Desperately needing advice

EyesWideOpen · Aug 19, 2018

Tryingforfamily said: ↑

Act out by doing what?
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By doing whatever it is that feeds your addiction, whatever gives you that dopamine hit. Porn, masturbation, porn substitutes (p-subs), soft porn, ogling...the list goes on. It could be anything because different addicts have different preferences.

hope4healing · Aug 19, 2018

Tryingforfamily said: ↑

In the interest in moving this thread forward and getting my wife help, have you suffered from betrayal trauma?
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You will find no shortage of betrayal trauma around here. There are many of us who are all too familiar with it. Like @EyesWideOpen and numerous others, I have dealt with betrayal trauma for over 2 decades.You can learn a lot about it around here, but you have to want to.

Deleted Account · Aug 19, 2018

EyesWideOpen said: ↑

Back on topic, I responded what I did to you because your posts were unclear in their context. One seemed to support her, another didn't. It was very back and forth.
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Sigh. You made a false statement and claimed I was telling a woman how she was allowed to feel based on how man treated her. Implying that I had no regard towards women’s feelings.

That’s actually the complete opposite of what I did and if you read clearly you could understand it.

Please let this be it I honestly have nothing towards anybody but just feel like my words were definitely misinterpreted

EyesWideOpen · Aug 19, 2018

that one guy said: ↑

Sigh. You made a false statement and claimed I was telling a woman how she was allowed to feel based on how man treated her. Implying that I had no regard towards women’s feelings.

That’s actually the complete opposite of what I did and if you read clearly you could understand it.

Please let this be it I honestly have nothing towards anybody but just feel like my words were definitely misinterpreted
Click to expand...

I think it's time you exit this conversation. If you want to argue with me further, PM me. I'll be happy to carry it on there.

Deleted Account · Aug 19, 2018

EyesWideOpen said: ↑

I think it's time you exit this conversation. If you want to argue with me further, PM me. I'll be happy to carry it on there.
Click to expand...

id rather end it on my own terms and not be exited but I’ll stop replying as soon as I no longer get quoted.

EyesWideOpen · Aug 19, 2018

@Tryingforfamily , have you read through this yet?

https://www.nofap.com/rebooting/

EyesWideOpen · Aug 19, 2018

@Tryingforfamily , Here are a couple of books I suggest to start off reading.

Out of the Shadows by Dr. Patrick Carnes
Out of the Doghouse by Dr. Rob Weiss
Your Brain on Porn by Gary Wilson

Tryingforfamily · Aug 19, 2018

EyesWideOpen said: ↑

@Tryingforfamily , have you read through this yet?

From: https://www.nofap.com/rebooting/

Porn-Free Mode: Abstaining from Porn
“Porn-Free Mode” or “P-Mode” only requires that a rebooter abstain from looking at pornography. P-Mode rebooters allow themselves to masturbate and have orgasms (with or without a partner). While this mode is not as commonly practiced as other modes, some members arrive at the conclusion that watching pornography, and only watching pornography, is their problematic sexual habit.

P-Mode has its own pitfalls. While abstaining from the superstimulation of pornography is undoubtedly a good idea that will help the brain recover, we speculate it may take longer for a true reboot to occur, since a P-Mode rebooter is still bathing their reward system in dopamine by masturbating and having orgasms.

As with PM-Mode, rebooters who still allow themselves to orgasm should be prepared to experience the “Chaser Effect” (see Pitfalls, below), which is a period after having an orgasm where some rebooters are more apt to be triggered.

One common symptom of excessive masturbators is a desensitization of the genitals. This can be caused by a desensitization of the nerves or to a thickening of the tissue of the genitals, and is attributed to the intense stimulation hands or toys can provide, especially over long masturbation sessions. This symptom, known as “Death Grip,” often clears up after a brief period of abstinence from rough or otherwise intense masturbation. We recommend that P-Mode rebooters train themselves to touch themselves more gently or use toys that provide a more gentle, “natural” sensation for the duration of their challenge.

PM-Mode: Abstaining from Porn and Masturbation
PM-Mode is a set of parameters where the rebooter abstains from both pornography and masturbation, but allows themselves to engage in sex and have orgasms. This is a popular choice among rebooters who have partners or are otherwise sexually active. This mode isn’t as commonly practiced among our members as “Hard Mode”, in part because many excessive porn users are not sexually active.

