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Discussion in 'Accountability Partners' started by Paranimmita, Apr 28, 2020.
You don't need to be celibate to get enlightenment
I would disagree with that.
Maybe someone that is already "God-realized" or Enlighten could have sex without being affected. The question is why they would do that anyway. Ramakrishna offered to have sexual relations with his wife if she wishes, but she denied and said that she would devote her life for him in a spiritual way.
It seems people sometimes sell-a-bit to talk about being celibate, especially with NoFap perhaps due to its nature. People either do or don't at whatever stage in their life, it's another trap of making things absolute it seems.
Practically it seems a better question is to start with is it cause or effect?
Oh, I meant, according to the Theravada tradition, it is possible to achieve the first stage of realization -that is, becoming an Stream-Enterer- as a lay person, and not necessarily being celibate. One of the pre-requisites is to keep the 5 precepts (but not necessarily the 8 precepts). One of the 5 precepts allows having sex in a committed relationship. That's why I infere that being celibate is not absolutely necessary to attain (the first stage of) Enlightenment.
Sorry, I could not understand so well your statement. What is a trap?
Thanks for clarifying . I really admire people that can keep a relationship, it needs a lot of dedication for keeping yourself and your partner sane.
Wondering if anyone wants to have an accountability partner? I'm looking for someone to check in with every once and a while and share experiences, struggles, and tips. Let me know if your interested.
An absolute, in this case about celibacy as required for enlightenment. And again there's a question of cause or effect.
I believe that all serious spiritual masters that proclaimed to become enlighten practice celibacy. Ramashrishna, Budha, Jesus, Sri Aurobindo, Ramana Maharishi, and others.
But definitely is not for everybody. Everyone needs to have it owns experiences.
Hi @lamabear feel free to build a rapport with anyone in here and communicate with them through NoFap inbox. From time to time you can start posting here on a daily basis and then eventually you might find someone who is interested in your progress. Then this person can be your accountability partner if you would like to.
From time to time you may see that some people who step up to be an accountability partner may not be able to be consistent through the full length of the reboot. Which is why it can be helpful to post here on this thread from time to time so that whoever sees your post may encourage you for that moment and different people may rotate from time to time when it comes to posting here. In case if an accountability partner does not come online as often as they should be then it always best to touch base in here, if you are interested in rebooting with a Buddhist spin on it.
Also read the first post on this thread and it may get updated from time to time.
Here it is https://forum.nofap.com/index.php?threads/buddhist-accountability-thread.275188/
@supreme27 are you following Buddhism or are you interested in learning about Buddhism?
The reason why I ask is that this thread, whiles we do respect other religions is that this is specifically oriented towards Buddhism. There are plenty of other groups and threads on NoFap from different spiritual view points if you are interested. We may from time to time take teachings from other religions provided that they are compliant with Buddhist teachings. As in there are great teachings in these other religions and religious teachers outside of Buddhism. However the reason why this thread was made was to specifically focus on NoFap from a Buddhist point of view. Be well
I briefly read in this thread about the celibacy discussion whether that is necessary for enlightenment or not.
In Buddhism, to reach realisations, celibacy is not required. This applies to all forms of Buddhism - Theravada, Mahayana and Vajrayana. In Theravada one can reach the initial stages of realisations even whiles being a house holder such as Stream-entry, Once-returner or Non-returner. Before reaching the final stage of Foe-destroyer (Arahant) the desire for sense pleasures is fully let go of which also includes sex.
As for Mahayana and Vajrayana according to their doctrines and lineages they have recognised realised beings who were householders that lead non-celibate lives.
I don't fully get your point. To mention other spiritual master's names is not the same as showing their viewpoints.
Answering your question, I am learning a lot already, just with your first post gave me inspiration to not engage any more with entertainment. So I am very grateful. About if I am following Buddhism or not I can not answer that, depends on how you define to be a follower of Buddha, but that question just Buddha itself could answer you
Where does the monastics celibate monks fit in these groups? Usually, it is an individual choice inside each one of these groups? Sorry if it is a basic question, I don't know as much.
Following more closely to guidelines posted by Paranimmita on his first post, I am trying to be more aware of each thought that I have towards the opposite sex. Even though I am not practicing for a long time so strictly it is interesting to observe how my mind reacts. Today I attained an exam I notice that one girl was looking to me, unconsciously we crossed our eyes maybe 3 times and all the times I just looked down and chanted inwardly some Mantra, but my mind immediately started thinking all kinds of things, just could not let it go, enough to make me remember of it and write to you guys. My question is, usually how do you act in these situations? What is the right approach, if there is one?
