Chastity

Discussion in 'Rebooting - Porn Addiction Recovery' started by Spirit lyte, Dec 2, 2017.

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  1. Spirit lyte

    Spirit lyte Fapstronaut

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    I know nofap is not about chastity, but I’m wondering what people’s thoughts are towards chastity devices and their helpfulness in helping you achieving no PMO’s?
     
  2. A chastity cage for nofap would be beyond pathetic.

    Mentally strong people are able to create a mental system to prevent PMOing.

    Mentally weak people would need a physical system to prevent themselves from PMOing.

    Nofap is about improving yourself mentally, not pretending you are some uncontrollable dog all the time. If you need a cage to prevent PMOing, you are missing the point of Nofap, which is strengthening the mind.

    Now, if you wanted to use one for roleplaying, that would be awesome.
     
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  3. Davidphd1866

    Davidphd1866 Fapstronaut

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    Spirit, I think they MAY have a role. I differ from AuraQ's opinion. Part of why we are addicted is that we ALL have been weak.

    I have some experience with chastity devices. So, if you'd like to know more, please shoot me a private note. These things are obviously controversial......so I think neither you NOR I wish to get riled up with others......
     
  4. Crash95

    Crash95 Fapstronaut

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    @Spirit lyte you have to be aware that you need to wear it 24/7 that it really would work. The thing is that you will destroy your spongy body on the long run. The reason for that is that the penis recovers at night meaning you got around 10-20 erections every night while sleeping to maintain sexually function. With chasity getting hard is not longer possible at night. That means that you will get impotent and can`t have sex anymore. So be really sure what you trying to do here.
    I think it`s no way to archieve a PMO free life with a chasity it solves the cause but not the problem which is your mind.
     
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  5. Davidphd1866

    Davidphd1866 Fapstronaut

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    Crash is correct. Ideally you'd wear in the day but remove when you sleep. But that requires another layer of discipline. A diligent key holder could help. But you pretty much need to be living with them.

    So DO ask carefully what you want to accomplish.
     
  6. NoFap and PMO is all happening up there in your head. We think of it as abstinence of masturbation when it's the abstinence of porn and sexual stimulation to recover the mind from the artificial effects of pornography and high-speed internet. Anything physical, and I mean anything physical that's helping you with abstinence is purely your training wheels, the magic happens when you act on or don't act on things solely with mental strength and your mindset. Mindset is important, going 100 days without changing your mindset won't do much, but making progress 1 day at a time by actually trying to improve yourself will. Good luck, my friend.
     
  7. JamesD

    JamesD Fapstronaut

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    I tried this for a while. I think it only really works if you do it with a partner or possibly accountability partner. Otherwise it ends up as just another fetish bouncing round your head. That is, it needs to be seen as a long term solution.

    I'd be interested if you keep us updated.
     
  8. Purity of Speech

    Purity of Speech Fapstronaut

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    i would want to disagree with the majority here and try to make a case for such devices. i should add that i have very limited experience with such methods and cannot recall any useful effect.
    the reason i would say it may be worth a try is that a lot of crime is dependent on opportunity. i believe, i have read that it's one of the two most important causes for criminal activity. similarly, the so called 20-second rule states that just making something a little bit more difficult to do [takes 20 seconds than right away] will dramatically reduce an activity. it is widely agreed that one of the greatest problems with withdrawal from dependencies of the type we're talking about is harder than that of other substances because of the inherent availability. one of the biggest tools in any heroin addicts withdrawal is his avoiding of people & places associated with consumption. that just isn't possible in our cases.
    to me, this is in type not different to installing a content blocker on your system. some would argue that you should be strong. ok, great. but isn't it more important to be realistic? i would say it's a matter of whether it works and it's great to try many things to find one that helps, even if for a while.
    i would also imagine that such devices are cause ED is a myth. the people most heavily invested in using them are using them for the exactly opposite purpose and they are intimately connected on these issues. and they wear them for very long periods continuously. with a quick google, i couldn't find a credible recorded case of ED from a chastity device. i would be open to being corrected on this one, though.
     
