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Creepiness

Discussion in 'Loneliness' started by bastion, Dec 27, 2015.

  1. dsareph

    dsareph Guest

    Transparency, honesty. Creeps aggressively stare at women from across the room, but don't go up and talk to her. Non-creeps might look at her a bit, but go and initiate a conversation as soon as they can. Trying to simplify this into Alphas and Betas really won't get you anywhere, it's a matter of communication and little else.

    There's something to be said for not jumping the gun, either. Writing her a love letter when you barely know her will make her uncomfortable, because it implies a level of intimacy that she has not consented to.

    The pitfall is voyeurism. The less involved she is in your attempt to pursue her, the more uncomfortable she will feel because she has no idea what you're thinking and it's easy to assume the worst.
     
    silverlukas likes this.
  2. The only way to not be a creep is...to be a creep. It's a paradox. But it's the truth.
     
    silverlukas likes this.
  3. True-Self

    True-Self Fapstronaut

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    I think that creepiness or lack there of is related to attraction. She thought you were being creepy because she is not attracted to you. People give other people much more leeway if they are attracted to them. If a girl that you are not attracted to keeps trying to make contact with you she is so "annoying" (creepy) but if a girl you are attracted to is doing the same you would totally be into it.
     
  4. forgiveovercome

    forgiveovercome Fapstronaut

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    I haven read every single response here but I feel like I have a good understanding in this area.

    If you want to look into the theory of this read The Mystery Method, but not The Game (The Game has many triggers and is more story than theory).

    Yeah creepiness is definately influenced by attraction, but also by natural progression.

    Attraction: If an overweight, super old, woman who smells strongly of throw up was hiding in your bushes watching you - how would you feel about that? Would you feel good about that? Would you feel good about her?

    Ok. What if it was a woman half your age plus 7, fit and toned, with beautiful hair, and pouty lips peeking in your window? How would your feelings be different?

    Progression: This is harder to explain. Let's say you give a woman a $10K diamond necklace. If the woman hasn't done anything for you and you give her something like that, she well ask herself why.

    If she has no other info, she will assume that you have a value and she has a value, but your value is so much lower than hers - that you had to make up for how low you are with this gift.

    Women don't base most of your value on what they can see, they mostly base it on things that you DO.

    Conclusion:

    Do not give women who you do not know well, things that you worked hard for right off the bat. They didn't earn it, they will wonder why you gave it, and unless your value is thought by them to be extremely high, they won't be able to see past it.

    You will define yourself as low value, and their word for the efforts of low value men is 'creepy'.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2016
    noexcuses likes this.
  5. There's nothing creepier than a guy that does pick-up. All the social cues in the world aren't going to help you when she figures out you're still living at home with your parents.
     
  6. forgiveovercome

    forgiveovercome Fapstronaut

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    Interesting thoughts!

    I am married now but yes I dated a lot to finally find her, and I did use The Mystery Method to bolster that search.

    Pick Up is just a more systemic approach to what we are talking about in this thread. Less guessing more statistically proven methods.

    But ultimately we are all talking about the same thing. If I do x will I get a favorable response from someone I hope to hang out with.

    Value:

    Value is interesting because we judge (men vs women) so differently who might be a great dating partner in the beginning. Like when making first contact.

    A man can tell pretty quickly if he thinks a woman might be acceptible to take on a date from looks.

    'Shes attractive to me and I would be happy to go on a date with her.'

    Feelings and personality come after. Looks can initially convey value.

    Women aren't that way. Ever see a super beautiful woman walking with an average dude and wonder why?

    'From what I have seen him do or say, I feel like I would like to give him a chance.'


    EDIT
    I read the whole thread and I wanted to add. Look, I'm not saying become a pick up artist. Do read Mystery Method though. Get a base line for how this works. There are red flags at the very least that you can avoid.