At the very least, a Buddhist is one who has taken Refuge Vows. I am aware we can define followers/practitioners at the level of belief, practice and realisation. But for the sake of convenience and simplicity in everyday language one who is a Buddhist is one who has taken Refuge and does not engage in practices or thoughts that violate the Refuge Vows. This means one sees the Buddha as the supreme teacher who taught the excellent path to enlightenment. This implies that we do show respect and admire some of the good qualities in leaders of other religions or spiritual belief systems, but the one who has taken Refuge in Buddha is the one who is convinced that the Buddha stands above and beyond teachers of other paths. As for Refuge in Dhamma/Dharma this is one who considers the teachings given by Buddhas as the highest teachings. As for Refuge in Sangha this is one who considers the spiritual companionship with others who have taken Refuge (as in other Buddhists) as the highest of spiritual/religious relationships.
Its just that it is important for us to take this into heart. Because if we are joining this thread without commitment to the Refuge Vows at the very least then it is unfair given that accountability threads can accommodate a limited number of people. So if one had not even committed even to the Refuge vows and joins this thread then they are depriving the opportunity for another Buddhist who has sincerely taken Refuge as the very least to take part and benefit from this thread.
Monastic-lay status does not necessarily correlate to the Stages on the Path (Magga-Pala). For examples you can get lay people who may have reached Stream-entry, Once-returner or even Non-returner while there may be monastics who may have not even reached Stream-entry. Now based on this one might argue that what is the point of becoming a monastic if lay people can also reach the stages on the path. The reason for this is that whiles it is possible for lay people to reach these states, to reach them requires a lot of letting go. The more you let go the higher you go up in the stages of the path. When a monastic lifestyle is taken up with the right intention of renunciation it is meant to provide the mental culture of being able to easily let go. Therefore the role of monastic life is to facilitate the process of letting go.
I do deeply admire that you are doing NoFap whiles doing exams. However I do encourage you to focus on your exams where you can focus on NoFap later. If you feel NoFap is distracting you from your focus on exams and being an additional weight then feel free to let go temporarily and when the exams finish you can come back and focus on NoFap properly. It is good you have taken a step to end your PMO. However I also dont want that to impede your performance in your exams either. No pressure from ourside. Good luck with your exams.
You can try cue-exposure therapy. I did this for 50 odd days within my first 90 days of reboot. I have written some reflections which one can make use of when they see a trigger which can range from triggering thoughts of affection, romance to thoughts of lust. Here are some reflections which you can make use of. You wont need to use all of them. Just one single reflection when used properly with full understanding and appreciation should be powerful enough. I will share on the next two comments.
@Adam4Smith @a_new_chapter @pace4peace @Sh0e @MixerAwersome @lavalight147 @Phoenix87 @kammaSati @Gasti @janjijoni @Sebuktegin @pancabalani @Dromedary @sohei_1984 @Patrickio @nyanasami @supreme27 @lamabear @Upekkha
Hi folks hope all of you are well. What are you most recent struggles and challenges when is comes to overcoming PMO?
Today this early morning I felt empowered. This is because I was about to have a wet dream and I managed to dodge it fully. I know this wet dream will keep coming behind me boomeranging on nights when it can catch me. But I will keep my mind strong and promise to keep to my celibacy even in my dreams. Today was a great step in the right direction.
I did mention about cue-exposure therapy and how much I found it useful. In the next post are some reflections where you can pick one or even two in case if you encounter a trigger in the real world, they can be brought as a focus of contemplation.
@Adam4Smith @a_new_chapter @pace4peace @Sh0e @MixerAwersome @lavalight147 @Phoenix87 @kammaSati @Gasti @janjijoni @Sebuktegin @pancabalani @Dromedary @sohei_1984 @Patrickio @nyanasami @supreme27 @lamabear @Upekkha
BUDDHIST MIND-TRAINING EXERCISE FOR OVERCOMING LUST PART 1
Here is a pathway that I try to use as a daily contemplation to transform and renounce sexual desire. I typed this up in a word processor and I try to read through this every day to get my mind geared to keeping sexual urges to a minimum and to re-wire my brain according to the Buddhist way when it comes to letting go of sexual desire. It is still under development and still at the pilot level where I hope to keep making adjustments and improvements as I go along. What I have done here is to combine relevant aspects of the Noble 8Fold Path, 37 Factors Conducive to Englightenment (Bodhipaksadharma / Bodhapakkhiyadhamma) and Perfections (Paramita) and then used these aspects onto the framework of the 3Fold Training to set up a pathway in which Buddhists can go through from time to time to orient their minds away from sexual desire. In addition to the 3Fold Training framework, I included an additional Transformation section where I came across some methods which I couldn't fit into any of the categories within the 3Fold Training. I have made the different aspects of the teachings show how they can be used to counter sexual desire even though their overall use is not limited to this single aspect and they cover a wider depth and breadth. I have tried to relate the methods to more than one school of Buddhism, but if you come across some aspects which are not in line with your school of Buddhism then feel free to omit those aspects and make use of the rest of it. This can be done in isolation or in conjunction with cue-exposure therapy. I just wanted to make a systemic pathway of mind-training to overcome or reduce thoughts of lust which can be helpful for Theravada, Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhists. Even though I have used gender-specific terms, one can switch that to the gender which their sexual orientation is directed towards.
