Do you smoke marijuana?

Discussion in 'Off-topic Discussion' started by MetalHeader, Mar 19, 2018.

  1. Toomuchh

    Toomuchh Fapstronaut

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    This conversation keeps going no where because you keep making these straw man stances. I think smoking weed is bad and people shouldn't do it. WTF are you talking about honest people getting murdered in mexico. If you want to talk about people being murder in mexico maybe you bring your attention to real issues like "The issue that has not been addressed in the last few years is the continued flow of U.S. arms to Mexico and the ease with which you can buy firearms in the U.S. that are fueling violence in Mexico". Where do I blame government for making cannabis illegal. You completely ignored the fact that "We conclude that prohibition is not only ineffective, but counterproductive, at achieving the goals of policymakers both domestically and abroad. Given the insights from economics and the available data, we find that the domestic War on Drugs has contributed to an increase in drug overdoses and fostered and sustained the creation of powerful drug cartels". For why war on drugs was a failure, but you say it's because it non strict enough. https://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/four-decades-counting-continued-failure-war-drugs

    If the logic "that the difficulty or expense in enforcing something or the fact that it is 'widespread' are not moral reasons to shrug one's shoulders and give up" holds true, then it is also true that it is not immoral to change your approach for a better chance of solving real problems when war on a drugs has shown to be a failure to accomplish any of their objectives. And you ignore the facts where I talk about how families are affected during war on drugs, you only talk about expenses because that's the only thing that might support your not moral argument, but when you focus on how it negatively affect peoples because of war on drugs, it actually becomes more of an immoral thing to not legalize weed when there is an alternative approach, because you are fucking over so many lives. But even then, your moral argument is on the basis that because something is not moral, we shouldn't do it, which I would like to point out, that just because something is not moral, doesn't make it immoral, but possibly amoral. But if you are trying say legalizing weed is immoral, then please explain how. Your logic and reasoning is flawed. It just caters to your own self interest rather than logic and reason. Just because someone doesn't agree with you, doesn't instantly make them immoral, please get off your high horse.

    And in your article RIGHT BEFORE YOUR QUOTE it says "Since then, the DEA has only issued a single license for the cultivation of marijuana for research, to the University of Mississippi, which is funded through a NIDA contract." A single license. I never said it was impossible, but rather difficult for many researchers. Which the fact that they only gave one license supports my argument.

    And I understand it's hard for you to read between the lines, but besides the paperwork canada has to go through which "Researchers who want to access marijuana for experiments must apply for a special exemption from Health Canada for each individual compound from the plant they hope to study, of which there are hundreds — including those that have no known intoxicating effects, like CBD" which isn't a trivialized process you make it sound to be.
    "If approved, they must navigate the opaque and expensive world of acquiring these compounds. And even though legalization seems certain to boost what is already one of the world’s highest national marijuana usage rates, scientists say there is not enough funding to study how the drug impacts health, behaviour and the brain" which means that they need money to also do this research because of how expensive illegal and controlled substances are, not even considering the process which they need to go through to acquire the substances. (and they also have to be consistent so that they can make conclusive evidence. Which all becomes easier when it's legal.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK425757/
    CONCLUSION 15-1 There are specific regulatory barriers, including the classification of cannabis as a Schedule I substance, that impede the advancement of cannabis and cannabinoid research.15
    CONCLUSION 15-2 It is often difficult for researchers to gain access to the quantity, quality, and type of cannabis product necessary to address specific research questions on the health effects of cannabis use.
    CONCLUSION 15-3 A diverse network of funders is needed to support cannabis and cannabinoid research that explores the harmful and beneficial health effects of cannabis use.

    But yeah, it's just simple paperwork herp derp.


    In what delusional world do you live in for you to think that people will support a policy where any drug use means you will be executed. Please tell me if you live in the same american society I live in. Because it's not a realistic thing that would happen. How is that going to go through congress/parliament. And I'm gonna humor you here, because it's true, strict enforcement for street possession will clean up streets. Look at the Philippines, they just started killing off people and drugs are less of a problem. But then there's the civil unrest, the question of ethics and morality. But yeah completely applicable approach for democratic society. Yeah cause killing people is the moral way for us to solve our problems. How do you suggest we create this strict enforcement culture you so wish to see. I can agree with you there, but I don't see how it is possible for this enforcement to be accepted. How would this be implemented and are you really suggesting people be executed for small use of drugs. The problem with this argument is the moral implications. Some people are drug addicts, like porn addicts, are you suggesting they be executed for something they can't help but do.

    I feel you like you live detached from reality.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2018
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  2. I believe it's failure because, yes it is not strict enough, especially for small amounts, and there is an unwillingness by those in power to enforce existing laws- just like there is an unwillingness to enforce border law. The claim is 'its hopeless' which is part of the argument to legalize it, and in the case of the latter, advocate open borders (which Cato and other globalists also advocate).