    The good news is that you can start over with a new girl and wipe the slate clean tomorrow. This is a numbers game . I dated some real beauties back in the day, and my wife being the most beautiful of them all. I was turned down so many times though man. Maybe 6 to 1. You owe it to the girl you will end up with to put in the practice and find what works for you. That way when that special gal comes around, you can use that practiced, sweet, kind, A-Game, and get the girl. You can do it. Read the book.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2016
  7. melancholy king

    melancholy king Fapstronaut

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    As someone who has been labeled a creep many times, I can tell you the reason is almost entirely dependent on how you look. If for example you are short, scrawny, and look innocent you can say and do almost anything and you will never be called a creep. However if you are tall, built, and look kind of dark you will be immediately classified as a creep. I have heard many people tell me upfront that I looked like a child molester, sure I shrug it off with humor and such, but it still just goes to show how incredibly dependent people are on what they see.
     
  8. forgiveovercome

    forgiveovercome Fapstronaut

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    Melancholy I'm glad you're able to shrug this off, thanks for sharing.

    Ok so I guess I would have to say, how you immediately come across to people is important. Most women can date a man with any body type regardless of how he looks because of how they feel about the man.

    The presentation of what you are can actually be important, especially in the beginning, especially if you stand out for some reason. Being an individual IS important, but presentation of who you are is also important.

    So imagine this, this will blow you mind what I'm about to say. I'm on this site. I'm a pervert. Yes its true. Guess what, while I was dating in college etc the women I dated for sure knew that I was a pervert, my lovely friends who were totally a 'friend zone' situation would still put on pretty dresses and join me for dinner. So they wouldn't run off or anything because I was a pervert and I talked to them plenty without the outcome of sex. I want to make that clear from some of the stuff I'm reading in this thread. Its not a true / false question. If you are subtly appropriately indicating interest to some woman, and she is not into you - there is NO reason she should not be comfortable hanging around you in the future.

    I have said it once I will say it again. If you are having trouble relating to women, whether its talking or how you look - I recommend reading the Mystery Method. It addresses how you should dress, your hygiene and things that are maybe setting off red flags to people. Do this after you have been successful in NoFap for some time.

    I'm not saying become a Pick Up Artist (PUA) but consider that there are communities of the focus and with massed materials on the subject of becoming what women would consider - a better qualified suiter - and then acting the part. Don't do negs. Don't use negs for any reason. Just ignore anything that discusses negs.

    There are PUA boards where you can more or less find something like an accountability partner here, except is a 'wing' for them. If you have an experienced one, you can send him photos of what you're working with ask how to improve. You can basically change overnight.

    Hope this helps, best of luck.
     
  9. forgiveovercome

    forgiveovercome Fapstronaut

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    Its not a true / false question. If you are subtly appropriately indicating interest to some woman, and she is not into you - there is NO reason she should not be comfortable hanging around you in the future.

    To build on this - it is your responsibility to learn to responsibly, charmingly, non threateningly, safely convey yourself when you communicate to women. You have to first build a relationship foundation of trust with women. You cant just jump into whatever has been on your mind. You must deliver bright, enjoyable, entertaining, short bursts of conversation for women to marvel over. If a woman makes a conversation anything but enjoyable, and stimulating (like if she somehow turns the conversation boring) it is your responsibility to conversationally put things back in order (make the conversation fun, light, bright, enjoyable again).

    If you were to invite some woman after earning her trust to go do something (clearly a date with you) and she doesn't exactly want you that way - a reasonable thing for you or her to do would be to invite the other somewhere in a group right? She doesn't want to be alone in a romantic sense with you, but look - now you're friends.

    Build an actual friendship for a bit, then move on from friendship. This is how it usually works.

    You can practice relate-ability to women at dinners, parties, whatever. Even if they don't want to have a romantic relationship with you. Just trying to be clear because I have read some contrary in this thread that is not on point.

    Get your pornography addictions taken out of your life. Then give that book a read and check out the POA forums for how your interpersonal dynamics measure up. Be you, just be the you that comes across intentionally and on purpose in a way that people and women can understand.
     
  10. I think people/girls overuse the word "creepy" in contexts where if they had precisely expressed their reaction to the other person they might have chosen a different word.

    When the word "creepy" makes sense I think is when the other person is confused about your intentions to the point of discomfort. People like consistency, they want things to make sense and chains of events to proceed as expected. So you're "creepy" if you stare at a girl for an extended period but never approach her. It's "creepy" to flirt with a girl repeatedly but never ask her out. Etc. I think "creepy" really means "inconsistent" in a bad way.