Please do note that the Perfections among the different Buddhist traditions can vary. Theravada has 10 Perfections. Mahayana has 6 Perfections but the Perfection of Wisdom further sub-divides into 4 different Paramitas. Bon recognizes Compassion as a Paramita too which is included in Theravada and Mahayana as a vital aspect of their teachings even though it is specifically not recognized as a Paramita. I have included Mudita in this pathway just for the completion of the Immeasurables / Sublime Abodes (Apramanas/Brahmaviharas).
When I typed this I did it with the intention to maintain complete celibacy in Monk Mode for the duration of my streak. Some of the mind-training rules here may put sex in a negative light. This was not to make sex look bad but rather it is to be used as an aspect of mind-training to maintain celibacy. As Buddhists, we do recognize the importance of sex and its role in healthy Buddhist relationships. It's just that this mind-training exercise I formulated for those who wish to maintain celibacy for their NoFap streak given that most of us are either on Hard Mode or Monk Mode in NoFap. To use the Buddhist term, this is about mind-training to maintain Brahmacharya.
Brahmacharya in Buddhism has some key important features
Full, complete, perfect, immaculate, faultless chastity/celibacy where there is no engagement in any type of sexual behavior in any shape or form and this includes the avoidance of self-stimulation (masturbation). The celibacy in Buddhism is meant to be practiced with body, speech, and mind.
Complete sensual restraint of the 6 sense bases where all objects that are received by the 6 sense bases are looked at with equanimity as part of the middle way by avoiding showing desire or aversion towards them (as desire and aversion are the two extremes which the Buddha rejected).
To show the Immeasurables/Sublime Abodes (Aparimana/Brahmavihara) to oneself and all sentient beings unconditionally without exception. These are Loving Kindness (Metta/Maitri), Compassion (Karuna), Altruistic Joy (Mudita) and Equanimity (Upekkha/Upeksha). The Brahmaviharas are an essential feature of the Brahmacharya in Buddhism.
Please feel free to give any feedback on suggestions for improvement as well as pointing out mistakes. The Buddha's words and the content in the Buddhist texts are perfect. The mistakes are mine.
Say a personal phrase in mind or in speech (eg. "may you experience the supreme bliss of Nirvana and be free from all suffering")
Don't reduce the importance of beings by looking at them through your own limited vision influenced by your own selfish desires. When a woman arises in front of you appreciate her importance as a human, a sentient being who has made its way through Samsara to be fortunate enough to live in a time where there is Dhamma/Dharma.
Do not judge women and consider them inferior to feel superior about yourself. Never judge pornstars, prostitutes and those who pose nude. That is a small aspect of their life, there is a lot more to them than what you see with your eyes. These are human beings who are capable of making use of the Dharma to become enlightened. Therefore do not judge. Judgment just leads to more lust and ego.
To see our defiled way of looking at women as Mara (the tempter), that attachment to our defiled way of looking at women's bodies influenced by our disturbing emotions. To take responsibility for our own defiled thoughts and not blame external circumstances.
If an image or scene of sex arises in the mind ………
see the female/girl/woman as a mother of yours and the male/man as a father of yours and imagine yourself as their child. Sexual activity is a form of suffering, and our mothers and father engaged in suffering to give this precious human birth to us. That it was this coming together of the mother and father that gave this precious human birth to us and we should be thankful for that. That our mothers and fathers have suffered for our wellbeing. That we should be grateful to our fathers and mothers and repay their kindness to them (and not to look at them as if they were sexual objects for our selfish desire).
see the female/girl/woman as a mother of Buddha (Maya) and the male/man as a father of Buddha (Suddhodhana) ……
then see the female/girl/woman as a wife of Bodhisattva (Princess Yasodhara) and the male/man as Prince Siddhartha or any other Bodhisattva ………
then see the female/girl/woman as a consort of Padhmasambhava (Mandarava and Yeshe Tsogyal) and the male/man as Padmasambhava
Therefore we should not look at those who have sex with lust, but instead with respect and reverence that they are bringing another sentient being from Samsara to human birth. Therefore to let go of lust towards and visions of sex.
