Christian and not against masturbation

What's the definition of sodomy?

 

The word masturbation is not found in the bible. Just as the word homosexual is not found in the bible. But by description you know what it is talking about when it says don't let a man lay with a man as with a woman.

Sexual perversion of all kinds are covered under the word for fornication which in the greek is porneia ... curiously the word from which we derive Porn.

The principles outlined by Timeon are correct. Any sexual acts between unmarried couples are sinful. However, as alluded to earlier even acts of perversion can occur within married. Hence oral and anal intercourse are sinful even in marriage.

Leviticus 15:16-18 has some interesting things to unpackaged. Where semen is termed seed of copulation in the KJV and would make the persons coming into contact with it unclean. ... or even their garments.

Everything prohibited is not mentioned in the Bible. So it would be wrong to teach that it is now ok to partake in CGI porn because it does not involve actual people. We rely on the scriptures and the Holy Spirit to guide us in our actions.

 

Where is this specified? (Or, from what do you draw this conclusion?)

What do you make, then, of God telling Peter, “Do not call anything unclean that God has made clean”?

 

Sodomy is oral or anal intercourse.

On the topic of definitions... it is good to know them. For example... many Christians would not be able to tell you the distinctions between witchcraft, devination, necromancy and sorcery. Many people thus engage in them without even knowing. This is why we have to study God's word.

 

The reference to Peters vision of the unclean animals coming from heaven does not give doctrine on marital or sexual practices. It was in reference to the fact that Peter considered the Gentiles unclean. But God as Jesus Christ has now opened the way to holiness for the Gentiles as well.

 

The context of Peter's vision is setting the stage for the first Gentile conversion... that of Cornelius and those around him who were Gentiles.

 

Where is this definition in scripture? What I can find in scripture on Sodom and Gomorrah points to attempted gang rape, mob violence, and turning their backs on strangers and the needy among them. Ezekiel wrote, "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me."

Right...and you're saying that a man who has sex with a man is unclean. But if that man has accepted Jesus he is made clean through him. Why are you calling unclean that which God has made clean?

 

You said it better than me there. There's nothing wrong with mutual masturbating in a committed relationship. It doesn't matter what the definition is really, it's how you personally interpret the word.

I don't think it does. There appear to be references to oral sex in Song of Solomon anyway.

 

Please look up the old sodomy laws. Oral sex had always been interpreted as sodomy because it is a perversion. You cannot just make up a new meaning for a word. As for allusions in the Song of Solomon about oral sex, that book has both an actual and symbolic meaning. In the actual sense it is a poem between a bridegroom and a bride ... no where does it say they were ever married or participated in any sexual acts because of course sex before marriage is a sin. Also there are several dreams in the poem making it difficult for many interpreters because it is not clear where the dreams stop or begin. The poetic language of this book is very difficult to interpret. But nothing whatsoever should be taken from it that would have contradicted the law of God handed down through Moses which were in effect at that time.

God sanctifies sinners not sin. When a person accepts Christ, He is reborn into the Kingdom of God and that person is then expected to follow the LORDs commandments out of obedience. For all Christians this does not all takes place overnight. Learning to live a holy life takes time. If you were a witcraft-worker before accepting Christ, you need to stop once you do. If you were a thief and a liar... stop stealing and lying. It is all the same.

 

More on the Song of Solomon / Song of Songs

Song of Solomon 5:2
I sleep, but my heart waketh: it is the voice of my beloved that knocketh, saying, Open to me, my sister, my love, my dove, my undefiled: for my head is filled with dew, and my locks with the drops of the night.

Note it says "I sleep but my heart waketh"... which makes it likely that Song of Songs 5:3-7 are all descriptions of a Dream.

The poem in the Song of Songs has a phrase which repeats throughout the length.
Song of Solomon 2:7
I charge you, O ye daughters of Jerusalem, by the roes, and by the hinds of the field, that ye stir not up, nor awake my love, till he please.

Song of Solomon 3:5
I charge you, O ye daughters of Jerusalem, by the roes, and by the hinds of the field, that ye stir not up, nor awake my love, till he please.

Song of Solomon 5:8
I charge you, O daughters of Jerusalem, if ye find my beloved, that ye tell him, that I am sick of love.

Song of Solomon 8:4
I charge you, O daughters of Jerusalem, that ye stir not up, nor awake my love, until he please.

This is saying that the poem is one describing a longing to consummate the love that they have in full intimacy but this has not yet occurred. A bridegroom longs to be with his bride as Christ longs to be united to His Church (congregation/ assembly). The language is symbolic / poetic and it should in no way be taken as endorsement of perverse acts of a sexual nature. The chaste nature of the relationship is conveyed by the bridegroom terming the bride his 'sister' Song of Solomon 4:9 ; 4:10 ; 4:12 ; 5:1 & 5:2.

