Did you want your partner to watch porn?

[CrushedandLeaving]

Hope I remember how to do this - it's been a while!

Like Crushed and Leaving, my partner’s porn use was an absolute libido killer for me. A couple of reasons for this:

1)Finding out about my husband’s sex addiction left me feeling extremely self-conscious and demoralized (not to mention disgusted and alarmed in some cases). And like Crushed, I also felt this shame in retrospect, thinking back on all the times during sex when I had been vulnerable, playful, and fully visible to him. I must have looked so ugly and performed so amateurishly compared to what he was used to seeing! He always insisted he was not comparing me to others. How could he say this, when every time he typed into a search bar “barely-legal blonde big tits” instead of “52 year old redhead with average sized breasts” he was expressing a preference, a process that, by definition, is based on comparison? In those moments, he was looking for someone he found better suited to his purpose (sexual release) than I was, and he chose them solely on the basis of their physical attributes.

2)I had a lot of resentment and anger (also libido killers), feeling that he had effectively doomed me to never being sufficient to sexually arouse him. He had spent decades jerking off to porn like it was his job, physically and mentally conditioning his nervous system to respond to a visual and conceptual ideal that I, simply by virtue of being a human organism, was moving farther away from every single day.

Further, when considering a SO’s perception that they are being compared, I think it may be useful to remember that they often have evidence other than porn use to support this perception. In many cases a partner’s porn use does not exist in isolation but is only one star in a constellation of sexual acting out behaviors. In my case, I had many date nights and family outings ruined when I literally could not gain or hold my husband’s attention because he had become fixated on compulsively ogling a woman or girl who had entered his field of vision. In those moments someone else’s physical appearance was more compelling to him than experiencing the full array and complexity of my person, so he chose to direct his rapt attention toward them. There was a battle and I lost. I don’t know how to see that any other way.

100% every word of this. The moment they use someone else's image if they have an image of you available is them comparing and choosing.

And to them, they don't think so. It means nothing to them BECAUSE of their history of use. But objectively, going to anyone else instead of waiting for your partner (or just ..going to your partner) is a comparison and your partner lost.

 

[CrushedandLeaving]

also felt this shame in retrospect, thinking back on all the times during sex when I had been vulnerable, playful, and fully visible to him. I must have looked so ugly and performed so amateurishly compared to what he was used to seeing!

And this. I have such an incredible amount of horror and shame, still, long after I left, about what being with me must have been like when his standard was professional level.

I'd set my own self on fire if I thought it would go back and erase the times I'd been vulnerable with him.

Porn. Kills. Love. And there really is no getting it back. You never truly trust again. You never truly feel special again. The nonsexual intimacy is ruined. Even past sexual intimacy is turned into something.....else. Something not good or special or okay. It's violating. The person you thought you were with isn't even dead, where you could mourn them and think fondly of old times. They disappear even from your memories and are replaced. I can't even sufficiently describe it. Within seconds, my best friend was suddenly an enemy and always had been.

 

[CrushedandLeaving]

I liked what you wrote. Every bit of it and yet it feels wrong to "like" it when it conveys so much pain.

I struggle with the 'wandering eye' as well. It seems like it always happens more often when I'm with my partner. In truth it is simply even more triggering when I see a sexually attractive woman in real life when I am with my partner because I feel a rush of shame for looking/wanting to look. And there might also be an additional adrenaline rush that goes along with trying to get an eyeful of something I know I shouldn't be looking at. I speak for myself only. But for me it is a shame fuelled addiction.

What you wrote about years of conditioning from decades of jerking off speaks volumes to me. Thank you for that. This is what reminds me that I absolutely must eliminate masturbation from my life. To do it at all, even once, is to light up that mental pathway associated with masturbating to images and fantasies. There is only one acceptable outlet and that is intimacy with my partner in my committed relationship.

What does your partner do to cope with that? How does she go anywhere with you if that risk exists?

 

[Warfman]

Hope I remember how to do this - it's been a while!