    This of course also depends on the current state of the relationship and the expectations the person associates with that. So as the OP mentioned, writing a novel to a stranger might be considered creepy. It's far outside the person's expectations. I think successful romance is usually operating just outside the realm of comfortable expectation, and has its effect because it anticipates something the other person was already probably going to think soon. Also as someone else mentioned here, initial impression matters too, either someone is attracted to you initially or not. If they aren't, your actions are already being viewed through a negative lens.

    Complicated stuff, but if you want an actionable solution... try thinking about what the other person expects, comparing it with what you want, and then acting decisively in accordance to your findings. This is pretty much all you can do. If you're still perceived as "creepy" it's probably the other person's problem more than yours.
     
  11. forgiveovercome

    forgiveovercome Fapstronaut

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    Oh for sure. Creepy is an insensitive lazy non descriptive word that means 'I don't like'.

    I tend to agree here. Things have a natural progression. Its not even completely crazy to write a novel about a woman and give it to her. Its just that kind of gift needs to be much farther along in the progression.

    A good first gift could be a single flower. Literally my first gift to women is laughter. I give them a gift of laughing at a joke that they make when they are uncomfortable, that is not funny. So small and simple. I'm kinda a machine and I don't expect you to be as systematic as I am. But the novel could come at a time after friendship, after kissing, after love making. A woman is very vulnerable when she gives up sex, you could give something like the novel at that time to in turn make yourself vulnerable.

    This may be a bit advanced...
     
    bastion likes this.


  12. Finally tracked down this video. It's a good (and humorous) representation of the importance of perspective. "Whether a gesture is charming or alarming depends on how it's received."
     
  13. Harvhe

    Harvhe Fapstronaut

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    I don't agree with varieties of pick up artists and the techniques they show (notably, relying on pity and saying they are going to commit suicide) but a lot of it is science you have to learn yourself. I'm socially awkward but even I can scope out a room, establish some eye contact and 'lay the bait' though systematic small actions that could be perceived creepy over set amount of time.

    If i was in a room full of people, i would just hang out for a small bit by myself, pick up the voices of people around me passively, then try to get a bit of company with other people talking about general stuff (don't have to even be mates with them) within relative visual range of 'the mark', make a small amount of direct eye contact, have a positive resting face and check the signals. Providing you went to the effort to look nice, all the things you will have will come together. If streched for time rinse and repeat (this is excellent for library romances as often people will be too bored and have a talking topic that they are literally reading off)

    - illusion of peers/peers
    - Friendly approachable outlook (even if you're just freindzonable for now *Its a start*)
    - Subtle pushes by action to notify your personal attraction.
    - If green lights are go find a opportunity to talk to them solo or with a close friend of theirs (having too many people there complicates it and risks embarrassing the mark)

    Got a pretty watertight strategy but a poor execution of self confidence to actually go through with a relationship and too strong morals/Principles to indulge in sleazy casual intercourse.
     
  14. Out of every 10 chicks you meet, 9 of them are going to think you're creepy. If you can't deal with those odds, you're not cut out for "the game". It takes BALLS to go up to random women, in public, possibly risk getting arrested for harassment, possibly risk getting your ass kicked or verbally chewed out by "white knights" and otherwise looking like a fool. But it's character-building. Any time you get punched in the mouth by life, you either crumble or improve. Everyone goes through this (except Channing Tatum, of course)
     
  15. silverlukas

    silverlukas Fapstronaut

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    No offense but if you are risking harassment charges then you are doing something drastically wrong. Also if 9 out of 10 women find you creepy you are doing something very wrong. This is an unfortunate remnant of the old school PUA game which leads guys to believe that "women are difficult" and "you have to plow forward" and "put in the numbers".

    You're not seeing these women as individuals and unable to gauge whether your advances are appropriate in context and therefore getting into trouble.

    Now, if you were simply honest about your intentions and showed respect for the female, sure it may be true that only one out of ten women are going to be interested in you romantically or sexually. And it can take time and effort to find her. But the idea that you need to be offensive or risk being thrown out of places or arrested is just crazy.

