Boundaries- controls or improvement tools

Discussion in 'Rebooting - Porn Addiction Recovery' started by Deleted Account, May 3, 2019.

  1. I was struggling with my u derstanding of what a boundary was and how it differed from a rule
    I am beginnig. To lean on the fact that other peopke do not have to respect your boundaries. YOU must respect your bou daries to have stability and structure and not chaos over the things that YOU DO CONTROL, your thoughts and actions
    Awedouble likes this.
  2. Oh yes that is hogh on my concern list

    I have made inquiries with a professional and will begin that part of this soon, and it is utterly unknown as I have no experience with it but I am excited to have more help to navigate with
  3. Honesty I agree! Both people should be honest about what they can and cant do. I wouldn't suggest a boundary to anyone that sets them up to fail or has a consequence the SO could never possibly follow through with. My only comment is that boundaries are highly effective tools but used poorly by uncommitted people they can almost do more harm then good. The PA gets trained quickly that it's just another recovery gimmick that holds no power the second he fails and the SO wont carry out the agreed consequence. I suppose he could be responsible for the consequence but if he doesn't follow through what's the escalated consequence and so on?

    It reminds me of a bumper sticker saying about laws "there is no law insignificant enough the police wont kill you to enforce". As boundries cascade into more boundaries serious consequences can never leave the table and when making one you have to start truly drawing the line in your mind and taking things to their logical conclusions. Then when these agreements are have to be prepared to follow through. For these reason I just like mentioning that boundaries are EXCELLENT but they are super serious and not something to just casually waltz into. @GhostWriter is the authority on boundaries IMO. I'm patiently waiting for him to jump in. :)
    need4realchg likes this.
  4. Queen_Of_Hearts_13

    Queen_Of_Hearts_13 Fapstronaut

    So @need4realchg told me to come over here.... I am quoting myself on another thread since it applies to boundaries and consequences and hope it helps!

    need4realchg likes this.
  5. @MisterDirection I hope I won’t be accused of patronizing, but @Queen_Of_Hearts_13 is a commenter i follow and highly respect; she has the unique perspective of both addict and SO.... ; I don’t know how she will respond but I know she’s legit and has done BOTH. plus she’s a professional— maybe a pm is a better place to ask but just wanted to recommend it.
    Queen_Of_Hearts_13 likes this.
  6. I have run acrcross her from time to time LOL

    I appreciate her advice always....i do say a prayer before I read her comments though, and I mean that only in jest.

    I have no real understanding of what experiences she has, but I can always go for a no nonesense no bullshit answer.

    I believe she applies the rigorous honesty to every interaction, and if you cant be honest with yourself what can you be.
  7. Queen_Of_Hearts_13

    Queen_Of_Hearts_13 Fapstronaut

    Yes, I am honest and I can be blunt but as an addict to self-harm who has worked recovery and has gone through recovery of anorexia and of PTSD from sexual traumas I can tell you that you will never grow unless you get honest and face what you have been running from. I am blunt because addicts need it, and I needed it way back when I was in treatment. I had no idea I was killing my body until someone showed me the science of what I was doing by restricting food. I was so deluded thinking that I wasn't doing any harm. It's the same with PA's sometimes they are so lost in the addiction they have no idea the harm they are causing themselves and those closest.

    but anyways, I do wish you luck in recovery and I do firmly believe that every addict on here can get better, it's just a matter of if they want it enough (I say that from experience and watching some addicts make it past 3 yr marks)
  8. Lol. I agree! I want her everywhere because i (selfishly) think it helps the conversation for us to hear someone who can communicate the SO vantage point instead of raging against the machine.. she does not have to take my side or any other, just communicating knowledgably is so helpful.

    I would say all folks have enough pain just deciding to come here. Keep updating me on what works and doesn’t.

    In one of my threads I talk about all the things and ways I tried to manage my addiction with my wife as the gatekeeper and it became exhausting. For us many of the stuff that is sometimes advocated (I call micromanaging the addiction) it did not work. That’s my contribution. I love my wife and she was a psychologist when I met her. Today she is an survivor.
    TryingHard2Change likes this.
  9. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Fapstronaut

    It seems you have a lot of resentment towards SOs, based on this and other posts I've seen from you. I dont know if this is from personal experience with your SO or you have this idea from reading from other SOs here, or what. And it really doesn't matter where it comes from, it matters that this is the attitude.

    PAs have caused a lot of damage to their significant others. They have broken their trust, made them feel worthless, manipulated them, and made them question their own instincts. Coming back from that can be a process, and it is a long one. They wont come back from it if the PA continues to act out, lie, hide things, and manipulate. SOs have a right to feel this way and a right to be vigilant. They have a right to hold their PA accountable and a right to question the things they say and do. Trust doesn't come back overnight. You have to earn that back, and part of that is agreeing to be held accountable by whatever means necessary. You are speaking in extremes when you talk about installing cameras and such, and that's unfair. The majority of SOs don't want to have that kind of control. They want to know that their PA isn't looking at P when he says he isn't, because his behavior up to that point has not been consistent with truth telling. She wants to know that he isn't MOing and stealing that intimacy from her. Continued lies and manipulation make it impossible to trust your words alone, so other measures must be taken. Would I install cameras if I felt my husband was bringing people into my home to act out, or leaving my children to their own devices while he spends hours in the bathroom wanking off? You bet your ass, I would. Fortunately that has not been the case for me, but it is for some.

