Do PA deserve to be cheated on?

Discussion in 'Rebooting in a Relationship' started by Deleted Account, Sep 7, 2018.

Do PA deserve to be cheated on?

  1. Yes

    5 vote(s)
  2. No

    33 vote(s)
  1. Queenie%Bee

    Queenie%Bee Fapstronaut

    He has said it directly after DDAYS . While not in any kind of recovery. It’s like I can’t even present “ put yourself in my shoes “ to him Because he can’t picture me being anything but loyal and honest , I can’t say the same about him . That’s where REAL empathy has come in , something I feel is crucial to recovery, maybe even more so than reading a PA book .
    Trappist likes this.
  2. 0111zerozero11

    0111zerozero11 Fapstronaut

    Let's turn it around in hopes some of us SOs can understand the PA point of view. This is an awesome topic & I'm noticing a trend; the PAs say a PA addiction would be easier to handle than "revenge" physical infidelity by SO. The SOs are saying the opposite. *it should be noted, the PA can't possibly understand what we, as the SOs, have been through (unless they've gotten to the point in recovery that they've developed empathy for us, in which case, I would expect them to share the opinions of the SOs). Likewise, the SO can't possibly understand what the PA has gone through (unless they too, have gone far enough in their own healing to have empathy for the PA, in which case, I would think they'd not budge on their prior opinion PA>revenge affair) *I have come to the emathy part in my healing. Knowing this, I still have the opinion PA should/would be harder to get over/recover from than a revenge affair* anyhoooo....
    For the PAs that believe it would be harder to deal with a revenge, sexual affair (most likely a one time event, because you're wife will probably feel absolutely horrible after the affair & not do it again).

    1. How could/should it NOT be easier for someone to get over their SO having a physical affair? What would make it harder to get over?
    2. What makes the physical act worse than PA?
  3. I can't answer this questions. I haven't been on both sides.

    I can say that I didn't put my D in anyone so there is no need for STD checks. My wife looking at P doesn't gross me out. I think some other guys D in my wife would make me feel gross or repulsed by my wife. Won't really know until it happens though right?

    Those are the differences to me. Im not saying these differences invalidate any feelings of the SO.

    What I did is inexcusable and so wrong on so many levels.
  4. Maybe the love I have for my wife would outshine this event should it ever happen but it's so hard to see.
  5. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    Anytime you were "with" a screen, your hand was the V substitute.
    Were you "with" those women /pixels?
    Your reward circuit /brain addiction says as it went around, that you were... 100% there.
    That's the truth.
    Why do you think VR is so popular?
    It doesn't even need to be..
    The brain is magnificent all on its own.
    Some say "at least they didn't cheat" as if the physical house of the body Actually makes a huge difference...
    Maybe for some, it does.
    But.... If the table was turned....
    Would You want to cheat on female if she was destroying your relationship with outside sex or porn if you* were the faithful one...
    Always waiting for her and she was always too tired from her outside affairs?
    And this was Your discovery?
    Really look within and ask yourself...
    Are you not that vindictive?
  6. 0111zerozero11

    0111zerozero11 Fapstronaut

    Touchdown. It takes a special kind of person/counselor to realize empathy for eachother should be the foundation for recovery. I fully believe you can't begin to heal/recover from a situation such as PA in a relationship, until you learn/are taught how to have empathy for your partner. Only then, will a person fully understand cause & effect; example:

    Convo between PA & SO w/ NO empathy:
    SO to PA: you make me sick, you worthless liar. You make me feel horrible about myself. PA to SO: I wasn't doing it on purpose, so I don't know why you don't feel pretty. Why do you cry all the time? I'm 87 days PMO free, so why are you still having triggers?

    Convo between PA & SO WITH empathy:
    SO to PA: I'm really sorry you were so hurt by someone/something, you felt you needed to find comfort in PA. I understand you love me & think I'm beautiful; you weren't doing this to hurt me. PA to SO: thank you for understanding my addiction & supporting me. I made you develop self-esteem issues by my actions. What can I do to help you feel beautiful again; because you are beautiful & I want you to feel proud.

    Empathy is that last, missing puzzle piece some partners in recovery/healing seem to still be looking for. It should have been the first piece they pulled out of the box....we all learn eventually :emoji_face_palm:
    Rehab101, Katrina Rose and oreogirl like this.
  7. I feel like my answer to this question is no as long as it was only P that was involved. No doubt it would hurt like hell along with all the other affects that come with PA induced betrayal trauma. To be vindictive enough to actually want to go out and screw someone is beyond me.
  8. Jason_Tesla_19

    Jason_Tesla_19 Fapstronaut

    Porn isn't a physical affair, and doesn't subject the SO to risks of disease. Porn is about on par with an emotional affair. Physical affairs have the risk of STDs and pregnancy. Repaying a porn user with disease and pregnancy risk is escalation, IMHO. If a woman got back at a man for his porn use by having an emotional affair, I think that would be fair, but unhelpful for reconciliation.
    Tryingforfamily likes this.
  9. signmeup

    signmeup Fapstronaut

    If my SO said they had an affair because I was using porn I’d call BS.