PM-Mode is sometimes referred to as “Normal Mode,” in order to distinguish it from “Hard Mode,” which is the nickname for PMO-Mode (below). However, PM-Mode is not particularly easy and offers its own pitfalls. The “Chaser Effect” (see Pitfalls, below) is a common problem for PM-Mode rebooters. Furthermore, we speculate that the occasional bath of dopamine PM-Mode that rebooters experience when having sex may make for a slower reboot.

Hard Mode: Abstaining from Porn, Masturbation, and Orgasm Altogether

We lovingly nicknamed this mode “Hard Mode,” as many of our members are video gamers. Abstaining from PMO altogether includes barring orgasms with another person. Many rebooters do a Hard Mode reboot by default since they do not have partners or are not sexually active. Rebooters with partners can still do Hard Mode, but will want to get their partner’s on board with the idea of abstaining from sex or learning non-orgasmic sexual techniques. One such technique, karezza, has been successfully practiced by some members of the community.

While Hard Mode may seem like a more difficult reboot than P- or PM-Mode, Hard Mode rebooters won’t have to deal with the Chaser Effect, and they may experience the benefits of rebooting more quickly than if they’d done an another type of reboot.

Still, Hard Mode rebooters should be prepared for several potential difficulties. See the Pitfalls section, below.

Abstaining from Other Behaviors
Rebooters need not strictly limit themselves to NoFap’s official formats when choosing their challenge parameters.

We encourage rebooters to tailor their challenge to their own needs and aspirations. While most members of the NoFap community design their reboots around quitting porn and abstaining from masturbation for a period of time, that doesn’t mean that rebooters are limited to our standard program! A rebooting challenge is a good time to look at some other problem sexual habits. Do you spend too much time cruising social media for sexy pictures? Are you compelled to visit massage parlors or hire prostitutes? Do you engage in sexual fantasy to the point that it intrudes on your life?

We encourage people to use our choose-your-own-challenge model to pursue other habit-breaking goals and improve their lives. Whether you do it after you reboot from porn or during your porn reboot, our platform is available for anybody who wants to improve their lives. Do you drink too much coffee? Do you live a sedentary lifestyle or have poor eating habits?

We find that making too many changes all at once is difficult to sustain, and it is therefore important to be mindful of overloading your list of reboot habits. However, rebooting is a golden opportunity to make your life better, and NoFap is an excellent environment for finding support as you reach your goals.

Habits and Hobbies

In addition to abstaining from problematic sexual behaviors, we encourage rebooters to develop habits and hobbies that promote self-growth. For many rebooters, negative thoughts and feelings can trigger urges to use porn, ultimately leading to a reset or relapse. By building good habits and slowly progressing towards positive long-term goals, a rebooter can bolster their self-confidence, reduce negative thinking, and constructively use the surplus time and energy they will have after quitting porn.

It’s up to the rebooter to choose their own habits and hobbies. No one can tell you what activity will give you the positive boost you need!

For an extra challenge, try adding habits or hobbies to your challenge parameters. Commit to working on your habits or hobbies every day of your challenge.

It is important to note that a rebooter shouldn’t try to add too many habits or hobbies all at once. It is better to start small and excel than to bite off more than you can chew. Choose small goals for one or two habits or hobbies. After handling them successfully for a sustained period, slowly ramp up to bigger or more challenging goals. Refrain from taking on more habits until your first set have become second nature.

Habits
Common habits include new exercise or dietary programs, meditation, or adult daily living skills such as housework or flossing. Some rebooters like to challenge themselves to take a cold shower every morning for the duration of their reboot, as a simple way of building self-discipline.

A good habit to choose is something a rebooter can work on each day. It should be challenging enough to make a rebooter feel a sense of accomplishment, but not so intimidating that they’re just setting themselves up for more failure, which could result in negative thinking.

For instance, a sedentary rebooter will do well to exercise for 20 minutes each day rather than taking on a high-intensity exercise program. Someone looking to eat healthier might do better making sure they drink eight glasses of water each day rather than suddenly going vegan. Creative rebooters might want to finally get that novel written, but a good place to start could be a 750 words-per-day writing discipline.

