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Discussion Forum or Echo Chamber?

Discussion in 'Off-topic Discussion' started by OneDayBoulangerie, Mar 21, 2021.

  1. OneDayBoulangerie

    OneDayBoulangerie New Fapstronaut

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    I know many of you think it's a fact that porn, masturbation, and ejaculation abstince improves your energy, hormones, etc.

    It's not.

    But you know what? That's okay, they're clearly not immediately harmful practises, and they may have one or more of the claimed effects.

    The problem is that, right now, this forum is not a discussion forum, rather it's an echo chamber, a dogma publisher.

    Categories for succes, categories for people logging their subscription to the dogma, categories for tips on all the practises. Not one categorie for discussion of the validity of the practises, for people's 'fail stories', etc.

    If you want to set yourself apart from the astrology, chiropractic, anti-vaxxer, crystal healing, QAnon like communities, you have to seperate scientifically backed claims from (argument-supported) hypotheses, present the opposing studies, and stop presenting only people with affirming views.

    What do you think?
    Should it change?
    Can it change?

    P.S. I am no-porn since October 2018 (840+ days), no-masturbation since November 2020 (110+ days). And while I think quitting porn was greatly beneficial for me, and I'm continuing no-masturbation (for personal reasons), I don't think any of the energy, hormone, etc. claims are likely true.
    I don't feel comfortable posting here (about my no-porn thoughts, succes), with the current state of the website. I imagine many others do too, and that's a shame.
     
  2. SickSicko

    SickSicko Fapstronaut

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    I don't think, I know.

    Are you just not contradicting yourself?
     
    arpegius likes this.
  3. I stopped using the term "porn addiction" in a clinical sense a long time ago because it isn't recognized as a behavioral disorder by the ICD or the DSM. There is not enough research to support some of the widely held claims about porn or masturbation on this site. I don't think porn or masturbation are inherently problematic, and even have plenty of benefits for many people. Impulse control is the real issue, and so most attacks against porn or masturbation are misdirected. So no, I don't subscribe to dogmatic beliefs.

    I understand your frustration with the pseudo-science and bigotry on this site. I would warn any trans or LGBT folks from posting here because non-hetero-conforming sexual identities are seen as problematic and directly related to porn. People say things like "you're not really gay, the porn just got to your head" which can be incredibly damaging.
     
    arpegius likes this.
  4. Anti-Hero

    Anti-Hero Fapstronaut

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    Of course you do.
    Dogma.
    Dogma.
    Dogma.
    [​IMG]
     
    The Great Safecracker likes this.
  5. I expect you to back that up in some way. Let's see what you have to say...

    Not dogma because I am just stating a fact about myself.

    Again not dogma, I'm just stating an opinion I have.

    Issuing a warning is not dogma because it isn't even a factual claim lol.

    It's not my job to teach you what dogma is but I encourage you to look it up.

    Also your pun was bad so I'm putting you on ignore.
     
    kropo82 likes this.
  6. AtomicTango

    AtomicTango Fapstronaut

    All I can say is that when I PMO I feel like shit. When I abstain I feel better. How else do you explain that? Its certainly not a placebo effect, I'd think I'd know if it was.

    I mean, I was going to write up a long diatribe about this but midway through I realised you are just wrong about this. People post criticism of NoFap all the time and I personally have been in loads of threads with people doing just that. Disagreement over practices does happen. I also disagree that the site publishes "dogma" when the official site explanations for a lot of its concepts are extremely milquetoast and open to interpretation. The site is not dogmatic, but many of its users may be. But at the end of the day thats their prerogative.

    I'm not opposed to people being against NoFap but I would have to question why those people would choose to come here to begin with? That kinda sounds like someone who is not an alcoholic turning up to an AA meeting just to criticise. Assholish at best and actively harmful at worst. This isnt a discussion forum, its intended for recovery for a specific group of people. Literally a "safe space" so to speak.

    Gonna echo sicksicko here and say this sounds like a contradiction. If anything this indicates to me, whether you intended it or not, that you think just because you didn't experience certain benefits it means they arent real. Please elaborate.

    If you want to post just post. There are people on here who I genuinely think have mental issues, you cant be worse than that right? ;)
     
    Candun likes this.
  7. This. End of thread. The goal of NoFap is to be a science-based support platform. If the community falls short of that intention, it's not NoFap's fault.
     
    CarP likes this.
  8. AtomicTango

    AtomicTango Fapstronaut

    Fellatious, my dude, are we using different sites? At least two of the mods that I know of are openly non-straight or non-gender conforming. Where are you seeing people saying these things? Are you referring to talking about HOCD?

    Also, you asked antihero to clarify his position, and then said you were putting him on ignore lol (unless that was a joke, forgive me its late where I am.)
     
    Candun likes this.
  9. Anti-Hero

    Anti-Hero Fapstronaut

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    Understandable.
    Yet you're convinced that those who disagree with your one and only correct opinion are dogmatic.

    You think you're smart and that's okay but take it easy, alright?
     
  10. Anti-Hero

    Anti-Hero Fapstronaut

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    There's a few dozen active members on this site. Kick out the nutters and you'll be left with a half of it or less.
     