Like Crushed and Leaving, my partner’s porn use was an absolute libido killer for me. A couple of reasons for this:

1)Finding out about my husband’s sex addiction left me feeling extremely self-conscious and demoralized (not to mention disgusted and alarmed in some cases). And like Crushed, I also felt this shame in retrospect, thinking back on all the times during sex when I had been vulnerable, playful, and fully visible to him. I must have looked so ugly and performed so amateurishly compared to what he was used to seeing! He always insisted he was not comparing me to others. How could he say this, when every time he typed into a search bar “barely-legal blonde big tits” instead of “52 year old redhead with average sized breasts” he was expressing a preference, a process that, by definition, is based on comparison? In those moments, he was looking for someone he found better suited to his purpose (sexual release) than I was, and he chose them solely on the basis of their physical attributes.

2)I had a lot of resentment and anger (also libido killers), feeling that he had effectively doomed me to never being sufficient to sexually arouse him. He had spent decades jerking off to porn like it was his job, physically and mentally conditioning his nervous system to respond to a visual and conceptual ideal that I, simply by virtue of being a human organism, was moving farther away from every single day.

Further, when considering a SO’s perception that they are being compared, I think it may be useful to remember that they often have evidence other than porn use to support this perception. In many cases a partner’s porn use does not exist in isolation but is only one star in a constellation of sexual acting out behaviors. In my case, I had many date nights and family outings ruined when I literally could not gain or hold my husband’s attention because he had become fixated on compulsively ogling a woman or girl who had entered his field of vision. In those moments someone else’s physical appearance was more compelling to him than experiencing the full array and complexity of my person, so he chose to direct his rapt attention toward them. There was a battle and I lost. I don’t know how to see that any other way.

Sorry for your experience, and appreciate you sharing, I don't think you are wrong for feeling this way at all.

To me, addiction is used as a way to fill emptiness in ones life, it's very much filling inward issues rather than outward ones, like trying to find the perfect barely legal blonde, it's more about filling the void of feeling inadequate or fill in the blank with any issue. Now I'm not saying at all that there aren't people addicted who have an issue with comparisons to others. But, for someone who doesn't struggle with comparison of their partners looks, looks of others this would not affect them in the same way. For instance I'm not an alcoholic, and have no impulse to use it the same way I used PMO. But I used it to fill gaps in my life. Losing myself any way I could to avoid the pain, in lustful fantasy, to escape the hell I felt I was living. It was something that became all too easy as I was grieving my health issues and my self esteem that I had tied to my physical abilities. As @Meshuga articulated, it was instant and on demand. Now I'm not saying I'm right for what I did. Actually I see how wrong I was... But there was no impulse to "compare" the way it's being said here in this thread in any fashion. Unlike @+TenPercent I don't get triggered to look at p or mo when I see an attractive woman on the street. And +TP I don't think in any way that makes me better or worse than you! It's just a unique challenge you face that I don't. As I'm sure, there are unique ones I face that wouldn't bother you in the slightest.

Even though porn isn't real, it's use affects real life. I'm not saying how your husband felt @Susannah. Because I think each person has their own struggles. But for me, habits built viewing porn are inevitably going to creep into daily life. I think it's very possible that the gawking can be a symptom of that habit being formed, and that does include levels of escalation of addiction. I think addicts are not good at realizing this is even happening until after stopping. But it's not proof, that some of what has been said here to the contrary isn't true. Just as an addict can want to quit 1 million times yet fail time and time again. Doesn't mean they don't deep down truly want to quit.

 

[Deleted Account]

The moment they use someone else's image if they have an image of you available is them comparing and choosing.

just a clarifying question…
Were you saying that you would be ok if he were masturbating to a picture of you? Or did I misunderstand this sentence?

 

[Psalm27:1my light]

Sorry for your experience, and appreciate you sharing, I don't think you are wrong for feeling this way at all.