    Watching porn and having a physical relationship are two different things, if they weren’t then I’d have a Tinder account.

    Whether the partnership would survive this betrayal would depend on other factors in the relationship.

    If the SO is not interested in an intimate relationship with their PA but then steps out then that may have different outcomes to say a relationship where the PA is not interested in an intimate relationship and the SO steps out.

    If porn is put ahead of the relationship then there is an issue, if porn is used to fill a gap in the relationship then there is an issue, basically if there’s a significant amount of porn which impacts on a relationship then it’s time to quit porn but if either partner is stepping out to have a physical relationship then chances are there is something that needs to be addressed outside of porn.
  10. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    I think everyones definition of "cheating" comes into play very heavily to answer this particular question.
    Because most men only consider a physical congress to be cheating.
    Hence why porn became the mistress of the relationship in the first place.
  11. Jennica

    Jennica Fapstronaut

    Well as someone who has had to deal with ONS, emotional affair and PA. There isn’t one that is better or worse. It’s all cheating, it all hurts and they all have ramifications and consequences. Betrayal is betrayal!

    As far as a one night stand goes they are not a mistake, people don't have them by accident, it’s decision to act on an impulse just like any other form of cheating. I can certainly tell you it hurts no less then any other form. As I told my husband when he said “it was a mistake”, “No one trips and falls into a vagina”. The reality for me is I could have delt with just straight up Porn so much easier and not had to deal with any of the other acting out, that’s just out of hindsight. I would have taken just porn over the others any of the day of week. Even though after 18 years together the porn in of its self certainly was an affair.

    I know after his ONS I felt dirty, almost contaminated by the OP especially when they return to you like it never happened. Getting tested for STD’s because your beloved SO decided to have one and you can’t trust they used any kind of protection or caution, because well they chose to through caution in to the wind to have a ONS in first place. Sitting there in front of your doctor having to tell them why you want the full STD testing for absolutely everything was an incredibly humiliating experience. I was in tears the whole time and that was just a few hours out of one day following the aftermath of his ONS. I felt so incredibly violated that he could even touch me after he had been with someone else. There are a plethora of feelings that go through you because of ONS. A person can forgive and move forward from any kind of cheating, as we have been. When it comes down to it, not one is better than the other, some situations may be easier to accept or forgive but they really don’t hurt any less.

    In the aftermath I did have fleeting thoughts of revenge sex when I was at peak anger during the roller coaster of emotions. But I knew that was something I couldn’t do and with the level of mistrust I had for everyone I knew wouldn’t be able to go through with it anyway. The last thing I wanted was another man to touch me. I also couldn’t put someone I loved and cared for through any of that, even with as angry and hurt as I was for a very long time.
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2018
    Trappist, oreogirl, Moon Shot and 3 others like this.
  12. Penelope

    Penelope Fapstronaut

    I believe what you need to ask yourself is why would you want to have a Tinder account in the first place, if your SO is the "THE ONE"? I see this thing going on all the time, why you as a man think that you would be entitled to having a Tinder account, looking at girls on the street, fantasizing about other women, or watching P all while you are with a person you probably say you love. This question goes for anyone who would like to illuminate me. Thanks.
  13. Banjaxed

    Banjaxed Fapstronaut

    Interesting take. I’m glad this topic came up because I’ve been wanting to ask about it.

    I discovered my wife was having an emotional affair (nothing physical she claims) a couple of months before d-day. I experienced my own version of trickle truth but eventually she confessed to disclosing intimate details about the marriage, agreeing wih the other guy that they were falling in love and contemplated leaving me for him. Now in the immediate aftermath I accepted her reasons, largely my emotional unavailability and lack of support which was brought into stark relief following a bereavement for her. The PA no doubt played a role in this.

    This was a real shock for both of us as loyalty had been one of her most important qualities (and what she looked for in others). I know she feels angry and intense disappointment in herself.

    I have used porn during the entirety of our 18 year relationship. My wife knew about It but never said anything at the time (she has post d—day). Fast forward to now, post d-day and I am intensely aware of my betrayal (of her). As well as the work on my own recovery which is in its early stages (I am only 3 months sober) I have been reading books, videos and devouring SO journals here to try and understand how my wife might be feeling and how to help her heal. I have been trying my very best to act accordingly.

    Where i struggle slightly is that she is doing nothing on her side, whether as to her own recovery (something that I know I have no place to interfere really) but also in recognition that I have also been betrayed. She won’t even stop being friends with the guy, merely says the relationship with him has changed, yet I know they still message frequently (and that she deletes the messages). They are both full time parents and circumstances throw them together quite a lot - my kids have revealed that he’s been round the house (with his kids), they’ve all been for walks together etc

    None of this impacts on my own recovery. I have no thoughts of revenge or otherwise. As the PA I also accept that I have zero moral standing in the relationship at this point. And where I have gotten to is that who am I to suggest indignation at her behaviour. I am trying to just be available, consistent, transparent, supportive and calm. Ultimately I have handed control over our future To my wife - it is her decision to take and for my part I am just trying to make her want to be with me.