Consider all females / girls / women as your sister, mother, aunt, daughter, you would not want to see your own sister, mother, aunt or daughter this way as sexual objects. Understand that this could be someone’s daughter, someone’s sister, someone’s mother or someone’s aunt. What if you were a brother to them? What if you were a son to them? What if you were their nephew? What if you were their father? Would you want to visualize her in lewd ways? Never.
All these females / girls / women have been our sisters in our past lives. But you won’t have sex with your sister. Therefore recognizing all women as our sisters we avoid having thoughts of sex related to women (our sisters), talking about having sex with women (our sisters), and not physically engaging in the sexual act with women (our sisters).
All these females / girls / women have been our mothers in our past lives. But you won’t have sex with your mother. Therefore recognizing all women as our mothers we avoid having thoughts of sex related to women (our mothers), talking about having sex with women (our mothers), and not physically engaging in the sexual act with women (our mothers).
All these females / girls / women have been our aunts in our past lives. But you won’t have sex with your aunt. Therefore recognizing all women as our aunts we avoid having thoughts of sex related to women (our aunts), talking about having sex with women (our aunts), and not physically engaging in the sexual act with women (our aunts).
All these females / girls / women have been our daughters in our past lives. But you won’t have sex with your daughter. Therefore recognizing all women as our daughters we avoid having thoughts of sex-related to women (our daughters), talking about having sex with women (our daughters), and not physically engaging in the sexual act with women (our daughters).
See all females / girls / women as human beings (and not as some object for your selfish desire) a human being that feels pain, feels hunger, bleeds, experiences suffering. You have no idea what she is going through
See all females / girls / women as your best friend that you unconditionally care for, they have also at some point in Samsara cared for you unconditionally so you would not want to degrade their importance by seeing them as sexual objects
See all females / girls / women as your doctor / nurse who cares for you and relieves you from your pain and disease
See all females / girls / women as Buddhists. To see them as those who have taken refuge in three jewels from the sufferings of Samsara. Imagine/visualise that they are devout Buddhists who come to temple and serve the monks and nuns taking part in the teachings and meditation in the monastery, prostrating to the shrine and monastics. See them as no different from lay Buddhist disciples of Buddha such as Sujatha (who fed milk rice to Siddhartha the Ascetic when he was on the brink of death), Visakha (who is considered to be the ideal role model for all lay Buddhist women and she was a mother to twenty children of her own), Amrapali (a courtesan who was a devout follower of Buddha)
See all females / girls / women as Buddhist nuns – imagine her with her hair shaven off and wearing yellow/orange/saffron/red/maroon/sky blue/grey/black nun’s / priestess’ robes (someone who should be treated with utmost respect and reverence – to have sexual feelings towards a Buddhist nun is a non-virtuous thought and an offense)
See all females / girls / women as your Teacher / Guru / Lama (the one that guides you from the sufferings of Samsara)
All these women have been our teachers in our past lives. But you won’t have sex with your teacher. Therefore recognising all women as our Teachers/Gurus/Lamas we avoid having thoughts of sex related to women (our teachers), talking about having sex with women (our teachers), and not physically engaging in the sexual act with women (our teachers).
Consider all females / girls / women as divine / deity / yidam /yoginis/ dakinis / khandros , once you accept that one is a deity you would not desecrate her by defiling her (sexually). See all females / girls / women as emanations of …….
Guanyin (the feminine deity of mercy)
Yeshe Tsogyal & Mandarava (consorts of Padmasambhava / Guru Rinpoche)
Maya (the mother of Gautama Buddha / Shakyamuni Buddha)
Tara (the mother of all Buddhas and Bodhisattvas)
Avalokitesvara / Chenrezig, the embodiment of the Four Immeasurables / Sublime Abodes of Loving-Kindness (Metta/Maitri), Compassion (Karuna), Altruistic Joy (Mudita) and Equanimity (Upeksha/Upekkha)
See that all females / girls / women have Tathagathagarbha (Buddha-Nature) and hence they are all potential future Buddhas
All these women have the Tathagathagarbha (Buddha Nature) which means that they are all future Buddhas. But you won’t have sexual feelings motivated by lust towards a Buddha as the Buddha is the figure of the utmost reverence and respect. Therefore recognizing all women as Buddhas we avoid having thoughts of sex-related to women (the Buddhas), talking about having sex with women (Buddhas), and not physically engaging in the sexual act with women (Buddhas).