To me, addiction is used as a way to fill emptiness in ones life, it's very much filling inward issues rather than outward ones, like trying to find the perfect barely legal blonde, it's more about filling the void of feeling inadequate or fill in the blank with any issue. Now I'm not saying at all that there aren't people addicted who have an issue with comparisons to others. But, for someone who doesn't struggle with comparison of their partners looks, looks of others this would not affect them in the same way. For instance I'm not an alcoholic, and have no impulse to use it the same way I used PMO. But I used it to fill gaps in my life. Losing myself any way I could to avoid the pain, in lustful fantasy, to escape the hell I felt I was living. It was something that became all too easy as I was grieving my health issues and my self esteem that I had tied to my physical abilities. As @Meshuga articulated, it was instant and on demand. Now I'm not saying I'm right for what I did. Actually I see how wrong I was... But there was no impulse to "compare" the way it's being said here in this thread in any fashion. Unlike @+TenPercent I don't get triggered to look at p when I see an attractive woman on the street. And +TP I don't think in any way that makes me better or worse than you! It's just a unique challenge you face that I don't. As I'm sure, there are unique ones I face that wouldn't bother you in the slightest.

Even though porn isn't real, it's use affects real life. I'm not saying how your husband felt @Susannah. Because I think each person has their own struggles. But for me, habits built viewing porn are inevitably going to creep into daily life. I think it's very possible that the gawking can be a symptom of that habit being formed, and that does include levels of escalation of addiction. I think addicts are not good at realizing this is even happening until after stopping. But it's not proof, that some of what has been said here to the contrary isn't true. Just as an addict can want to quit 1 million times yet fail time and time again. Doesn't mean they don't deep down truly want to quit.

My husband does not struggle with gawking or ogling. At all. He never has. I would not have married him if he had. I’ve since realized he is not interested in real people. They are not a trigger for him and they rarely catch his eye. My csat in one of my sessions told me “ I was watching the men leave their group meeting. There was a beautiful woman who walked past them. Every single one heads swiveled to watch her…. Except your husband. He just kept walking, as if he didn’t see her, which was impossible because she walked right in front of them.” I’m sure up until she saw that, she probably thought I just didn’t notice or he hid it well.

 

[CrushedandLeaving]

I just ...don't know how people even do this. When I've picked a partner, it's like every other man in the world disappeared. I wouldn't HAVE positive physical thoughts about them. If someone was super jacked, I would think that they'd spent a lot of time on it and good for them, but nothing about it would be like "those are sexually nice arms" or whatever. Who cares about that person's arms? I had my person, I wanted ONLY HIS arms, ever. Even now, I struggle with it. I'm so far out of relationship with a person I don't even have any fondness for anymore and I still struggle to even academically acknowledge/notice that something about a man is attractive because I nested into "I have my person" and it's very hard to get out of that mode. I tried very hard to like the smile of a guy at my gym. He had dimples, I'm sure he was very cute. Just. Nothing. I tried very hard to lean in to the very fit woman I tried to go on a date with. I'm sure she must turn heads. I immediately had her in the "sister" box, within minutes of the date.

just a clarifying question…
Were you saying that you would be ok if he were masturbating to a picture of you? Or did I misunderstand this sentence?

Yeah, that was always fine with me, and what I assumed was the extent of his solo activity. I'd sent him hundreds of choices over the years. I never considered that pornographic or disconnecting. It was always bonding, to me. Something to increase desire for each other and play around. Part of our tool kit together. Going to someone else, in any context, is cheating to me.

 

[CrushedandLeaving]

Re: comparing again.

It was never the addiction that hurt. The addiction itself may be someone using a shitty coping mechanism. The actions and choices *within* the addiction (the "perfect barely legal blonde", the lying and taking my choices away) is what reveals the preference and comparison. I was not a barely legal blonde. If that's what he's searching for, he's obviously decided that someone with those descriptors is preferred to whatever I am and that that's what he wants to have his sexual experience with. It's not THAT he's coping with masturbation, it's HOW he's coping with masturbation. If he's stared down at a screen at someone's body performing an act, to do that act with him is the definition of hell. It's broccoli soup to broccoli soup. You may not think about Mac and cheese while you're eating it, but you're definitely deciding whether it's better than the last broccoli soup you had. My choice as to whether I wanted to submit my own broccoli soup for consideration was taken away. .