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  9. Davidphd1866

    Davidphd1866 Fapstronaut

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    Dear Purity,

    As a long term user of such devices I can assure you that your logic is absolutely correct. On ALL of your points.

    So true is your comment about "crimes of opportunity" that on multiple occasions I declined sex because it was inconvenient to remove device.
     
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  10. Purity of Speech

    Purity of Speech Fapstronaut

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    thanks, david, would you care to tell either us or me [pm] a bit more on good practices and insights you gained along the way? i'd be interested to try this myself...
     
  11. DemonSemen

    DemonSemen Fapstronaut

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    Negative. Mental resolve alone does not stop addiction. If it did this website would hav 10 members rather than thousands. Mental resolve/willpower is a finite resource. It runs out.

    Devices have their place as a temporary measure. Ultimately you have to fix whatever is causing the addiction.
     
  12. Davidphd1866

    Davidphd1866 Fapstronaut

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    Happily! I will give a short overall set of comments here, but some questions may be best done in an individual conversation. Feel free to ping me in that fashion for any detail you wish to have. I believe the chastity tube is an invaluable aid in the nofap journey--despite its alternative use as a "sex aid". I love the irony of it.

    First, you touched on a very important aspect: "male chastity" (the practice) is by FAR more effective, enjoyable and simple if you have a dedicated partner to help. (The "Keyholder") Almost universally couples who participate together report a far deeper and more intimate connection. That said, doing it solo is not difficult either. It's just that the partner takes it to a completely higher level.

    Second, hygiene is critical. Having your penis covered requires attention to bathing well beyond the regular showers. But this hygiene often requires removal......THAT is the opportunity to masturbate.....It's where most of us "fall". Having a keyholder helps a lot here.

    Third, some vigorous activities are more difficult while wearing one. Bicycle riding, for example. I always remove mine when riding.

    Fourth, there is SOME debate on the device's impacts on erectile function. Overwhelmingly, though, experienced users report that there are no deleterious effects to the ability to attain and maintain an erection.

    Fifth, proper fit is essential and unfortunately often requires a costly trial and error to get right. Almost everyone who uses chastity devices seriously end up owning more than one device. The metal types are more well ventilated and make hygiene easier, but their weight can make them more cumbersome to wear and are more expensive. Plastic ones are easier to buy/fit but usually require a "wet" lubricant to wear comfortably on a daily basis. Hygiene is vastly more important with the plastic, but they are (I feel) more comfortable to wear. Plus, plastic looks more like a medical device than a "BDSM" tool.

    Lastly, the deterrent to masturbating is immense. Thus, very effective.

    Again, I am happy to discuss off-line if I can be of more help.
     
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  13. Davidphd1866

    Davidphd1866 Fapstronaut

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    And I vigorously disagree with those who shun such an item as a "crutch". Like DemonSemen says, if willpower was all it took, this website would hardly exist. We are (many of us) here precisely BECAUSE our addiction has exceeded our willpower ability. Porn blockers.......chastity devices......forums.....are all TOOLS to assist us. The important thing to recognize is that you use the RIGHT tool for the RIGHT time and place.

    So male chastity tubes MAY be the right tool, they may not be. It depends on the user and their addiction. Arguing about their existence is like arguing about the existence of a screwdriver.

    David
     
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  14. Purity of Speech

    Purity of Speech Fapstronaut

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    thank you so much, david,
    that is an excellent introduction and it gives so much more weight to a position to have someone around with actual experience.
     
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  15. Davidphd1866

    Davidphd1866 Fapstronaut

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    I am very glad to help. I tried to be generally helpful. But by all means give me a private ping if you want more detail. I can provide a lot more if needed.

    Good luck out there! We are all suffering, so getting and receiving the help from others is key!
     