  11. I'm pretty sure I've seen posts on one of the mods' profiles literally saying they need help from God for being LGBT or whatever. You are arguing in bad faith if you don't think there is a single example of LGBT people being mistreated on this site. You can't be serious.

    Lol you must be tired, go to bed. I literally never asked him clarify his position because his position is uninformed and I don't give a shit about hearing his explanation. What he did was basically just reply to my whole post by saying "Wrong." That's a one-way ticket to getting ignored by my rules.

    I'm also tired, and in no mood for debates. Peace.
     
  12. OneDayBoulangerie

    OneDayBoulangerie New Fapstronaut

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    EDIT: reply to SickSicko and AtomicTango (quotes got lost somehow)
    -----
    That is exactly the point. Even though I'm following some of the practises and believe they're beneficial, I clearly seperate science from opinion. My point is not about the efficacy of these things, it's about how the claims about it's efficacy are presented.

    And this is where this person
    goes wrong. That's not how placebo works. 'Certainly' is certainly the wrong word here. How you 'feel' about placebo has nothing to do with if it's present. Unfortunately, because otherwise scientists jobs would have been so easy.

    I put that p.s. in there because I knew otherwise people would (fallaciously) call me out that I should try it first, etc., which is irrelevant to the point.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2021
  13. OneDayBoulangerie

    OneDayBoulangerie New Fapstronaut

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    I'm afraid you don't understand what dogma means.
     
    fredisthebes likes this.
  14. fredisthebes

    fredisthebes Fapstronaut

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    I think a discussion forum is only as varied as the members who use it. Ultimately people come here and join it because they believe themselves to be porn and/or masturbation addicts, and they have already decided to quit. If there don't appear to be many people here arguing the opposing side (although, a surprisingly high number do), I guess that is because most happy masturbating porn users aren't clicking on a website called 'nofap.com'.

    I have to say in my experience everyone's motives are very personal, some are here purely for personal growth, others for religious or (quasi-)spiritual reasons. Personally I am here to improve my relationship and sex life. So naturally I am not going to have a lot in common with the rather large contingent of people on here who have sworn off women and sex forever. We tend to focus on what we have on common because that is helpful, that is community. It's not high school (mass) debating society.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2021
    Candun likes this.
  15. AtomicTango

    AtomicTango Fapstronaut

    I didn't say that though. I'm not trying to come across as hostile because I like your contributions to this site but I have noticed you sometimes paint the site as being some sort of cesspit and in my experience, apart from a few users, it really isnt like that. I've had many arguments with idiots here but those arguments were almost never about anything related to being bigoted, apart from one instance. I dont want to rope you into an argument if you really dont want one but at least clarify this point for me; where are you actually seeing people say these things? Do you have any examples?

    I mean you did ask him to "back up" what he said. I assume you were being facetious but still, things like that are hard to convey over text.
     
    Candun likes this.
  16. AtomicTango

    AtomicTango Fapstronaut

    Yep lol, nothing else needs to be said about this really.
     
    fredisthebes and Candun like this.
  17. AtomicTango

    AtomicTango Fapstronaut

    I'm just gonna come out and ask; why are you here at all? Did you seriously make an account just to post this thread and then barely engage with any of the people replying to you? What are you actually trying to accomplish?

    FYI: You can quote parts of replies by highlighting them and clicking "quote." Makes it easier to keep up with what you are saying to who.
     
    Candun likes this.
  18. OneDayBoulangerie

    OneDayBoulangerie New Fapstronaut

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    About the quotes: I know, I messed something up in my first reply.
    I did reply to you claiming that my last paragraph seemed to contradict the rest of my post.

    I agree to an extent, but I think it's undeniable that the structure of the website and forum play some role.
    There are always things they could try to counter some unwanted behaviour patterns, be it adding flags to posts, or bringing opposing views to the front (even if you have to construct them yourself, if the community doesn't provide them), etc.

    This is just what I think would be healthy for the community, and in general all of the online communities. As you say, I'm not an active member (altough my account is a couple months old), I just wanted to present my opinion, which would perhaps catalyze some thoughts in the community and owners.
     
  19. Please allow me to subtly slip into the conversation to firmly and vehemently say that if that was me that posted it, please do report the message in question and I will slam my hand on the table requiring proper punishment because that is absolutely out of the question for me to even think of something even remotely along the lines of this.

    Unfortunately, this forum is located on the Internet, and so, obviously, there will always be rotten people. Addiction also plays a role in this. As a mod I am please asking everyone reading this to have the reflex to report messages you deem homophobic. Being bisexual myself, I absolutely draw the line at homophobia. It is not tolerated in the forum rules either.

    Also, I would like to reiterate my number one rule for navigating the Internet: if you're nice to people, they'll be nice to you. Treat people kindly, and they will treat you kindly.

    Have a great day guys, very interesting convo tbh, let's all remain civil and calm :)
     
    FellatiousD and Candun like this.
  20. I would appreciate if you could detail this, we always are interested in ways to make the forum a better, more equal and safer place. The best way to contribute is by reporting though. Mods are humans, not bots, and some posts slip through.
     
    Candun likes this.

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