Can Masturbation help YOU rewire? An insight into my plan.

Discussion in 'Rebooting - Porn Addiction Recovery' started by iwontfail67, Feb 24, 2022.

  1. iwontfail67

    iwontfail67 Fapstronaut

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    First of all, I know that this subject will probably cause a lot of backlash, so I’m saying this now - i am not trying to encourage Masturbation and I am not trying to justify a relapse. I am trying to reach out to the people who realise that porn is the problem and that the WAY you masturbate is the problem, and teaching yourself to associate sexual pleasure in a normal, “vanilla” way can actually speed up the recovery process and prime you for real sexual experiences in the future. Quick history, I’ve been death gripping to extreme escalating porn over the last 10+ years (I’m 22) and have never really taught myself that pleasure is the goal.

    I’ve conditioned myself to feel that pleasure will always be there (from death grip) so escalating in a porn addiction is the way to receive actual pleasure. I’ve basically taught myself that death grip is the way to go. And that porn is the real pleasure, and not sexual stimulation, since that’s always going to be there right? Now clearly, this is a very bad view on things. Recently during not using porn streaks (3 weeks no PMO, and then 1 MO per week) I have tried to masturbate without porn and teach myself that pleasure is the goal, not porn. Gentle touch, gentle stimulation, lube, and pleasure are the goal. And after doing this once per week for 3 weeks, I literally felt the most healed than I ever had in 3 years of nofap attempts.

    The problem was when I eventually broke my promise and masturbated consecutive days, which eventually lead back to porn. So clearly, I have to keep a strict routine on my masturbation and show my brain that masturbation with porn is simply no longer an option. It will take manual willpower, but it can always be done. So my strategy now is this. 4 weeks+ NO PMO. I will then masturbate after that when I naturally receive an erection, either morning wood or spontaneous real fantasy. Nothing porn influenced. That should remind my brain just how euphoric sexual stimulation feels. Then I will wait a week and completely disregard all urges to masturbate back to back. After a week I’ll MO again. Wait another week, ect.

    Now I believe that if I can do this consistently and teach myself delayed gratification by waiting that week, and not forcing it (since as a porn addict the goal wasn’t to masturbate, the goal was the watch porn, and you can’t do that without MO), I’m teaching my brain that this “vanilla” pleasure is amazing, self fulfilling, FIRST PERSON, and pleasurable. And then my dopamine receptors would be much more responsive to natural queues and natural thoughts that aim to provide ME with sexual pleasure that makes ME feel like a man. Eventually, when I have rewired myself back to where something as simple as sexual stimulation is what produces the most dopamine, I can replace those once per week MOs with real sex, which will then increase the dopamine ten fold. Now you’re probably thinking, “but this will always be a gateway back to porn”. Well, not if you hold yourself accountable and teach yourself that any urge to go back to porn should be chucked in the bin. Physiologically, it makes sense. Refuse those neurones, and they’ll die out. But you have to be careful to not break your promise, but by that point you’ll probably feel way too much like a real man to disrespect yourself like that.

    This is the way I’m going to approach it, and I’ve had great results in the past, but the Coolidge effect always catches up to me. I plan to use that weekly sexual urges as aggression and fuel in my gym workouts since I’m competing soon. I need to hold myself accountable and understand that part of recovering is teaching myself to not always release whenever I’m aroused, cos that can lead me back down to a huge relapse (just fresh off a 3 week relapse after having a 5 week rewiring phase that showed me how incredible life without porn feels like) Any tips or comments or advice would be greatly appreciated!

    I am not a nofap purist and I know that abstaining from masturbation doesn’t actually do anything if you end up relapsing with porn after 200 day. It’s much better to teach yourself to experience real sexual stimulation in a natural setting that eventually develops into real sex, then completely removing masturbation only to relapse and waste your streak. Mind you, this strategy doesn’t work if you end up binging or giving yourself a cheat day to use porn. This is probably a lot harder than actual nofap since at least on nofap your libido is just dead. But with this, you’re retraining your libido to be linked with real, natural and pleasurable feelings instead of loneliness, porn, anxiety, all the shit stuff.