Hobbies
Working on a hobby is a good way to pass the time. Some heavy porn users may have spent hours each day looking at porn and are surprised to find themselves with time on their hands once they start their reboot. This extra time may lead to boredom, which is another common trigger for porn use.

Hobbies could include finishing a project or pursuing an interest you’ve always been curious about. Hobbies that promote physical activity are a fantastic option. Taking up hiking, fun runs, or a new sport are excellent choices. Hobbies that take skill to accomplish and engage creative passions can be particularly fulfilling, and ones that engage manual dexterity can help keep “idle hands” busy. Learning to play a new instrument or handicrafts such as knitting are good options.

A good hobby provides relaxation rather than escapism. Relaxing hobbies are engaged in deliberately and leave you feeling refreshed and recharged. By contrast, escapist activities are often compulsive, performed as a way of escaping from uncomfortable duties or feelings, and will leave you feeling depleted. Only you will be able to determine whether a hobby is relaxation or escapism. For instance, video games and reading can be relaxing hobbies for one rebooter while providing destructive escapism for another rebooter.

Monk Mode

Conversely, experienced rebooters may choose to engage in a more intense regimen. Taking on an extreme challenge can be very motivating for some people! When a rebooter takes on extreme disciplines during their challenge, we refer to this as “Monk Mode.”

Monk Mode is a loosely defined term, first adopted by NoFap’s awesome community rather than NoFap itself. Some components of a Monk Mode reboot might include unplugging from any media which could contain sexual imagery, including television, YouTube, and social media. Monk Mode rebooters might abstain from losing themselves in sexual fantasy by instituting a “five second rule” for entertaining any sexual thoughts. Monk Mode rebooters in relationships might even agree with their partners to swear off all sexual contact for the duration of the reboot, including non-orgasmic contact.

People doing a Monk Mode reboot might also attempt to include intense discipline in other areas of their lives, like attempting a high-intensity workout regimen or fasting.

One consequence of Monk Mode might lie in biting off more than you can chew. The idea of attempting an extreme reboot can seem appealing in its stark simplicity, especially to pornography addicts who, like all addicts, may be all-or-nothing thinkers. But those without experience rebooting might be setting themselves up for failure if they are unable to maintain Monk Mode and subsequently become too discouraged to try again.

Rebooters attempting an intense exercise or diet regimen with their challenge should do so only after consulting their doctor.

Resetting

If a rebooter engages in one of their restricted behaviors before the end date of the challenge, this needn’t be the end of their journey. Instead, they should just “reset” and try again! Resetting means restarting their challenge beginning with day one and starting again.

Please don’t be discouraged if you have to reset. Most rebooters reset at some point. It’s important to realize that even though your day counter goes all the way back to day one, your progress isn’t completely erased. If you have several weeks or months of abstinence prior to your reset, you brain still gets the benefits of all that hard work… unless you give up and fall back into old habits entirely (see Reset vs. Relapse, below).

Counters
In the NoFap community, both at NoFap.com and NoFap’s subreddit, you will find tools to count the total consecutive number of days you’ve succeeded at rebooting challenges. These tools are called “counters” or “badges” (both names are used interchangeably). When you engage in a restricted behavior during a challenge, you need to reset your counter to day one.

When to Reset
Sometimes it’s tricky for a rebooter to determine when it’s time to reset. For instance, if a rebooter swears off porn but finds themselves browsing sexy YouTube videos, does that constitute a reset? That’s really up for that individual rebooter to determine.

If on the one hand the rebooter’s main goal is to refrain from masturbation, and watching sexy YouTube videos is tempting, then they might consider that behavior a red flag but not really a reset. If on the other hand a rebooter is trying to break a porn addiction and browsing sexy videos on YouTube puts them in the same trancelike state that they enter while watching porn, perhaps those videos should constitute porn for that rebooter, and watching them therefore constitutes a reset.

If you find yourself unsure whether to reset or not, this is a great opportunity to reach out to the collective wisdom of NoFap’s community. Get on those forums and post! Other rebooters will be happy to help.