 

[Deleted Account]

I just ...don't know how people even do this. When I've picked a partner, it's like every other man in the world disappeared. I wouldn't HAVE positive physical thoughts about them. If someone was super jacked, I would think that they'd spent a lot of time on it and good for them, but nothing about it would be like "those are sexually nice arms" or whatever. Who cares about that person's arms? I had my person, I wanted ONLY HIS arms, ever. Even now, I struggle with it. I'm so far out of relationship with a person I don't even have any fondness for anymore and I still struggle to even academically acknowledge/notice that something about a man is attractive because I nested into "I have my person" and it's very hard to get out of that mode. I tried very hard to like the smile of a guy at my gym. He had dimples, I'm sure he was very cute. Just. Nothing. I tried very hard to lean in to the very fit woman I tried to go on a date with. I'm sure she must turn heads. I immediately had her in the "sister" box, within minutes of the date.


Yeah, that was always fine with me, and what I assumed was the extent of his solo activity. I'd sent him hundreds of choices over the years. I never considered that pornographic or disconnecting. It was always bonding, to me. Something to increase desire for each other and play around. Part of our tool kit together. Going to someone else, in any context, is cheating to me.

Thanks for clarifying.
I was just wondering because of my own thoughts on it.
I used to tell myself it was ok to M and fantasize as long as I was thinking about my wife. But I found it disconnecting and I felt guilty. As I thought about it, I realized it was because even my thoughts about her weren’t really her. There was no connection, only orgasm. I stopped M completely almost 10 years ago and my thinking has steadily changed and even though I’m lucky to have sex maybe once every 2 weeks now, I feel more connected to it. It’s really on her schedule because I don’t want sex unless she is actually into it. But when it does happen, I am never fantasizing about anyone else or even her in any way. I’m just in the moment reading her reactions trying my best to give her pleasure. My thoughts are nowhere but the moment. So different than many years back when I would guilt or manipulate to get sex and then be dissatisfied because it was disconnected and felt like rejection.
If she had ever been like the higher desire partners that seem common here, idk if things would have been different. But rejection was a common feeling from day one for me. She would have sex and try to engage but I don’t think she ever had the ability to be vulnerable.
In any case, it wasn’t healthy for me to get sexual pics from her or to even allow fantasy because when I came out of my fantasy I only felt more unwanted, rejected, and disconnected and it left me hurting more.

 

[Deleted Account]

Hope I remember how to do this - it's been a while!

Like Crushed and Leaving, my partner’s porn use was an absolute libido killer for me. A couple of reasons for this:

1)Finding out about my husband’s sex addiction left me feeling extremely self-conscious and demoralized (not to mention disgusted and alarmed in some cases). And like Crushed, I also felt this shame in retrospect, thinking back on all the times during sex when I had been vulnerable, playful, and fully visible to him. I must have looked so ugly and performed so amateurishly compared to what he was used to seeing! He always insisted he was not comparing me to others. How could he say this, when every time he typed into a search bar “barely-legal blonde big tits” instead of “52 year old redhead with average sized breasts” he was expressing a preference, a process that, by definition, is based on comparison? In those moments, he was looking for someone he found better suited to his purpose (sexual release) than I was, and he chose them solely on the basis of their physical attributes.

2)I had a lot of resentment and anger (also libido killers), feeling that he had effectively doomed me to never being sufficient to sexually arouse him. He had spent decades jerking off to porn like it was his job, physically and mentally conditioning his nervous system to respond to a visual and conceptual ideal that I, simply by virtue of being a human organism, was moving farther away from every single day.