    Think about it… it might be time to rethink the whole “I haven’t masturbated in 300 days but I feel no benefits and my libido is dead” or “the flatline lasts 8 months”. No shit, cos you’ve told your body that it doesn’t need sexual stuff anymore, so it shuts down. Rewire, don’t shut down.
     
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  2. Negan©

    Negan© Fapstronaut

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    Where to begin man...its the human mind which tricks the human into believing any hypothesis it wants the human to believe..
    Look , its not about teaching your dick or your brain that sexual pleasure is the goal not extreme stimulation via deathgrip and P. (. Im a drathgripper too lol )..
    An 11 year old boy starts feeling sexual attraction and sensations down there at such a young age , a man doesnt need to be taught where hes supposed to put it in , he doesnt know why the sight of breasts seems attractive... have you thought why?..coz its WIRED PERMANENTLY to act that way...what does disturb its wiring is P , excessive stimulation , deathgrip and extreme fetishes...and once you quit everything , its got no way left but to resort to the original wiring...
    Theres absolutely absofukkinlutely no way you can abstain yourself , till you no longer felt your libido and sexual attraction...yes people may experience it as a part of their nofap journey or flatline , but that doesnt mean they've lost their libido and need to teach their brain ...
    So thats my opinion...

    BUT another thing i would like to say is that CONSISTENCY is the key..if M without P makes you more consistent and keeps you on the path then definitely go for it..BUT im of the opinion that the fastest progress is achieved through CONSISTENT HARDMODE...a second option may be CONSISTENT ABSTINENCE FROM PORN ..
    And where did you read " ive been 300 days nofap but i can't feel my libido "..
    If its some actual source i'd like to know about it , and id also like to say that it may have been a case of flatline ( which would end one day or the other , the addiction phase is mostly in years so the recovery phase is consequently not that short..a rule of thumb is 2 months for every year of porn addiction...say i have had an addiction for 10 years..my full recovery time is approx is 20 months , that is 600 days..it may take less time than this , much less , but definitely not longer ...during this period one may experience on amd off flatline, surges and purges in energy levels , mood swings , anger , fatigue and etc..but there will be improvement , im seeing it , im feeling it . , and most people here have more than 10 years on the addiction side, so you can calculate the numbers ) ..

    And id also like to urge you to read sime threads in the SUCCESS STORIES section where you can read plenty of stories where people recovered from PIED , PMO ADDICTION AND MANY AILMENTS OF SUCH SORTS THROUGH HARDMODE...
    THANK you..
     
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  3. engelman

    engelman Fapstronaut

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    Well, I agree with you @iwontfail67 to some extent. On one hand I don' think either hardcore mode forever is the only way to get over this, but on the other hand, "scheduling" M on a weekly basis ... I'm sure that's going to fail sooner or later.

    1. We NEED a long streak to really heal, to calm down our overexcitement/hypersexualized minds.
    2. With giving you permission to M once a week and then using willpower to abstain is doing nothing for your healing. Your brain is not really learning anything. Sooner or later you'll have an argument with someone, an sleepless night, a hard day at work or something ... and you'll be back to P in no time. Scheduling M + willpower never works.
    3. M is something I decide to do, not something I need to do.


    Though I do believe I still can do M from time to time. Not scheduled, but when I feel really like it. But I don't feel like it as often as I used to because I taught myself how to get long-lasting pleasure from other more proud, rewarding and healthier sources.
     
  4. iwontfail67

    iwontfail67 Fapstronaut

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    The whole point of this is to make sure that there aren't any slip ups. I've been there and about with the 90+ no MO streaks multiple times, and after a certain amount of time, abstaining from MO just seems pointless. The whole point for me is to relearn that sexual stimulation by itself actually feels great and should be encouraged.

    But if its done with porn, it ruins the whole point of this recovery process. So actually, giving myself permission to M once a week is doing everything for my healing because realistically, I am teaching myself to rewire to actual pleasure that doesn't involve porn. I am aiming to disassociate sexual stimulation with porn. Saying willpower never works is implying that everyone is weak minded. Willpower definitely works once you've reached that point where you know that this process WILL work, all you gotta do is do it. I suffered from OCD for half my life, so maybe my willpower and mindset is much stronger than most, but personally, I believe willpower can do anything.
     