    Mystery method is very clear how to deal with groups that contain white knight males. Don't be a douche, engage the guys! At a minimum they are platonic friends with the females so why cause division in their group? It's completely unnecessary and counterproductive.

    Women aren't these mystified little fragile children that can't decide to make plans with you, to the dismay of their orbiter male friends, without you having to cause a scene. Just be social and normal and talk to *everyone*. If you're in conversation with a female and there is *mutual* attraction you can move forward. If there isn't, move on!

    Trust me when I say, if the woman has self esteem then she values all of her friendships. She is going to have a hard time sleeping with a man who lacks basic social skills and puts her in awkward scenarios with her friends. Totally unnecessary.
     
    melancholy king likes this.
  16. Temujin

    Temujin Fapstronaut

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    Isn't this PUA/Value stuff just massively over thinking things.

    If a girl feels a connection to you the chances of them finding you creepy is much less.

    If a girl feels no connection to you and it's obvious you have a big connection to her then it's creepy.

    So go out there and start building connections with people. It isn't about being impressive or proving 'value' it's as simple as opening your ears and just listening. The more you listen to someone the more connected you will both feel.
     
    silverlukas likes this.
  17. Pick-up is horse crap. It basically says you can bang any chick regardless of money. That might be true in the short run. But women need to feel safe and secure. They want a man who has options. And if you're not the best-looking dude out there, you have to compensate by working extra hard or by lowering your standards.

    IMO people that defer to pick-up are people that don't want to face reality. They don't want to put in the hours of work in terms of bettering themselves through fitness or establishing a career. They're snake oil salesmen who end up broke. Any asshole can talk a huge game on the internet. But what proof is there that their methods work? I don't have time to become a magician and a swindler. While I'm busy figuring out how to dupe a chick into ignoring the fact that I'm a loser, there's a guy out there working his ass off, putting bread on the table, and investing in his future. Be the long-term success, not the idiot that follows the path of others. People on this forum have A LOT to learn when it comes to being real men.
     
  18. Temujin

    Temujin Fapstronaut

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    Okay. I agree with you that pick up is crap. But I strongly disagree with just about everything you just wrote.

    The amount of love stories written about wealthy women who end up falling for down and out bad boys who have had a hard time, but deep down behind their onion layers love the girl to bits is insane.

    Again it's based on the premise that the man is the one that needs to do all the impressing. It sounds like a seriously unbalanced dynamic.

    Plus it seems ingenuine. At least during courtship. Why would a girl care that you have money and a career if you know completely nothing about them as a person.

    Or another way of looking at it. Why would I want a girl to know I was wealthy or not if I know nothing about them.

    The wealthiest guy I've ever met drove around in a seriously terrible car and wore cheap clothes. He wanted to know people hanged out with him because of who he was. Rather than the size of his bank balance.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2016
  19. Harvhe

    Harvhe Fapstronaut

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    Karma to that dude.

    Removing ourselves from our intelligent empathetic state, impressing others is literally all over the natural world and hardwired into ourselves. Strongest most protective partners with the best innovative/compelling displays get the mate pretty much. Birds of paradise, silverback gorrilla's etc.

    Being a intelligent human is demanding and it allows our merits to shine through or drag us down. A great intellectual guy who's goodhearted but so reclusive that he can't get out will probably not be able to raise a flag to attract a mate without showcasing that trait, but in the same way the recipient may instead be looking for another signal.

    Put three individuals of any animal in a human setting with sub-human intelligence but equally strong instinct and I bet you it would break down really easily. Being human has made us rise above simple displays (though wealth and physique is still a big hook for some) into more demanding thoughtful beings.
     
  20. Earl Sweatshirt

    Earl Sweatshirt Fapstronaut

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    This is absolutely one of the main reasons of why I refuse to chase after a woman now. I always have that anxiety that I'll just repeat history (I unintentionally creeped out 2 females before) and I just don't want that misinterpretation to happen. The thing is, I am also shy, an overthinker (especially when it comes to crushing on someone!) and socially awkward but that can change in a few days-weeks because of my Thousand Day March. If you guys can help me that will be cool.
     

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