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  16. I've been using a chastity device myself to aid with PMO and I do not think it is beyond pathetic as some others suggest. I also don't think its a habit I need to rid myself of, as someone recently suggested to me. After having been on this site for a day and encountering negativity it seems as if there are some extremists on this site that take things a bit too far when expressing their opinions.
     
  17. Davidphd1866

    Davidphd1866 Fapstronaut

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    Amen! I find chastity a very useful tool.
     
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  18. Purity of Speech

    Purity of Speech Fapstronaut

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    i agree with you on chastity devices & i also believe that it's irresponsible for some of our friends here to come out so strong against a tool that is basically harmless but may just save somebody's life. in my opinion, you don't have to be cool, you just have to get the job done.
    at the same time, i like the forum format for ppl being able to just speak their minds, also unedited. if somebody goes over board, the other can & should reply. we're a group. whoever comes after can make up their own minds.
    personally, i would prefer we don't change radicalness or even spontaneous reactions to thoughtful ones but just remove the stigma to changing one's mind. i said 'friends (here)' above not facetiously: i think it's great that someone comes out with a strong position; gives you sth to think & respond to... just makes you smarter...
     
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  19. Davidphd1866

    Davidphd1866 Fapstronaut

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    Fantastic post. Perfect attitude Purity. There is no doubt you will succeed. I'm going to call upon you for future encouragement I hope.
     
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  20. frumtap

    frumtap New Fapstronaut

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    I think statistically, it's likely that this is a bad idea, but it does require some thought and evaluation of your motivations. I've encountered people who are desperate to control porn addiction so desperation should be respected too.

    Let's discuss some major use-cases for a chastity device applied to a male subject:

    1) To prevent erection and masturbation to increase submission and arousal;
    2) As a means to control and humiliate outside of a sexual context;
    3) To prevent erection and masturbation to achieve acetic benefits or self-improvement.

    The internet abounds with examples of case 1, where partners or friends engage in trading keys as part of a sub/dom or master/slave fetish, or as a distinct fetish in it own right. It can even be enjoyed alone, but for the fundamental purposes of arousal.

    I have known instances of case 2 where parents force teenage boys to wear chastity devices to assert control over their natural impulse to masturbate, that control being as much through psychology, invasion and humiliation as by physical means.

    Indeed monks throughout history have used various devices to cause discomfort on erection intended to make impure thoughts more unpleasant, which, for a non-masochist may well work, but a non-masochist wouldn't voluntarily engage in the activity so this fits into one of the use-cases mentioned, depending on the particular motivations of the subject.

    In the case of female chastity devices there is also a use-case around rape prevention and, historically, protection of virginity. I expect many pseudo-historical sources like legends, stories, literature and cartoons fail to record accurately the reality or frequency of this use-case.

    And this brings us to use-case 3, self-improvement. First off, you need to be very clear that you are not actually enjoying a case 1 masquerading as a case 3. If you have submissive or masochistic tendencies then there will be a very blurry line between the two, irrespective of whether other people are involved in the use of your chastity device. If you choose to use a chastity device for self-improvement you may just be complicating the issue by feeding a fetish interest, either new or longstanding, and this will make it almost impossible to give up masturbation for any length of time.

    Here are the major disadvantages and misconceptions about chastity devices for people who have no personal experience of them:

    1) Any chastity device can be removed without the key. The male nethers are very squashy and disobedient. This is a good thing, possibly evolutionary, because it means any impact in that area is more likely to move the reproductive equipment around instead of causing severe trauma. This makes it difficult to attach a device there. Most 'trapped-ball' devices are simply a metal ring around the scrotum, big enough to allow testes to pass through individually, but not back out together when the device is fully assembled. A tube attaches to encase the penis and this reduces the diameter of the escape route. However because the penis and both testes usually pass through this ring, it is often possible to liberate the penis thus creating more room for the testes to pop out even though it won't be comfortable to do so. Of course, complete removal is not required for masturbation to occur, masturbation can occur with removal of only the penis or stimulation can be caused by inserting items into the tube, or simply shaking it in various ways. There are some designs that involve anchoring the penis through a piercing, which may prevent liberation of the penis, but not other stimulation. In short, chastity devices are not secure and do not prevent viewing pornography, masturbation or orgasm;