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  5. iwontfail67

    iwontfail67 Fapstronaut

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    I appreciate the comment, but this all sounds like a bit of nofap propaganda to me. I think you've read into what I am saying a little too literally. I'm not teaching myself how to do what is biologically natural to me, I am basically rewiring my brain to be more than satisfied with natural stimulation, instead of jumping straight to the deathgrip/porn combo where pleasure through stimulation isn't the actual goal. And yes, it is well known that if you don't use your libido after a long time, it can essentially go into hibernation. Many porn recovery youtube coaches have brought this up aswell.

    Why I believe constant hard mode is dangerous is because imagine going 200 days hardmode, and then you relapse to porn. And then again. And again. Thats 200 days gone down the drain. But what if you go 1-2 months hardmode, and then slowly teach reteach your brain that stimulation and pleasure can actually be received WITHOUT porn. And what if your brain quickly gets reminded just how amazing that stuff actually feels and makes you feel like a sexual being again, BUT instead of releasing every second, you wait a week or so and hold that energy in? And release it again under the same natural circumstances. After a while your brain won't associate porn with pleasure because it will be too busy enjoying the self fulfilling first person pleasure that you are receiving. You'll start to feel much better about yourself, fuelling with sexual desire, but holding it in and making yourself a much more sexually desirable being. Lift some weights with that added libido boost. You'll feel incredible about yourself, and your brain will realise how good you feel, and make note of it.

    You are essentially positively reinforcing every self fulfilling feeling that porn has taken away from you. The more I write this, the more logical and real my plan actually sounds. If you take a second to remove the nofap biased for a minute and actually look at this logically, it makes complete sense. Now, obviously if nofap is the thing for you then go and do it! Maybe you feel that complete abstinence is the best thing for you, but at the end of the day we are sexual beings, and the hole point of nofap should be to rewire back to where we can experience sexual stimulation without porn hanging around, and I think my plan will prime anyone for that endgame goal.


    (I'm not new to nofap at all, and I know all the recourses. Had multiple 90+ day streaks of no PMO, and I've concluded that adding masturbation as a way of positively reinforcing pleasure without porn is a no brainer)

    EDIT - I saw you posted something similar a couple days ago so you've got a natural biased towards it. Everyone's situation is different. I understand the views of no MO, but I think people like you need to understand that MO isn't the problem. MO with P is the problem. And teaching yourself to experience MO and O without P and positively reinforcing that will only benefit someone. It is well known that Nofap takes no MO a little bit too religiously, so maybe try and see things with a bit of an open mind and realise that there are huge benefits from MO if its done in a strictly correct way. Willpower must be strong enough.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2022
  6. GottaBFree

    GottaBFree Fapstronaut

    No. I don’t need to read the plan. That’s the addiction talking. It always has an excuse. Good luck peeling back the onion of layered lies we tell ourselves.
     
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  7. Aod Dhan

    Aod Dhan Fapstronaut

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    No, it's not down the drain. We slip and fall and make mistakes in life. That doesn't nullify all the time you spent in success! This is damaged thinking, or "stinking" thinking.
    Also, sex should be a result of a relationship, not a relationship as a result of sex. We have it backwards. Our porn drenched minds are telling us that we "need" sex. So we try to find a partner who attracts us sexually so that we can fulfill our "sexual needs". I would argue that this is also a form of masturbation.
    A far healthier approach in my humble opinion is to simply allow the sex to happen naturally as a result of a relationship turning more intimate, with the primary motive being a desire to be with a person because you really like this person as a person, not just an object for sexual pleasure.
     
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  8. engelman

    engelman Fapstronaut

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    willpower is a useful short-term tool for fighting the temptation at some points in the recovery process, but willpower ends up running out sooner or later.

    By doing M once a week subconsciously you're teaching your brain you can do M more often than it's needed even if it's not needed at all. First, calm down your higher-than-normal libido and then, do M when you really really really feel like it. One can't know about his real sexual impulses if he goes from doing PMO frequently to M once a week. A quiet long streak is needed for that to happen, I think.