Further, when considering a SO’s perception that they are being compared, I think it may be useful to remember that they often have evidence other than porn use to support this perception. In many cases a partner’s porn use does not exist in isolation but is only one star in a constellation of sexual acting out behaviors. In my case, I had many date nights and family outings ruined when I literally could not gain or hold my husband’s attention because he had become fixated on compulsively ogling a woman or girl who had entered his field of vision. In those moments someone else’s physical appearance was more compelling to him than experiencing the full array and complexity of my person, so he chose to direct his rapt attention toward them. There was a battle and I lost. I don’t know how to see that any other way.

Nice of you to pop in every once in a while. Glad to have your insights

 

[Warfman]

When I've picked a partner, it's like every other man in the world disappeared. I wouldn't HAVE positive physical thoughts about them. If someone was super jacked, I would think that they'd spent a lot of time on it and good for them, but nothing about it would be like "those are sexually nice arms" or whatever. Who cares about that person's arms? I had my person, I wanted ONLY HIS arms, ever. Even now, I struggle with it. I'm so far out of relationship with a person I don't even have any fondness for anymore and I still struggle to even academically acknowledge/notice that something about a man is attractive because I nested into "I have my person" and it's very hard to get out of that mode. I tried very hard to like the smile of a guy at my gym. He had dimples, I'm sure he was very cute. Just. Nothing. I tried very hard to lean in to the very fit woman I tried to go on a date with.

This is very similar to how I've always felt.

I was just listening to a John Delony episode and the caller and his wife were talking about his alcoholic addiction. The way he described it was, it isn't that I wanted to go get a beer. It was I have 5 minutes, I feel like crap, so I grabbed a six pack to fill that 5 minute gap.

My p use is very similar to that. Especially during some really hard times in my life.

I think it's perfectly fair for an SO to feel the way they do. And how you and others have. Behavior is a language.

I'm just saying this comparison "idea" of comparing my partners body parts with ones in porn wasn't something that crossed my mind. It was I feel like s*** this will make me feel better. It was incredibly selfish on my part. But I was in a really bad place. I didn't have the capacity to think of how others would be affected, all I could do was focus on my own pain. I think that's the phenomenon behind how an addict will always say, "well I have it worse off" or "you have it so much easier than I do". It's a selfish pit of misery and self loathing. Looking back I often want to slap the hell out of myself.

As far as why didn't I go to my wife during these hard times? Well you'd have to know my whole story. And I'm not going to start that here.

It was the choice I made and it was the wrong one simply put.

 

[Meshuga]

I just ...don't know how people even do this. When I've picked a partner, it's like every other man in the world disappeared. I wouldn't HAVE positive physical thoughts about them.

You proceed to explain your experience of sexual attraction, which is valid. You’re not lying. It matches what most women report. Men do not experience sexual attraction this way. You describe an experience of sexual attraction in which, if the object of attraction is not your person, the switch is “off” and you can’t turn it on even if you want to. It makes total sense, then, that you frame every action in the sexual sphere as a choice, and that your partner chose others over you. However, this is not the way most men experience sexual attraction. Think of @Psalm27:1my light ‘s description of the incident where a woman walked by a group of men. Were they all creeps? Maybe. But attractively dressed women are like a magnet. It’s something most men automatically feel, not think or choose but feel, they must pay attention to. It’s the same strength as fire, or a snake; if it’s there, eyes are on it. We have to see what it does, where it goes. Because it’s important.

Women and men expecting the other to navigate sexual attraction like the other is like the deaf and blind giving tips and critiques about how to function in the world. Our experiences are too different to be useful. Porn is awful. Porn is not the solution, porn is poison, porn destroys relationships the way battery acid destroys cotton; slow but inexorably. I hate porn. I hate it for what it’s done to me, I hate it for what it has done to the person I once loved the most. However, I did not use porn in the way you describe, my reasons for using it are not the reasons that only make sense to you based on your experience. The logical conclusion is not that I’m lying, and that all porn addicts are lying, even the ones demonstrably dedicated to recovering. Before we lock into that possibility, it’s worth considering that men experience something different than you do.

If men and women experienced sexual attraction the exact same way, there would be an exact balance of male and female addicts on this forum.