    2) Chastity devices can be uncomfortable to wear, hence their appeal to masochists;

    3) Chastity devices require supervision in a relationship with a dominant, master, or accountability buddy. This relationship will be intimate and may require supervision while bathing and psychological control and punishment for misbehaviour such as masturbation attempts, despite that such attempts are encouraged by the fetish. It is unlikely that a purely non-sexual accountability relationship involving chastity devices could be achieved given the overwhelmingly intimate and fetish-oriented nature of the activity.

    4) Chastity devices focus you on your genitalia. It may be a much better solution to focus away from your genitalia, and to choose underwear, activities, and thought patterns that downplay the importance and reduce the occurrence of genital stimulation. This will allow days to pass without thoughts of genital stimulation, whereas a chastity device will constantly stimulate the genitalia and the thought processes that promote masturbation;

    5) Chastity devices are socially difficult if you engage in sport or have cause to be undressed with others in a non-sexual context. Explaining the presence of the chastity device will be involved, and not explaining it will lead others to draw a random conclusion about your motivations. This can interfere with the non-sexual relationships you have with colleagues, teammates and acquaintances. The notion of being 'caught' wearing a chastity device is a common masochistic humiliation fetish, so if you feel that you would be okay with people knowing you wear a chastity device, be certain that this is not simply a facet of the fetish. Either way complications are possible when an uninitiated person sees your chastity device.

    6) Chastity devices increase the risk of masturbation once removed, because of both physical stimulation and fetish arousal. The removal of the chastity device may be necessary if it causes significant discomfort and the likelihood of masturbation at that time is high.

    Advantages of chastity devices:

    1) For short-term prevention of masturbation where the subject is cooperative, this can work. For example, when working from home for a day or two, I will wear a chastity device because it makes masturbation more complex and deliberate. Though I am aware I can ejaculate in the chastity device, when added to my motivation not to masturbate, it does place a barrier between immediate and thoughtless lapses of control and can help me get through a few days without masturbating where there is elevated risk. However the disadvantages are still present, and the fetish aspect of the activity threatens to rear its ugly head now and again, so the need for mental discipline cannot be understated. It shifts the required discipline away from 'Do not touch' to 'Do not fantasise', thereby exercising a slightly different discipline which can give me an advantage. In short it can work if you understand the limitations and know that there is a fetish potential lurking there.

    2) As a fetish on its own this is great to explore, and if you have another person to do it with you then you can skip the porn and masturbation and enjoy shared orgasm.

    I disagree that there is a discipline problem with using a chastity device to prevent masturbation, simply for the reason that it doesn't really prevent masturbation at all. If you can navigate the pitfalls of using a chastity device for use-case 3 then that also takes significant discipline simply because there are so many disadvantages. In this way it's a bit like someone who chooses not to have chocolate in their pantry to avoid eating it. This is more sensible than filling the pantry with chocolate, and doesn't indicate a lack of discipline as long as a there is choice in the matter: it's just about which strategy you choose.

    If you have carefully and honestly thought through the use of a chastity device, and you are comfortable with the fact that there is probably a fetish aspect to it, then it becomes just a tool that you can use. If you are truly desperate to prevent masturbation, and can't make it to a healthy place with porn, masturbation and orgasm addiction, then this is one tool you can consider, notwithstanding the many disadvantages it carries. Fundamentally though it's not going to work long term unless you also educate yourself about porn addiction and work toward a healthier psychology around arousal and the frequency and method of orgasm.
     

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