See the primordial purity and wisdom of the feminine in all females / girls / women
To see that there is nothing dirty or filthy about the body or the sexiness of a woman, but it is your impure perception which makes them appear that way.
That divine beings in the heavenly desire abodes are far more attractive than the most beautiful and sexy woman on Earth in all the three times. Even the animal equivalents of the heavenly abodes are far more attractive than the human females in this realm.
The women which we are sexually attracted to have been animals in the past. But you consider to have sex with her but not with an animal. But there is no difference. Therefore to consider having thoughts of sex with a woman is no different from having thoughts of sex for animals.
You are a responsible Bodhisattva, and that if you waste time indulging in the desires towards women and their bodies then you will be distracted from Enlightenment and thereby you have failed Bodhicitta motivation. The result of failing in Bodhicitta means the sufferings of all sentient beings will continue to happen. After promising to become enlightened for the sake of all beings we should not foresake that. All these sentient beings have been our mothers, fathers, siblings, relations, best friends; those who have cared for us unconditionally at some point in Samsara. Therefore we owe them all. Therefore to waste time by indulging in sexual desire is equal to letting all sentient beings suffer by failing our Bodhicitta.
Loss of Bodhicitta – that loss of semen without the specific intention to make a child within a relationship is equal to the killing of millions of Bodhisattvas. Bodhicitta is a tantric codeword for semen, therefore the wasteful loss of semen (that is when it is not done to make a child), then this is loss of Bodhicitta. Throughout the ages, we have seen the various figures of Buddhism who have been celibate where they did not lose any white essence and see how this was one of the factors that led to their own liberation.
ETHICAL CONDUCT (SILA)
PERFECTION OF GENEROSITY (DANA PARAMITA)
Dana is a form of letting go – renunciation is letting go of attachment. But sexual desire works in the opposite gradient to this.
People usually go behind sex to seek their own pleasure rather than being motivated by generosity to give pleasure to others out of unselfish reasons. Therefore this is the opposite of Dana.
PERFECTION OF TRUTH/HONESTY (SACCA PARAMITA)
If you made a promise to yourself to be a Brahmachari then to uphold it fully as one needs to be true to one’s promise, even in the most difficult of times, even when it has its inconveniences
PERFECTION OF PATIENCE (KHANTI / KSANTI PARAMITA)
There are better rewards in the spiritual path which far excels the pleasures from sexual pleasure. These spiritual pleasures can be experienced only if we let go of worldly sensual pleasures such as sexual pleasure. Even though sexual pleasure is easily obtainable, we determine to let go of these immediate pleasures and develop patience to take the long road to ultimate liberation.
To have patience, that it is important to delay gratification and hold back. Good things comes to those who wait. To remember that this is not even about Brahmacharya, but to develop that mental attitude to let go of instant gratification and mundane pleasures to take the long road to ultimate happiness.
The reason why we renounce sensual desire today, so we can experience the benefits of renunciation tomorrow. Results take time to appear and therefore Patience (Khanti) is necessary.
PERFECTION OF ETHICAL DISCIPLINE (SILA PARAMITA)
Consider all females / girls / women as being girlfriends to their boyfriends, wives with their own husbands and therefore not to have sexual thoughts and let go of them or else this means you committed sexual misconduct / adultery and therefore broke the 3rd precept for lay Buddhists (“anyone who even looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart.” - Matthew 5:28)
Imagine that every day is an Uposatha (Observance Day) where the 8 Precepts are taken including the precept of absolute celibacy (Brahmacharya). When this precept taken you strongly determine not break it / violate it / taint it and uphold it. Imagine that every day is Uposatha which is observed on the days of the phases of the moon (new moon, first quarter or waxing moon, full moon, last quarter or waning moon).
Women want sex from you because they are unaware that sex leads to suffering. Had they not been under delusion (Moha) then they would see that sexual activity leads to suffering and would not want sex from anyone anymore. Therefore to have thoughts of having sex with them is sadistic and lacks compassion. They would be reluctant to have sex with you if they woke up from their delusions. Therefore to have sex with women is equal to making them suffer, and no one wants to suffer. The women would run away once they know that sex causes suffering. Therefore to have sexual desire towards them is the same as rape because had they truly came to their senses then they wouldn’t want it. One would not have sex with a girl who is intoxicated because she can’t consent whiles being intoxicated, otherwise this is rape. Women who want sex are also intoxicated by Moha (delusion) so to have sexual thoughts or have sex with a woman who wants sex from you is also rape and this is no different frommhaving sex with a girl who is intoxicated by drugs or alcohol. At least the effects of drugs and alcohol wear away with time, but the intoxication of delusions doesn’t and remain till one is enlightened.
continued in Part 2