 

[CrushedandLeaving]

You proceed to explain your experience of sexual attraction, which is valid. You’re not lying. It matches what most women report. Men do not experience sexual attraction this way. You describe an experience of sexual attraction in which, if the object of attraction is not your person, the switch is “off” and you can’t turn it on even if you want to. It makes total sense, then, that you frame every action in the sexual sphere as a choice, and that your partner chose others over you. However, this is not the way most men experience sexual attraction. Think of @Psalm27:1my light ‘s description of the incident where a woman walked by a group of men. Were they all creeps? Maybe. But attractively dressed women are like a magnet. It’s something most men automatically feel, not think or choose but feel, they must pay attention to. It’s the same strength as fire, or a snake; if it’s there, eyes are on it. We have to see what it does, where it goes. Because it’s important.

Women and men expecting the other to navigate sexual attraction like the other is like the deaf and blind giving tips and critiques about how to function in the world. Our experiences are too different to be useful. Porn is awful. Porn is not the solution, porn is poison, porn destroys relationships the way battery acid destroys cotton; slow but inexorably. I hate porn. I hate it for what it’s done to me, I hate it for what it has done to the person I once loved the most. However, I did not use porn in the way you describe, my reasons for using it are not the reasons that only make sense to you based on your experience. The logical conclusion is not that I’m lying, and that all porn addicts are lying, even the ones demonstrably dedicated to recovering. Before we lock into that possibility, it’s worth considering that men experience something different than you do.

If men and women experienced sexual attraction the exact same way, there would be an exact balance of male and female addicts on this forum.

This is exactly why I'll never date a man again. I don't actually believe this is naturally how men are. I think this is socially drafted into them, but I want nothing to do with it ever again. It's just women for me now. I wish women all had the ability of a vaguer sexual preference to just cut men who feel that way out and date other women. Send a message that the creepiness and disrespect won't be tolerated anymore and then follow through. God did not make people, men or women, to be the way you describe.

 

[PixelPrincess]

Haven’t wanted to comment but have been keeping up.

I really appreciate the women’s perspective here and it helps me define my own feelings. I also appreciate you men being so kind with your consolation and understanding. That’s so healing.

Whether or not it’s a direct comparison, it hurts. It does destroy trust. But honestly I knew something was going on.

what I don’t think my husband realized was that when he was in a phase of p use (he goes in and out depending on how much he’s motivated to change), he treated me differently. He doesn’t have the same look when he’s using. He doesn’t touch me non- sexually. Or sexually. He doesn’t initiate. He loses boners and tells me I’m not doing enough. It’s transactional and requires so many unnatural things that turned me off. He gets grumpy with me and seems like he kind of hates me. He lied about how nothing was different. I didn’t understand any of this until he confessed his habits and I said that I knew he was using p. He said he knew I knew and he lied anyway. For what reason? He literally said that it was just because he liked it.

That’s hard to forget. I think he’s doing okay. He mentioned this forum though I don’t think he posts. I know he’s not talking to his AP. Not even sure he actually set that up like he promised. I haven’t asked because I can’t deal with an honest answer.

but I do notice a difference lately. He has been more affectionate and open. His face shows desire now. He’s more productive and engaging in hobbies. He asked for less sex so he could approach with more desire and rebuild some of the connection with real sex. I know he’s learning and watching videos about the evils of p.

I can’t stop waiting for the other shoe to drop. I’m always waiting for a change in behavior. When I know he’s alone, I obsess over what he’s doing. I can’t sleep alone and I can’t focus on work because I’m so suspicious.

the worst part is that he lied knowing that it’s my biggest trigger. I went from a childhood with abusive narcissistic to a first marriage with an abusive narcissist. Not exaggerating; I’m talking gaslighting to the point I had no personality or interests, and I couldn’t even tell what was reality. It’s taken a decade to overcome this with weekly therapy. I still get afraid when I do something less than perfect, even for perfect strangers.

And knowing he did that to me too… I feel really off balance. All because he “liked doing it”. I’d consider leaving but like an ass, I still believe in him. But I am prepared to walk too. It feels like I have no more permanency. Again.

