Building bridges to feminist communities

Discussion in 'NoFap Technical Support and Feedback' started by bastion, Dec 27, 2015.

  1. bastion

    bastion Guest

    I think we are doing something right from women's perspective and an occasional support and a pat on the back from them would be freaking awesome. Perhaps we could learn a lot from each other. What do you guys say? Perhaps form an envoy of sorts? Stop the general hate, I'd say.
     
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  2. Ratty

    Ratty Fapstronaut

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    Is there a general hate?

    I understand what you are saying(porn is objectifying). But I do not see a point in attempting to "build a bridge." This is a support site/a place to share your journey as well as to give/receive help. There might be a lot to learn from a feminist community as far as feminist issues but they don't have much to learn from us to be honest.
     
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  3. bastion

    bastion Guest

    I think there's hate. I mean, feminism is often perceived or misperceived as "women are better" and that creates it, from our side.

    I think bridges are good. It's not about learning, really. It's about support and understanding each other. "We hear you" type of thing. Encouragement. Admitting that P industry is wrong, at least to us.
     
  4. Gekko

    Gekko Guest

    Nah, a lot of these feminists are female supremacists. You have literally nothing to learn from these feminists. Men have issues going on too, and they complete disguise them. Did you hear about the homelessness? There are 7,500 homeless shelter for women, and only 50 for men. And radical feminists are even paying to get rid of male shelters to make more space for women. The best thing you would do, is go egalitarian which truly means: equal rights.

    Even the name feminist, is pretty sexist itself. Especially now, third-wave feminists completely abolished and ruined the original motive from first and second-wave feminists.
     
  5. bastion

    bastion Guest

    "Nah, a lot of these feminists are female supremacists."
    Well, there you go. That hate I was talking about.

    They have a point with the P industry and we agree here. Wouldn't this equalize things and remove the need for feminism as it was envisioned.
     
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  6. Ratty

    Ratty Fapstronaut

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    I'm confused when you say there is hate. From which side, feminist communities or from NoFap members? From what i've seen there is not much talk of quitting PMO due to a feminist approach. There is, however, a thread I saw a couple of days ago of which discussed halting the slander of women on these forums. This is pretty much the closest thing to feminism I have seen on this forum unless you count people quitting PMO because it is unfair to their wife or significant other.

    Bridges are good. But they are not a necessity in this context. As far as understanding them, go ahead, but I doubt people want to learn about PMO addiction just as much as you would want to learn about an addiction that is completely foreign to your existence. Regarding them admitting that the P industry is wrong, it is a debated topic among feminists.

    (IMO)
     
  7. Ratty

    Ratty Fapstronaut

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    Anyways, I don't want this to spiral into an arguement and suggest that everyone not get butthurt. Try to remember what you come to this website for and don't "burn bridges" between people on this site. Everyone is going to have conflicting opinions.
     
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  8. Gekko

    Gekko Guest

    Well, yeah. Feminists are against the pornographic industry. Which is a good thing I guess, but they do solely for their own benefit being on a victim pedestal, and demonizing men. They have no sympathy for the male pornstars that have killed themselves. One bluntly stated that "My respect only goes out for the young, beautiful women." And was glad that the male pornstars killed themselve, because they were disgusting evil misogynists. Gladly dance and piss on their graves.
     
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  9. bastion

    bastion Guest

    "they do solely for their own benefit being on a victim pedestal, and demonizing men. "
    Oh come on. Solely?
    I don't know that for a fact. You're too absolute in your judgement. Perhaps they just see injustice done to their gender and that feels wrong on a deep level, which makes them "feminist". Of course some of them want to hurt men in return, which is well... demonizing. But I try to find the root cause of the entire feminism thing, not superficial effect, occasional hate of men from an occasional member.

    And nobody's burning anything. :) We're just talking amongst ourselves, respectfully I might add. Like philosophers on a... forum.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 2, 2016
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  10. Gekko

    Gekko Guest

    I am not going to stop you from you doing you. Be careful, don't just be a part feminism just because their anti-porn movement. That is a silly mistake. And it is just my opinion. And, I believe that women are more privileged than men, and they want more. I could state some privileges only afforded to women here, if you want me to. But yeah, egalitarian is the way to go.

    EDIT: I complete support your decision of being a feminist, but I am trying to give you some heads-up.
     
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  11. bastion

    bastion Guest

    I wouldn't do anything without a NoFap consensus and permission from the administrators and I urge everyone at NoFap to do the same. I am not sure if "women are more privileged than men", we as a society strive for neutrality and harmony, in law and in attitude. At least we should, I think. I hope.

    I am not a part of the feminist movement. That would be akin me going against me. Don't judge me too fast, because I try to "build a bridge". Be careful what you brand me as, my friend.

    Hard questions, I know.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 27, 2015
  12. Gekko

    Gekko Guest

    Sorry, I have mistaken you. I just despise feminism, even my mothers and sisters.
     
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  13. Oh boy, I have some thoughts about this. Forgive me in advance.

    Feminism = "the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men"

    The fight is for women's rights, the "end goal" is equality. However, many of the so-called "feminists" in today's societies are fighting far beyond the point of equality. Their fight is not for equality and their attitudes and hearts are not set on equality. These people should not be calling themselves feminists. They need to learn what the movement is actually about before they coin that phrase, and apparently they have not done so.

    I have no problem with the definition of feminism, nor do I have a problem with how it originated (I would hope nobody would have an issue with that... it was highly necessary for the time), but I have a major issue with the state it has grown into. Much of modern feminism has turned into empowering women to the point of being raised ABOVE men, which is ridiculous. I mean isn't that the exact mindset feminism was founded to change? The notion that anyone is greater or less than anyone else, simply based on gender?