    But if that works for you ... go ahead!
     
  9. Re: this excerpt.

    The way someone uses M is not so much of the issue, although it is bad.

    The heart of the problem is the overstimulation of the neurotransmitter dopamine.

    Dopamine releases opioids into the brain for the feeling of euphoria.

    This starts destroying the brain and the body because of the way it hoards neurological resources, all for seeking pleasure, rather than doing meaningful things.

    You could use PMO once a week, once a year or even less: it doesn't matter. It always addicts people and destroys them.

    Understand also that when guys say that their "libido is dead", it is in comparison to the hyperactive state of the first reboot and/or the heightened anxiety levels they are recovering from.

    Nobody's libido is actually dead, they just feel flatlined.

    But honestly, flatlining is where it's at. Because when a guy has rebooted so much that he's flatlined out, what comes with that is a lot of life progress. Usually guys that are flatlined have improved their income or net worth, relationships, hobbies and many other things. They don't need that kind of energy anymore because of their discipline they have developed through this process.
     
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  10. engelman

    engelman Fapstronaut

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    Dopamine is actually needed in order to learn, improve, etc. It's a kind of goal-setting neurotransmitter and it's great we have that mechanism. Because our brain works with that system of rewards. Dopamine DOES NOT destroy our brain. I've been PMOing for the last 30 years of my life, even several times a day and I'm perfectly fine and I'm more than glad with my successes in life. The problem is ... what M is rewarding us for. When we do M too often, our brain rewards us for doing nothing, for not achieving or learning anything new. And when we keep "rewarding ourselves" for doing nothing ... why bother to really set higher long-term goals or learn something new in our lives? That's bad, not the dopamine high itself.
     
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  11. beaverreaver

    beaverreaver Fapstronaut

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    I'm always interested to hear new ideas, but this one I've heard already many times. Did you do 300 days of PMO and you can now say there was no benefits? Then lets' talk about what else might cause your troubles in life. Is it your life situation and so on.

    Give yourself a permission to masturbate if you want to. You don't need our validation for that. For many it's easier to give up porn first, and masturbation later if needed. So many here say that masturbation without porn is useless. I feel the same way. In 9 years I've gone back to masturbation hundred times to realize that it doesn't give me what I want. Fifty times I've gone back thinking that meaby I need to masturbate to feel happy. When ever I feel that way I try remember my old friend. Year after I introduced him to nofap, he told me he gave up because it's easier that way - no more relapse ever. Man always finds a way to go around the most difficult task.
     
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  12. TheRebuild

    TheRebuild Fapstronaut

    It's an interesting idea, I'd just be very cautious. It's like having a drink problem and allowing yourself 1 pint a week. Sooner or later you're going to have another.
     
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  13. Renee

    Renee Fapstronaut

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    I agree and would like someone to give more information on m for pleasure
     
  14. engelman

    engelman Fapstronaut

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    Or it's like having a problem with junk food and eating at home a self-made pizza once a week ;)
    Or like replacing bingewatching series all day long by only watching a film once a week.

    PM and M are not exactly the same. The only problem with M is that you can easily "escalate" to PM if you do it too often and haven't got the right mindset.
     
  15. iwontfail67

    iwontfail67 Fapstronaut

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    If you didn't read the plan then you don't realise how this is literally the opposite of the addiction talking. :emoji_laughing::emoji_laughing:
     
  16. iwontfail67

    iwontfail67 Fapstronaut

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    See, I posted this exact post on r/pornfree and all I got was people telling me how logical and true this method of recovery is. So there are very clear difference of opinions with nofap and pornfree. I expected alot of backlash becausse I know alot of people think masturbation is the main problem, but if you look at it rationally you might actually realise that masturbation done right can be extrememly beneficial for someone when recovering from porn. IF it is done right. If it isnt done right, it wont work at all. This isn't for "nofap beginners". This is for people who have been around long enough through all the relapses you realise that porn is the true problem, and sexual stimulation is actually the true goal, in a proper and natural way that has no links to porn whatsoever.
     
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  17. OhWhenThe

    OhWhenThe Fapstronaut

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    This is the main part I disagree with and is a common misconception flouted by those who haven't managed to stay the course.