God bless you.

 

I would also like to see some Scripture references that support the notion that oral sex is sinful. What about touching your spouse? Touching how? With your fingers or with your tongue? Is touching your spouse's body with your tongue forbidden? Again, I would like to see the Scriptures "forbid" this.
Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
Hebrews 13:4
I am sure that the Lord would be pleased to see you have a "romping good time" with your wife!!!
Some things are plain common sense to me, and I agree that it is not wise or healthy to stick anything down a person's anus! However, licking your wife's clitoris is one of the most wonderful things you can do to her, and that just plainly is a "no-brainer"!

 

The results of unnatural stimulation
From a practical standpoint we know that overstimulation of the male genitals via M can reap death. This is why we term it the “death-grip” which is one of the causes of PIED. A female is no different. Many women who over stimulate that area can find themselves incapable of being pleasured through natural intercourse.


Protecting innocence
In order to protect the innocence of the readers, the Bible does not go into explicit details on sexual issues. It is not a manual on sex or science or medicine thought there be sex, science and medicine in its pages. It also instructs in the passage below that it is sinful to discuss certain topics in detail.

Ephesians 5:11-13 King James Version (KJV)
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

Biblical principles
Nevertheless the Bible provides us with accounts of incest, rape, adultery and fornication so that we can learn from the mistakes of our ancestors. Saying that there is no specific Bible verse that prohibits something is not the approach that Christians should take. Instead we derive from the Holy Spirit and biblical principles those behaviours that are permissible and those that are not.

Saying that the marriage bed is undefiled (Hebrews 13:4) cannot be taken as an endorsement of sexually perverse acts. Keeping Ephesians 5:12 in mind, there are many fetishes and acts performed in the world that are patently repugnant. Even some forms of sexual fantasies and role-playing can constitute a form of spiritual adultery.

Is it reasonable to conclude that oral sex is acceptable?
Given the prohibitions on washings and cleaning in the Mosiac law (inclusive of male and female discharges), issues (flowing) of blood and such like all of which made a person unclean: is it reasonable to conclude that God finds acceptable the placing of the mouth in areas where body fluids and excreta are to be encountered?

Would you like me to go into Baal Peor and the scandal of the gymnasia?
God bless you.

 

A compilation of quotations on homosexual acts, pederasty and other perverse acts etc. by the early church fathers. http://www.bible.ca/H-homosexuality.htm

In the previous posts I am referencing 'oral sex' according to the definition below:
o·ral sex
ˈôrəl,ˈōrəl seks/
noun

1. sexual activity in which the genitals of one partner are stimulated by the mouth of the other; fellatio or cunnilingus.

 

Technically, it is, in the right translation. LOL. I'll show the verse, but I am not open to argue or debate religion.

1 Corinthians 6:9
(ESV) Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,

 

This is an issue that I struggle with. After completing 13 months of monk mode last August I decided to go back to masturbation. I have still kept my no porn resolve. Whether it is acceptable to God or not is not scriptural because there is nothing in the scripture that does specifically forbid it. What I have found though is:

- masturbation feels wrong. The Holy Spirit part of me, when I ask it, gives me a feeling that I get that it's not right. That's just the feeling I get and there is nothing scriptural that backs that up
- the more I do it the harder it is to control. When I resumed it I thought once a month but it does tend to be 2-3 times a week and escalates.
- I do it when I'm bored/stressed and not to release sexual tension. If anything sexual tension gets worse when masturbating compared to when I've been abstaining.

In terms of scripture, it depends on interpretation. There is definitely scripture that talks about flesh desires, which we can argue is what masturbation is. It does nothing to bring us closer to God, it is purely to satisfy our own body's desires. On that basis in terms of scriptural backup, these are the pieces of scripture that stand out to me.

It seems that Paul had a lot to say to the Galations about this:

In Paul's list of sins, "Fornication" is "porneia" in Greek. Different translations translate this word differently. The Greek word porneia is actually a very rare Greek word and doesn't specifically include masturbation as there was no equivalent in the ancient Greek.

This does come up briefly again in 1 Tessalonians:

And again in James:

In terms of "cleanliness", we do have these to draw scriptures to draw on:

Leviticus does forbid a lot of things as "unclean". Some critics do say that the Old Testament is outdated but Jesus later then said:

Reading Jesus's words here, what makes things unclean are things that come with evil intention. Once again, those list of things don't specifically forbid masturbation (although that word "porneia" comes up again).