 

[Psalm27:1my light]

Haven’t wanted to comment but have been keeping up.

I really appreciate the women’s perspective here and it helps me define my own feelings. I also appreciate you men being so kind with your consolation and understanding. That’s so healing.

Whether or not it’s a direct comparison, it hurts. It does destroy trust. But honestly I knew something was going on.

what I don’t think my husband realized was that when he was in a phase of p use (he goes in and out depending on how much he’s motivated to change), he treated me differently. He doesn’t have the same look when he’s using. He doesn’t touch me non- sexually. Or sexually. He doesn’t initiate. He loses boners and tells me I’m not doing enough. It’s transactional and requires so many unnatural things that turned me off. He gets grumpy with me and seems like he kind of hates me. He lied about how nothing was different. I didn’t understand any of this until he confessed his habits and I said that I knew he was using p. He said he knew I knew and he lied anyway. For what reason? He literally said that it was just because he liked it.

That’s hard to forget. I think he’s doing okay. He mentioned this forum though I don’t think he posts. I know he’s not talking to his AP. Not even sure he actually set that up like he promised. I haven’t asked because I can’t deal with an honest answer.

but I do notice a difference lately. He has been more affectionate and open. His face shows desire now. He’s more productive and engaging in hobbies. He asked for less sex so he could approach with more desire and rebuild some of the connection with real sex. I know he’s learning and watching videos about the evils of p.

I can’t stop waiting for the other shoe to drop. I’m always waiting for a change in behavior. When I know he’s alone, I obsess over what he’s doing. I can’t sleep alone and I can’t focus on work because I’m so suspicious.

the worst part is that he lied knowing that it’s my biggest trigger. I went from a childhood with abusive narcissistic to a first marriage with an abusive narcissist. Not exaggerating; I’m talking gaslighting to the point I had no personality or interests, and I couldn’t even tell what was reality. It’s taken a decade to overcome this with weekly therapy. I still get afraid when I do something less than perfect, even for perfect strangers.

And knowing he did that to me too… I feel really off balance. All because he “liked doing it”. I’d consider leaving but like an ass, I still believe in him. But I am prepared to walk too. It feels like I have no more permanency. Again.

I’m old enough that when my husband and I married there wasn’t an easy way to access porn. So, although he was an addict, it was very, very limited use. Even then, it affected him. Looking back now, I can see the gradual changes as his ability to use became easier. I have told him , I will never live with an active addict again. Never. His utter selfishness that he was completely blind to was awful. I’d rather live in a hovel alone than ever live with someone like that.

 

[Deleted Account]

I used to tell myself it was ok to M and fantasize as long as I was thinking about my wife. But I found it disconnecting and I felt guilty. As I thought about it, I realized it was because even my thoughts about her weren’t really her. There was no connection, only orgasm.

Well put and I ended up feeling the same way. In my fantasy she’s always ready to do what I want, whenever I want, and how I want it. That’s not reality. That’s not me bonding with the real deal. It’s not like I ever had a fantasy where I wanted to have sex and in the fantasy she says no because she has a headache! lol. Fantasizing even about your partner has the same pornographic “all about me” spirit to it.

 

[Deleted Account]

My husband does know, and he is an addict too. So our relationship is a lot different from the typical SO relationship. I have a lot more understanding, because I'm in the same boat. Honestly, I find it really hard to post in the SO section or try to help people there, because I just can't relate to their pain or frustration anymore. I used to feel the same way they do, but now that I struggle with this myself, it's totally, completely different, and I completely understand when he says things like "it's nothing to do with you" or "I'm not comparing those women to you or thinking about them when I'm with you" etc. Before I thought that was impossible, but now I know that it's not, at all.