    As @Gekko mentioned above, an overwhelmingly vast amount of "feminists" completely overlook the issues that men face in our society. I have literally read a feminist tell a man, in complete sincerity, that "if you're a straight, white man, you have no problems in life and aren't allowed to complain about anything." It's incredibly unfortunate that this has become the belief of so many people, as it is quite clearly insane and not even close to the kind of mindset feminism was founded on.

    As far as the OPs original question, I'm not sure I understand your reasoning for wanting to band the two specific groups together. I definitely concur with doing away with hate, as hate is never beneficial to anyone. However, I don't think disagreeing strongly with the ideals of modern feminism is considered hatred. I'm sure you had specific ideas in mind when you said "stop the hate," but (unfortunately) a lot of the statements Gekko has made here are just complete truth, not hatred. It's not a biased opinion based on prejudice... it's fact. These are the things a very large majority of the movement believe. It has evolved into something awful, in my opinion, and I think it's wise to shed light on that. It doesn't have to be done in hatred, of course, though, and that's not what I'm trying to do here.

    Anyway... I apologize for the crazy-lady rant. lol as you can see I have a lot of opinions on the subject.
     
  14. bastion

    bastion Guest

    "(unfortunately) a lot of the statements Gekko has made here are just complete truth, not hatred. It's not a biased opinion based on prejudice... it's fact. "

    Would you possibly elaborate on that?
    Is anything really "complete truth" with no grain of dissent? Perhaps we could find non-extremist feminist communities. I, personally, have read the encouraging post one GF made to the NoFappers and it amazed me how encouraging it felt. I think the benefits would outweight the idea to punish the feminists, in a sense, by ignoring them. That is the answer to "I'm not sure I understand your reasoning for wanting to band the two specific groups together.", from my perspective.
     
  15. Gekko

    Gekko Guest

    I don't know about you, but I can't sugarcoat feminism as the mass majority ARE extremists. They make those good feminists look bad, and almost all of them already converted to egalitarians. If you want to learn something from a female perspective, go to female egalitarians. The definition of egalitarians is much more broader for equality, instead of biased self-deluded female nonsense.
     
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  16. bastion

    bastion Guest

    Well, I'll explain my position more thoroughly. I'm trying to combat the extremist feminism's
    hate by placating, in a sense. It's a bigger thing. I'm trying to fix the conflict here. "Look, some of us are against the P industry, would you tone done the hate of all of men in general," miss extreme feminist. Why not try diplomacy, rather just ignoring and despising each other. I'm not saying NoFap despises anyone.

    The genders war. It's there, alright.
     
  17. Gekko

    Gekko Guest

    That won't work, I'm telling you. These women that still label themselves feminists in this day and age are ignorant as hell.. I get you are trying to be all sweet and want to change them. But, that's not going to happen. They're narcissistic, and egomaniacs and always think the world owes them something. I won't argue with you anymore.
     
  18. bastion

    bastion Guest

    You are so hateful. Give peace a chance, man. :)
     
  19. I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Who here is ignoring feminists? Obviously there are extremists in every group of people, and I think I spoke to that a bit, but perhaps not enough. I think I was relatively clear though on the fact that feminism itself, by definition, is not a problem, and I can't imagine any sane minded person disagreeing with that. It's good stuff, feminism, but it's evolved into something it was never meant to be.

    Feel free to disagree, but I definitely believe that there is such a thing as absolute truth with no grain of dissent. I don't hate feminists... but the ideals I've seen expressed by... I'd say easily 98% of feminists I've met are very ignorant and, ironically, very sexist.

    To elaborate, as you requested....

    Quote from Gekko: "Men have issues going on too, and they complete disguise them. Did you hear about the homelessness? There are 7,500 homeless shelter for women, and only 50 for men."

    This is a fact, plain and simple, not an opinion based on any kind of prejudice. There are other facts similar to this one that I have found disturbing.

    For one (rather controversial) example: abortion. Personally, I believe that men should have an equal say in abortion, as it is the termination of a life that is quite literally half theirs. Yes, it's the woman's body, but the "thing" (baby) that is being "terminated" literally belongs, equally, 50/50, to the man and to the woman. So if feminists are really fighting for equality, why aren't they bothered by that?

    Other examples include the one I've already given: statements like "if you're a straight, white male you have no problems in life." I can't even count or relay how many times I've heard statements like that made, in complete sincerity, and I have heard/read them within the context of the entire conversation, and they are usually unwarranted. I've also heard feminists go so far as to say that women should be paid MORE than men. Like what in the heck?? That's the exact thing feminism was founded to abolish! Ridiculous.

    Another quote from Gekko: "They have no sympathy for the male pornstars that have killed themselves. One bluntly stated that "My respect only goes out for the young, beautiful women." And was glad that the male pornstars killed themselve, because they were disgusting evil misogynists." I can't speak to whether or not this is opinion or fact, because I haven't read/watched/heard the particular story he's referring to, but it was phrased as a direct quote, which leads me to believe that isn't some random opinion he's developed because of his prejudices. It came from somewhere, and that has to be acknowledged.

    Obviously generalizations are never beneficial. I hope it's implied in everything I say, anywhere (here, in real life, etc.) that I'm not making an overarching statement of truth about every feminist in existence. But a vast majority of them, I can say, believe some, if not all, of the disturbing things I've described.
     
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  20. bastion

    bastion Guest

    Thank you for the elaboration. :)

    That 2%, though. I think it's worth reaching out for. Maybe its bigger than we think.
     

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