    Nofap doesn't kill your libido, it actually repairs it. Yes it's true that you'll experience a complete loss of sex drive at some point but this is temporary and a necessary part of the process. It may take a month, two months, three, six, whatever but at some point it will end, at which point you will now have the fully functioning libido of a healthy person. Unfortunately most rebooters freak out at this part of the process and buy into the "use it or lose it" myth but what they don't understand is that the libido they think they have is only being propped up by their porn and masturbation habits, once you take those away you're left with the truth. On nofap your body doesn't shut your libido down because you've told it that it doesn't need sexual stuff anymore, it's actually the complete opposite. It's your body telling YOU that it doesn't want sexual arousal anymore, think of it as your brain's safety mechanism, it's making it easy for you by shutting down your libido and not bombarding you with urges, it's telling you to just let it be and do nothing.
     
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  18. beaverreaver

    beaverreaver Fapstronaut

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    How do you know it's not the addiction talking if you haven't overcome your addiction yet?

    You wrote about this same plan here two years ago. Between now and then many have written the same ideas, I reckon mostly to avoid the burden of what we call NoFap. How has it worked for you since? How long have you been porn free with this plan?


    If you can't do the easy version, and you haven't been successful with the harder version, then why are you still trying to do the harder one? Also, nofap doesn't equal dead libido. Flatline is not forever. If your flatline lasts over 8 months you might have to focus on something else than sex for a while. Depression and other issues cause low libido as well. These cases are rare, and we don't know their whole story. I've experienced flatline because I was stuck in my life. I thought NoFap would cure it all.

    I would love to hear more about this plan, but you need to give something more. Give results, or new ideas. Don't just come to tell that people who don't support NoFap agrees with you. NoFap isn't exactly against masturbation. Most of the members just have seen that they use masturbation in an unhealthy way. No one officially has said that masturbation itself is bad. If you find it easier to let go of porn this way, then that's the best way for you. But you don't seem to go anywhere, you said it yourself. You still go back to using porn even with this masterplan.

    This problem goes deeper than just the movement of hand. Do you masturbate when you're lonely? Do you need it on Friday nights? Do you have issues with loneliness or lack romance in your life? How's your sex life? Do you allow yourself to masturbate because it's easier than facing underlying emotions? Questions need to be asked. Self-reflection is needed. This journey isn't about you and your hand, it's you and your mind against each other.

    My point is this. This is old news for me and for you too. Take baby steps. Try to give up porn first. Then masturbation if you want to. But give up something. For me the key was caffeine. I failed at my streak for over five years. After giving up caffeine it became easier. Caffeine is a stimulant and for me it really did the job. Masturbation was my pacifier. Streaks got even longer after I focused less on finding the magic pill and just doing what's necessary.
     
  19. op_jack

    op_jack Fapstronaut

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    @iwontfail67 I think you should start looking up some sources outside of nofap for your no PMO/no P argument. You are mostly going to get biased nofap hard mode propaganda here. I'm right with you on that no MO becomes pointless at some point. After doing a streak of hard mode of about 110 days I started looking at some sources outside of nofap from people that have actual expertise in the subject (doctors/sexual coaches etc.) I haven't found one knowledgable source that says doing hard mode beyond a streak to reset is healthy, unless you're aiming to fix a particular problem such as pied. Everyone who actually has a job in the (sexual) health industry seems to agree that porn is bad, masturbation in moderation is healthy, and if you're going to do hard mode it should be with a specific goal/healing in mind. Your post about learning to rewire your brain to enjoy pleasure without porn is literally what these people are advising. Do not listen to the biased people on this site both positive and negative, look up some actual credible sources.
     
  20. iwontfail67

    iwontfail67 Fapstronaut

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    Yeah I completely expected to have the majority of people disagree. It's only the people who have been through hard mode and realise that its not actually the one and only definitive answer that might actually appreciate this post. I know the nofappers are taking this to heart because theyve spent all this time convincing themselves that no PMO is the answer, that they don't realise that MO done in a proper way can speed up their recovery like crazy. To each their own.
     

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