If all else fails, a rule of thumb here is that if you remain unsure whether to reset or not, you should probably just go ahead and reset.

The Virtues of Resetting
Resetting a challenge is not the same as being a failure. In fact, there are several important virtues that are reinforced when you reset.

One virtue is honesty. Each time you admit to yourself and the other members of the community that you need to reset, you show a commendable level of honesty. Being dishonest, by failing to reset your counter or otherwise misrepresenting your progress, will do nothing but hurt yourself.

Another virtue is wisdom. Resetting is an opportunity for a rebooter to find their “weak spots” by examining what behaviors immediately led to the reset. Once these weak spots are understood, the rebooter can fix the leak, so to speak, to prevent the same thing from happening again in the future. For example, after resetting you look at what led up to your slip and realize you were browsing the Internet on your phone in bed before heading to sleep when you stumbled on some sexy pictures, which triggered your urges. Taking this knowledge, you decide to leave your phone in another room when you go to bed.

You’ll develop vulnerability and compassion when you’ve faced the pain of having to reset. By opening up and sharing your flaws with others, you learn that it’s okay to be vulnerable. And the next time someone opens up to you about their failure, you now have an increased capacity for compassion.

Perhaps the greatest lesson you can learn from resetting is tenacity. Each time you reset your count, it’s an opportunity to get up and try again. Success doesn’t come to people who never stumble; success comes to people who learn how to get up again.

When you reset, the most important things you can do are share with the community that you have stumbled, and try again.

Reset vs. Relapse
It’s important to understand the difference between a reset and a relapse. While a reset means you have failed the parameters of a challenge and need to reset your count to day one, a relapse is a more serious issue. Relapse is when a member of the community who had been improving their lives slips back into old bad habits.

Regarding relapse, mental health professionals draw a fine distinction. For someone who has been diagnosed as addicted to masturbation or sex, a single instance of masturbating or having sex does not necessarily constitute a relapse, since masturbating and sex are both largely considered natural activities. Masturbation or sex can be counted as a relapse if they negatively impact a diagnosed addict’s life. This can mean bingeing (masturbating many times per day to the point where it interferes with life), engaging in risky behavior (e.g. in public or at work), or skipping out on important obligations to do it. However, for pornography addicts, any one instance of masturbating with porn can be considered a relapse, since masturbating with porn is not a natural activity. In fact, for porn addicts, deliberately browsing porn sites without masturbating could be considered a relapse, since exposure to the superstimulus of pornography is probably harmful.

Regardless of whether you’ve relapsed or not, you need to reset your counter after any single instance of breaking your challenge commitment.

Relapses don’t necessarily happen during a rebooting challenge. Some members who have already rebooted can relapse months or years later. For these people, relapse can be a good opportunity to try rebooting again.

If you do think you’ve relapsed, it is critically important to reach out to your support system at this point, including NoFap’s community. Sometimes we need to reach out for help in order to stave off a destructive spiral.
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I have read through this. I've been on normal mode for over 40 days(I know that's not long) on my first non solo attempt at no PM.

Also I'm seeing a CSAT counselor(second appointment in 4 days) that my wife recommended. I am fully aware of psubs and those have not reset my counter either.

Tryingforfamily · Aug 19, 2018

EyesWideOpen said: ↑

@Tryingforfamily , Here are a couple of books I suggest to start off reading.

Out of the Shadows by Dr. Patrick Carnes
Out of the Doghouse by Dr. Rob Weiss
Your Brain on Porn by Gary Wilson
Click to expand...

I'm not a book reader although this life experience has probably been the biggest driver for me to want to become one.

I will check them out. Thank you.

EyesWideOpen · Aug 19, 2018

Tryingforfamily said: ↑

I have read through this. I've been on normal mode for over 40 days(I know that's not long) on my first non solo attempt at no PM.

Also I'm seeing a CSAT counselor(second appointment in 4 days) that my wife recommended. I am fully aware of psubs and those have not reset my counter either.
Click to expand...

