Can human imperfections be used as a good argument for God's existence?

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  1. Brokenman123

    Brokenman123 Fapstronaut

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    Can the imperfections in human nature be used as a good argument for God's existence? If human beings are imperfect then how do we know we're imperfect? How does one identify if someone or something is imperfect? How do we distinguish between what is perfect and what is imperfect? Doesn't imperfection imply or suggest that there is an objective standard of perfection out there that humans have fallen short of and haven't attained? Don't our flaws suggest that there is someone or something out there who is flawless that we should try to be like?
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
  2. tweeby

    tweeby Banned

    You mean if a man who has never seen his reflection trying to understand what he looks like by asking those around him. How will he KNOW those around him are not lying?
     
  3. tweeby

    tweeby Banned

    BTW this thread kinda reminds me of a story I was once told, I may not have mentioned it before but it goes like this. . .

    Once upon a time there was a boy and a monk.

    Hey, did you meet _____, the cute little 5 year old boy? He comes here every Sunday with his parents and he's full of mischief; he's always inspecting a new part of this temple. So the monk began asking him some questions, "Hey, where did you come from?"

    After some thought, the boy answered, "I came from home!"

    Quickly he added, "Where did you come from before that?"

    He looked curious enough but threw his hands up and told him, "I don't know."

    Every Sunday he came and every Sunday the monk would ask, "Hey, where did you come from?" And then he would continue to ask him, "Where did you come from before that?"

    He's a smart boy. After many Sundays, the monk got him to continue back to the point where he answered, "I came from mommy's belly."

    So then the monk asked him, "Where were you before you were in mommy's belly?" Ha ha ha . . . this stumped him.

    The first few times, he looked confused, curious . . . as if he was really thinking about it, and he would confess, "I don't know."

    Of course the monk kept at it. . . and the next few Sundays, he could see the boy was trying to avoid him, ha ha ha. When the monk confronted him the last time and asked, "Where were you before you were in your mommy's belly?"

    The boy stared at monk with big enlarged eyes and screamed with his fist pumped held high in the air, "NOOOOOOO!!!!!!" Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!!! . . . .

    -The End
     
  4. Brokenman123

    Brokenman123 Fapstronaut

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    Kinda but in the case of humans somehow we just know we're imperfect. Where does that sense come from? No other creature other than humans are self aware of this fact.
     
    Saskia Simone likes this.
  5. tweeby

    tweeby Banned

    How do you KNOW this? Who told you.
     
  6. Brokenman123

    Brokenman123 Fapstronaut

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    Well I know this because I have an internal sense that myself and this sense is shared by the rest of humanity... This sense that we as humans are flawed and that we live in a flawed, imperfect world. Even atheists share this sense that humans are imperfect and flawed. I can compare myself to a someone who is better than me and see that I have work to do in to become a better person and then that person can do the same with another person and so on. We know we live in an imperfect world and that we ourselves are imperfect because we can compare ourselves and the world we live in to a certain standard ie. the best possible human or world that can exist.
     
  7. tweeby

    tweeby Banned

    Who told you your internal sense is shared by the rest of humanity?
     
  8. Brokenman123

    Brokenman123 Fapstronaut

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    Well most other people I know admit that they are not perfect and even the existence of this site shows that other humans know that they are not perfect and are fallible beings subject to the whims of their own deviant desires and they have come here to become a better or more perfect version of themselves. I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who thinks that they are totally perfect.
     
    Saskia Simone likes this.
  9. tweeby

    tweeby Banned

    What was your previous account on nofap called?
     
  10. Brokenman123

    Brokenman123 Fapstronaut

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    @tweeby?
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
    tweeby likes this.
  11. Lions

    Lions Fapstronaut

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    We are actually perfect. Human beings are created almost perfect , look for example most promising medical treatment are coming from the human body it's self(the creating cells which attack only cancer cells which are prior that taken from the body itself, and stem cell therapy which is basically act of taking the cells from the body itself.)
     
  12. Brokenman123

    Brokenman123 Fapstronaut

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    No we're not. Name one person who is perfect in all areas of their life whether physically, emotionally, spiritually etc. It's imperfections that make humans stand out directly in contrast to God. If humans are so perfect to begin with then why do people even get cancer in the first place?
     
  13. elevate

    elevate Fapstronaut

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    Perfection is boring. Imagine a perfect world with perfect people. What would anyone make music about? What would people strive for? What would people even do?

    There wouldn't even be free will or any individual thoughts / desires because that would mean there's not one guideline for perfection. Everyone would think 1 fruit / song / painting / etc is what's perfect and not any other.

    We would be robots listening to auto tuned music.
     
  14. Brokenman123

    Brokenman123 Fapstronaut

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    I'm not arguing for or against perfection or imperfection and actually no one knows what a perfect world would look like, it might be boring but no one really knows. If God exists and He creates a perfect world, it might not be boring, so no one can say for sure that a perfect world would be boring. And there are some good imperfections in this world and some terrible imperfections that make living in a perfect world so appealing sometimes.
     
  15. Lions

    Lions Fapstronaut

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    Maybe just because the is road bumpy , it's destination doesn't mean that isn't worth of the trip ,it is .
     
  16. Brokenman123

    Brokenman123 Fapstronaut

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    Humans are not perfect, my friend, far from it. And could you explain yourself better? Are you trying to say that ultimately everything is perfect? And if you're going to use cancer as an example then I hope you do realize that most people die from cancer and they don't recover so where's the ultimate perfection in that?
     
  17. Lions

    Lions Fapstronaut

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    In my eyes, every single road leads to perfect state of ours creation, since I think that we are evolutionary closer God every moment, and since this is transitional period yes, we are far from perfect , but it does not mean that if we are not momentarily perfect , that we aren't completely perfect. So until cancer cure is found ( look at this)
     
  18. Brokenman123

    Brokenman123 Fapstronaut

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    In some respects some of us are becoming more imperfect as the days go by, so not everyone is on a path to a perfect state of creation like you claim.
     
  19. Lions

    Lions Fapstronaut

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    The choices are there , but the decision is absolutely yours.
     
  20. Fightyourlowerself

    Fightyourlowerself Fapstronaut

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    Brokenman123 - where have you been all my life? You have such interesting threads :)

    My understanding of this is as follows:

    No really - Yes you have imperfections e.g. say you have little integrity so now imagine a being who has complete and absolute integrity - you could say that being is god however even this is flawed because my understanding is that the perfection of god is beyond even our human understanding of perfection (I.e. our minds can't perceive how perfect god is).

    On a separate note why do you need anything like this to prove existence of god? does the design argument not do it for you?

    You use a measuring gauge - in this case the prophets of god (e.g. Abraham, Moses, the Messiah Jesus, Muhammad peace and blessings upon them all). Prophets are sinless human beings created by god to be the example for mankind and guide people to worship one god. Your perfection (or lack of) is compared to them - can your forgiveness, truthfulness etc match theirs?
     

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