    Nevertheless, in certain moments it does feel like her EA and continuing behaviour feels like an obstacle to the recovery of our marriage. It’s hard to fully open up to someone that you don’t fully trust (sound familiar SOs?!)
    Tryingforfamily likes this.
  14. signmeup

    signmeup Fapstronaut

    Where is the boundary between faithful and unfaithful?

    Some people feel that having a conversation with someone of the opposite sex is being unfaithful, most people would agree that scenario would indicate an issue with one partner being over possessive and controlling.

    I’ve heard some women say, ‘it doesn’t matter where he gets his appetite as long as he eats at home’ in other words if he likes looking at other women then that’s fine as long as he takes it not further.

    Is porn simply whetting ones appetite or is it crossing the line?

    That really depends on what is accepted in the relationship. I’m sure their are couples who watch porn together and/or are happy for their partner to indulge, yet there are others who rate porn as the ultimate betrayal.

    I’m fifty-three, I’ve been married for thirty years, I love my wife but I struggled with porn, it’s crazy and difficult for someone who sees things as either black or white but loving someone and watching porn are not mutually exclusive.
  15. I think one issue is that we assume our partners share the same views and levels of love, loyalty, and commitment. So often that is not the case. From everything I’ve read here and on other sites, it makes a strong case for discussing what those terms mean to you and your expectations within the relationship. This includes P, ogling, flirting, fantasizing, etc.

    Many people normalize some if not all of those things and consider them no big deal. To think otherwise is seen by them as insecure and controlling. I would argue it’s more a matter of reciprocity and respect. If I don’t look at others for sexual gratification because I consider that being unfaithful to the relationship, I don’t want to be with someone who is just fine with it.

    It’s an example of a bad fit - neither side is necessarily wrong, just incompatible.
    Jennica and Penelope like this.
  16. Penelope

    Penelope Fapstronaut

    I am guessing that there are some women that reason as you said. The problem however rises when the man who as you say gets his apetite somewhere else wastes all his energy chasing the "treats" that he gets the appetite from and never satisfies his hunger with the one who is there for him day after day. When he feels entitled to get his appetite from everywhere but his woman. I am sure you love your wife, but do you really want to bring something so degrading as porn to your relationship? Something that eats up your soul and your mind, teaches men that women are just objects whose only purpose is to satisfy a man, that it is ok to choke, slap, name call, degrade...that it is ok to have girls that are barely legal if legal at all exposed on the screen for your mere pleasure, to coerce and mistreat, to have sex with daughters, sisters, mothers...if you believe that that is what "spices up" the relationship and makes your "appetite" grow that is you. I cannot even imagine how thing like that can be paired with love.
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2018
  17. Compartmentalization. It’s what enables addiction and seems to be a more common ability in men. Sometimes I wish I had more of that ability. Life might be simpler in some ways.

    I have also wondered at that separation of love and desire in many relationships. Compartmentalizating each so one can gain comfort and support and whatnot from their partner while satisfying their sexual needs elsewhere. It seems like that’s half-assing your commitment to the relationship and what you’re bringing to the table. This goes for both men and women, though again probably is more prevalent in men/addicts who can make such divisions in their relationships and lives.
  18. To answer the original question, though, no one deserves to be betrayed. No one. Sometimes it feels like might be the only way to force empathy upon a partner who cannot escape the PA or SA fog. I totally get it. I just couldn’t do it, it’s too against my values and I would forever feel guilty. As a PP said, two wrongs do not make a right. But I do understand the temptation.
    Jennica, Trappist and Jason_Tesla_19 like this.
  19. Queenie%Bee

    Queenie%Bee Fapstronaut

    The only thing I’ve had to compartmentalize in my marriage is my feelings after DDAY ironically . He asked me a year ago “ I thought we were in a good place ?? “ soooo I said “ I WAS ABLE TO COMPARTMENTALIZE MY FEELINGS TO ENJOY THAT MOVIE OR THAT DINNER , just as you could put your porn addiction in a little box to still be able to be a husband/father I did the same with my anger /hurt/sadness “
  20. Great focus, that last question!

    So many societal norm changes through the last few generations.
    Lead to various rationalizations for sexually behavioral experimentation.

    Open marriage, moral relativism.
    What is a ‘mother’ to do?

    60’s, Ken Kesey Acid test, sexual revolution 70’s, P, for quick examples.

    Evolution is hard on the ones that try something that does not confer survivability.

    Our work here points to costs of P
    To relationships and as a ‘gateway’ furthering acting out.

    Someone once noted that,
    If nothing else,
    his life is an example
    of what not to do.

    This: let more of our experience be known, so people can choose better.
    And protect and guide the young.
    (Nephew now in texting trouble)

    On the other hand
    nothing is really
    new under the sun
    And here we are again.
    Jennica likes this.

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