To get started helping your wife through the betrayal trauma, take a look at those links my signature (I think you already mentioned you would), and also buy the videos from Dr. Doug Weiss, "Helping Her Heal."

https://www.drdougweiss.com/product/helping-her-heal-dvd/

EyesWideOpen · Aug 19, 2018

Tryingforfamily said: ↑

I'm not a book reader although this life experience has probably been the biggest driver for me to want to become one.

I will check them out. Thank you.
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You can get all three as audio books to listen to while you are driving or yardwork or whatever. No excuses!

Tryingforfamily · Aug 19, 2018

EyesWideOpen said: ↑

To get started helping your wife through the betrayal trauma, take a look at those links my signature (I think you already mentioned you would), and also buy the videos from Dr. Doug Weiss, "Helping Her Heal."

https://www.drdougweiss.com/product/helping-her-heal-dvd/
Click to expand...

Already watched Doug's video very good and eye opening. Also started watching another video by him of a multiple session class on youtube but the name is slipping me right now.

Tryingforfamily · Aug 19, 2018

EyesWideOpen said: ↑

You can get all three as audio books to listen to while you are driving or yardwork or whatever. No excuses!
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Your right. Thank you!

Tryingforfamily · Aug 19, 2018

GhostWriter said: ↑

Dear @theContrarian,

I'm so sorry. I want to apologize that your thread was Hijacked with irrelevant discussion. I left you a Private Message. If you want/need anything else, please don't hesitate to ask for it. Help will always be given to those who ask for it.

@Kenzi & @AnonymousAnnaXOXO have tremendous resources for you on their taglines and are most helpful to anyone who asks for it.

If you need anything else, let me know, and if I can, I will provide it.

Regards,
Click to expand...

Ty for your help

Tryingforfamily · Aug 19, 2018

But to be totally honest with you I hijacked this thread. My wife needs help too and I don't want to be the one that takes it from her. Please if you have any other info my wife might find helpful please share!

Deleted Account · Aug 19, 2018

EyesWideOpen said: ↑

I think it's time you exit this conversation. If you want to argue with me further, PM me. I'll be happy to carry it on there.
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Thank you, again....

EyesWideOpen · Aug 19, 2018

Check out https://www.betrayedaddictedexpert.com/ and you can listen to their podcasts.

You can also check out their youtube channel. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCklkb0y6OVCGA3ZCEYlUOIg

Have you thought about attending a 12 step program like SA, SAA, or CR? Do you have an accountability partner? A sponsor from one of those programs is an excellent AP, or you could find one here on NF. Even if your spouse is your AP, it is an excellent idea to have another that is not emotionally attached to the situation.

EyesWideOpen · Aug 19, 2018

Tryingforfamily said: ↑

But to be totally honest with you I hijacked this thread. My wife needs help too and I don't want to be the one that takes it from her. Please if you have any other info my wife might find helpful please share!
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She can definitely benefit from many of the links I listed, particularly The Betrayed, Addict, Expert ones.

Deleted Account · Aug 19, 2018

GhostWriter said: ↑

Dear @theContrarian,

I'm so sorry. I want to apologize that your thread was Hijacked with irrelevant discussion. I left you a Private Message. If you want/need anything else, please don't hesitate to ask for it. Help will always be given to those who ask for it.

@Kenzi & @AnonymousAnnaXOXO have tremendous resources for you on their taglines and are most helpful to anyone who asks for it.

If you need anything else, let me know, and if I can, I will provide it.

Regards,
Click to expand...

Do not apologize. I am always hoping you are the one that finds my cry for help (not help as in I'm not safe; help as in needing experienced people to not let me slip into a vicious cycle preventing my own healing).

I have read you brilliant message. Response is taking some time. I respect your advice & journey, & want to be as thorough as possible.

Tryingforfamily · Aug 19, 2018

EyesWideOpen said: ↑

Check out https://www.betrayedaddictedexpert.com/ and you can listen to their podcasts.

You can also check out their youtube channel. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCklkb0y6OVCGA3ZCEYlUOIg

Have you thought about attending a 12 step program like SA, SAA, or CR? Do you have an accountability partner? A sponsor from one of those programs is an excellent AP, or you could find one here on NF. Even if your spouse is your AP, it is an excellent idea to have another that is not emotionally attached to the situation.
Click to expand...

PM'img you so I don't continue to hijack thread.

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