So I can't see anything that is scriptural that specifically forbids masturbation (and we do have to be careful not to interpret God's word to suit our own agendas which is sinful in itself). Ecumenically speaking there is division on the issue as well. The obvious ideal situation is that sex is a gift from God to be shared between a husband and his wife. Whilst no church groups that I'm aware of actively encourage masturbation, some church groups can see a purpose to masturbation to help manage urges whilst finding a spouse (which is probably less sinful than sex outside marriage which is expressly forbidden) whilst other groups, such as the RC church, say that masturbation is always forbidden. Use of porn/fantasy is definitely sinful as the scriptures tell us.

I currently have given it up for Lent. I am personally finding that it's helping me come closer to God as I am asking him for help a lot more, which kind of is telling me that it keeps me further apart from God and is therefore not good for me. I think that all we can do is pray to God and ask the Holy Spirit to guide us.

PS: in answer to your question, you can masturbate without lust filled fantasies but you certainly aren't thinking of God during it!

 

True masturbation is not on the bible. God sanctified sex as between a two married couples (man and woman). Satan has also perverted and manipulated what sex and marriage as we all know now. God did not create our sex organs so that we can pleasure ourselves. It is for marriage and to be "fruitful and multiply." Masturbation is a selfish act for the purpose of self gratification. In the context of marriage, the person masturbating themself is not fulfilling their spouse's needs. Therefore masturbation is a selfish act and thus...does not result in loving their spouse. You have to understand that Love gives. Hence the famous verse, "God so loved the world, that he gave..."
Also understand that selfishness is why people fight. The 4th book of James says that.

The bible does not have to say, "don't do this or don't do that" on many things even to adapt to our modern world, because the bible is there to provide the truth. As the bible says, "the word was God" and also said, that Jesus "is the way the truth and the life." Anything beyond what the truth says, is a lie. And satan is the father of lies

 

Yes this is true. The modern translations do use the word homosexual. But I meant this in the sense that homosexual is actually a fairly modern term (19th century)... usually taken to mean one (though this is incorrect usage) who is exclusively attracted to the same gender. However, in the ancient world many of the men would have been by current definitions (bisexual). Pederasty was also somewhat normative in Greek and Roman culture. The Greek word asenokoites (G730) is speaking to the act itself (men with men) rather than what people self identify as. The KJV translated this as effeminate which in the language of their day would have conveyed exactly what we understand today (homosexual) but would by no means have excluded a 'masculine' man engaging in the same acts. God bless.

 

I think it is also important to point out that temptation is not sin and there has been a growing recognition that although a person may be predisposed to be tempted in a certain area that he or she would not automatically be excluded from Christian fellowship. But as Christians we would be called not to act on these selfish fleshly desires as with any other sinful temptation... gambling... lust... idolatry etc.

 

I just don't feel good when I do it so I just want to stop anyways. Believe the bible or not we all still know it's a bad habit that we should stop. Just ask yourself this do you honestly feel better after masturbating?

 

But what were those laws based on? What is their context? These laws came about because people made them what they wanted, which, incidentally, you pointed out the flawed-ness of doing when you said,

???!!!! What? Missed that class in sex ed! What are you basing this claim on?

No, the reason we call it a "death grip" is because after dying the muscles tense up in rigor mortis, making it very difficult to remove objects from a corpse's hands. The term spread from there into common parlance to mean a very strong grip. Who dies from squeezing their junk too hard?

Aren't you presuming the motivations of God here? What are you basing this on?

Ok, so I'm supposed to sh*t in a hole 40 paces from my house, too, right? Toilets are not acceptable to God by that logic.
Worse, you're still holding yourself under the law. Paul would say you've cursed yourself! Jesus taught his disciples to look beyond the precept to get to the principle, otherwise it's like being a legalistic Pharisee. Have you not read? Have you not heard?

Yeah, and those translations were largely done in homophobic times in homophobic societies like America in the 40s and 80s.

Sometimes, yes.
Have you ever taken the time to consider just how cool it is that you were designed to feel intense pleasure, that the stuff coming out of you contains the DNA equivalent of 1500 terabytes of data, all perfectly programmed in spiral helixes with wiggling tails, and that masturbation (in moderation) can help improve their health? Or to think about the chemical processes that fire up your skin from your touch up through the nerves to your brain? Or even, to think good thoughts about yourself after, to feel sexy, or comfortable naked (the way we were created, before shame), to know you have a penis, and that penises aren't bad? (Or vagina, and vaginas aren't bad?)
It is really easy to see the bad stuff when you're telling yourself how you're bad for watching porn or you hate yourself or how even entertaining the idea is somehow evil. But you were not created for shame, you were created for love. And that fact is reflected in your physiology.
So go ahead: wack it and cum hard and think, "I'm so cool - I am fearfully and wonderfully made, I like me."