    Bottom line, the PA doesn't get to determine how their SO handles her trauma and recovery. He caused it and has to earn the trust back by hard work both physically and emotionally. He doesn't get the right to tell the SO how she handles herself. What he should be doing is leaning in to any and all accountability to show he is serious about his own recovery and that alone does so much to help the SO in hers. He should be focusing on himself and not her, in that respect.

    It's pretty simple, either the PA is willing to do whatever it takes to get healthy and commit to recovery as well as the relationship, or he's not.

    If you haven't yet, I highly recommend watching the videos, Helping Her Heal, by Dr. Doug Weiss.
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
  10. Very true @EyesWideOpen! I have seen it. The most extreme agreements for accountability between SOs, to situations like mine where I am only accountable to myself (beside my sponsor and friends in SAA and God) for the most part and my wife barely checks in now and then to see how things are going (never asking specifics like sobriety date or anything).

    The PA does have to do whatever it takes to get better.... and he has to want to get better using whatever means necessary. @need4realchg, what I think you are worried about is this loss of control. Surrendering to an irrational vindictive SO, that could use that power to demand unreasonable things. Two wrongs don't make a right etc... Everyone will need to cross that bridge themselves and decide how much is too much, for you and for her. Your fear isn't unrealistic and her fears aren't either. It's a tight rope walk I wouldn't wish on my worst enemies.
  11. @EyesWideOpen

    I appreciate your lucid appeal and I feel I’m responding and respecting you. If you feel otherwise let’s talk directly.

    It’s with a little surprise that I read your initial comments but I assure you, I’m not resentful of My or any SO; I know this process is tough. I know it’s difficult to find support and I apologize for giving you the impression that I don’t already know that. I will need to dedicate today’s entry for this since it’s been falsely attributed to me a couple of times today.

    You may be surprised to learn that I have voraciously read your posts too...including a video by dr .weiss. That you posted. To be honest it had me spellbound. I did not disagree with much of what he says, I have personally visited with a protege of dr. Carnes as well and found he was more helpful for my wife than for me.

    Simply, I believe they show that there is more to recovery than just starving the addiction; and sanitizing the home. The post asks about boundaries. Most people reading have interpreted “what does the PA need to do now?” That’s one way to see it. If he’s living alone that’s probably the only way. But—- as a couple it is going to be more complicated.

    A few posts back @Max Fisher pointed out his willpower is stronger without porn filters than with them. He’s pointing out freedom is necessary for his personal willpower to grow. Would you say he’s delusional or that there is likely some truth to growing with limited freedoms—-ie order and new routine ?

    I gave the example and I agree it was extreme with cameras , but I didn’t make that up, there is user here who already said she was doing that. I am not trying to break the rules of the forum so I cannot name her, but I’m simply trying to show how extreme this “control” can be.

    Again I could cite Dr,Weiss who I have very few issues with but not in the context of this topic. Btw I absolutely loved his snarky remark on “get to know your inner asshole”. Brilliant! Lol. But I digress ....

    Here, I thought I quoted dr.weiss correctly already in this thread (If you disagree please let me know). He’s the one who described the danger of becoming the “parole officer.” I will go back and look for the exact minute on the video for you if you need—he is part of why micromanaging is not effectively growing the individual.

    I’m not saying you can’t get limited results micromanaging mind you—- but for me, that philosophy explains why a ex-pa can go many days and then suddenly relapse and we don’t understand. Their internal self-controls remained weakened. It’s what I’d call a “dry drunk.” No more substance abuse but the core, rotten root of the problem persists. (Again why I tend to see this problem more spiritual anyway).

    @Queen_Of_Hearts_13 shared the need for order , a new lifestyle a new routine. These things help ANY addiction ; this is how we make a new individual.

    Overall, I don’t have any quarrel with any of the points you raised either on how the PA needs to recover.

    But these things need to show up in the boundaries. Realistic is better than idealistic in my view. We don’t have to justify failure we simply have to build a winning franchise for success. An athlete develops not only their body physically but mentally. Boundaries that are one-dimensional fail at wholistic change.

    Starving the addiction is fine , but boundaries are MORE than just rules of stuff to not do. Intrinsically the focus of the new environment (as queenofhearts states) needs to also reflect who we ARE building. New habits, new routines, new ways of communicating , new bed times ,new diets, etc.

    Sorry to make it so long lol. Feels like I’m in back in class. Sorry!!!

    I DO welcome your input; please feel free to share !

    Deleted Account likes this.
  12. Every PA needs to own this line.

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