Hes actually sort of the "reason" I got into this mess. I dont like to phrase it that way, because I dont blame him. It was my choice. But the reason I first watched porn was because I wanted to understand what it was that was so addicting to him and everything else that was going through his head, because none of it made sense to me. At first I prayed a lot for understanding, but I got impatient waiting for God and de idea to seek answers on my own. And since God sometimes has a funny sense of humor I think, I found my answers... now I know exactly what goes on his mind, and I completely understand this addiction. Its unfortunate that I'm in this position now because of that, but at the same time, sometimes I struggle with the way people feel like "I wish I had never watched porn!" Because for me, if I had never done it, I might still feel like absolute shit about my relationship and, who knows, might not have even married him in the first place. So I dont know. In a weird way, I did get what I was looking for. But I'm sure God could have accomplished that in a much healthier way. Hes just so loving and has so much grace for us that He blessed me with those answers anyway, even though I was looking for them in the wrong place. And that's honestly astounding to me. I'm so grateful for that.

I went and dug up an old journal of a friend I used to have on here. She had really good perspective on both sides of the issue.
I miss her.

 

[CrushedandLeaving]

I've cruised through the women's sections. They regularly discuss how difficult it is to orgasm with a partner unless they're fantasizing about porn they've watched to get there. I also regularly see men say the same thing. Both say it's worse in active addiction. Addiction and lying go hand in hand. If I'm choosing whether to believe an addict is lying to minimize the impact of their addiction (or believing the lie themselves) or to believe that they're a unicorn who magically avoids a really common problem, I'm always going to err on the chance that they're lying.

Even earlier in this thread where someone (don't remember who, not going to track it down) said that they didn't compare because porn and partnered sex is totally different with totally different goals (distraction/orgasm vs intimacy) and all of the addicts practicing karezza and not orgasming during partnered sex don't seem to realize that they've completely separated their sexual experience from their partner. Their partner is there for emotional support and "intimacy", but they are actively acknowledging that they don't have the sexual drive for their partner that they did for porn. Imagine living like that. In a relationship where your partner actively does not desire you in the same way as they do a billion other people. They they didn't have the same sexually satisfying experience with you that they get from other people. They they have the common issue that they can't even get aroused with you IN PERSON and have to use medicine, but are driven wild by just the images of others. Their partner is their emotional support dog. How many addicts are going to be honest enough with ANYONE to admit that in those blatant words, even though physically it's happening in real time in front of both their faces?

 

[Deleted Account]

I've cruised through the women's sections. They regularly discuss how difficult it is to orgasm with a partner unless they're fantasizing about porn they've watched to get there. I also regularly see men say the same thing. Both say it's worse in active addiction. Addiction and lying go hand in hand. If I'm choosing whether to believe an addict is lying to minimize the impact of their addiction (or believing the lie themselves) or to believe that they're a unicorn who magically avoids a really common problem, I'm always going to err on the chance that they're lying.

Makes sense
Honestly for anyone it is much easier to just M if you want orgasm. Male or female. No hassle no worrying about another person. No vulnerability. It’s all in your brain and your thoughts.
If you’re just in it for the dopamine, it’s easy mode.
But it’s also like a drug and you build up tolerance.
I can’t imagine anyone that is in active addiction and it isn’t affecting their partnered sex in some way.
Even the “holy grail” of 90 days that gets discussed a lot here won’t be enough time to really purge the affects.
Vestiges infect your thinking for a long time. You may not be thinking about someone else during sex, but when you’re honest with yourself, you may not get the answer you want when you ask, “Why am I horny today?”
It may be something you saw or something you thought about that isn’t your partner.
It’s been years since active addiction for me and I still occasionally have to dig in and be very self aware.
My safe mode is to not try to initiate sex if I’m not sure where it’s coming from. When my wife initiates my response (mind and body) is immediate and there is no other thoughts involved. There are other times when I might try to interest her in some flirty way. Sometimes it works sometimes no. But I’ve checked my motives and the source ahead of time to see if it’s connection with her I’m seeking or maybe I need to do some other self-care instead.

 

[Meshuga]

Even the “holy grail” of 90 days that gets discussed a lot here won’t be enough time to really purge the affects.

90 days is only the beginning of recovery, and it’s a testament to the power of addiction how the vast majority of the men on this forum can’t reach even that.