    But again:
    a. just because its hard or expensive to enforce something should not be the criteria for determining the worth of enforcing it.
    b. I see no GOOD reason to make cannabis legal.
    c. just because legal things have bad effects on us, doesn't mean we should make more things legal that are bad for us.
    Judges, journalists who take on drug cartels are murdered by said drug cartels.
    Who is pulling the trigger and why? But according to your logic, I guess, since we can't control the flow of firearms, why bother to even try?

    strict enforcement, and will. Main stream media, our elite, will throw the book at anyone they suspect of violating political orthodoxy by say making a 'homophobic' comment, yet we smell cannabis smoke everywhere..


    Fine license more research fields - that's not an argument to simply make it legal for everyone. But as I also mentioned, its legal in places like holland and plenty of opportunity to study it.
     
  3. what possible positive effect on our society is there to make this drug legal for 'recreation'?

    Medical, as I mentioned, I understand, and if worthwhile things can be extracted from it, fine.


    But people in America smoke it, knowing where it come from and their habit supports violence, murder, corruption. That's 100% inexcusable for something done for 'recreation' which is why I will stick to my guns and say that pot smokers are immoral and selfish.

    Yes, we all have things in our house or things we eat that are probably coming from somewhere where people are being exploited, but necessities are one thing - and we can mitigate, - recreation is inexcusable.
     
  4. Toomuchh

    Toomuchh Fapstronaut

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    a. it's because it not working.
    b. I made a bunch of good reasons why to make cannabis legal, you just choose to ignore them.
    c. just because something is bad for you doesn't mean we should make it illegal. Sugar is the worst thing people can consume, should we make that illegal too.

    Doesn't legalizing weed take away power from drug cartels that sell and grow weed? I don't know, who is pulling the trigger and why? you tell me if you have all the answers.

    I'll humor you again, if strict enforcement is why war on drugs fail, you have to fix that part (having strict enforcement) for the war on drugs to be a success. I'll ask you again, in what world do you live in, is that feasible. It's clear to see the public sentiment is overwhelmingly in the favour of weed and that harsh punishments for just smoking weed is unreasonable and unethical. So there is no way for "strict enforcement" to actually happen. So what you're saying about continuing prohibition is bound to fail, which is why it has been failing for the past four decades. But hey man, you keep living in lalaland, while you ignore the reality that is so harsh to you.

    Fine license more research fields? Is this even a sentence.

    Anyway lets agree to disagree, I don't think we will ever find a common ground. You already made your decision to live in a world that makes villains of people that smoke weed. It's ironic that you are someone who is here doing noFap but give little to no empathy to drug addicts. You'd rather condemn than help them.
     
  5. Yes, it is, that's the point. A massive cultural shift in the 1960s - was driven by the media and news industries and a certain segment of the rich and powerful, for their own ends. Its known that certain factions without our government and elite 'foment revolution in foreign countries, what's the stop them from doing it here? Why all the top down support for gay marriage, for example against the will of the people?
    On that, we can agree.
     
  6. I have not ignored them I specifically told you they are not good reasons, in fact in some cases the worst justification possible for legalizing something.
    So would strict enforcement. and no it wouldn't take away power anymore than legalized pharmaceuticals do.
    I have asked you, repeatedly, a question you refuse to answer WHY?
     
  7. Wow
     
  8. Well amphetamines (aka legal versions of meth) are perscribed all the time by doctors to help people...take Adderall for one so it alledgedly has some benefits
     
  9. Good lets start pulling tax dollars from it and stop wasting tax dollars throwing people in jail for it.
    And hey I like the medical effects Ive seen from it...my grandpa getting prescribed and finally regaining his appetite. My uncles uses it for pain and tremors from his ALS.
    But whatever Im entitled to my opinion and you yours, Jumbojet.
     
  10. Haha first you brought up and and second never said I was really interested in meth and yea the street version can have a lot of contaminents in it, but essentially the base of the two drugs is the same.

    My only point was that meth and Adderall are actually very similar and have some side-effects targeted by the medical communities tontreat ailments.

    "On a molecular level, Adderall and methamphetamine are very closely related. Scientifically, amphetamines are known as methylated phenylethylamine."-https://www.thecabinchiangmai.com/is-adderall-the-same-as-meth/

    Also Adderall does sell like hot cakes on the black market. Great Netflix documentary called 'take your pills'
     
  11. creating wealth at the expense of addiction, poor health and expense of others, just like the opioid crisis.
     
  12. not to help people, to help pharmaceutical companies.
    see arguments above- do you at all see a moral hazard when the government starts making money off of people's vices?
    it's not 'wasting' tax dollars to fight the spread of dangerous and unhealthy drugs. By your 'argument' we should make heroin legal.
     
  13. Witchetty_Grub

    Witchetty_Grub Fapstronaut

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    @MetalHeader
    Yes and yes, it should be legal. However, from personal experience, it should be taken moderately.

    I had many personal mental conversations with myself that include, but not limited to:
    -The representation of eagles/hawks compared to lions in National or Royal emblems; Lions represent loyalty, where eagles/hawks represent freedom and limitlessness.

    -The philosophy of sin and how it's passions drive our ambition to either our desired goals or ruin; a focus on moderation.

    -How the main thing politics and religion have in common is "belief" and how it affects many people from high positions to lowly citizens; and when I say belief, I mean how ones personal experiences can drive a person's conviction and just.

    -(Speaking of justice) How justice is represented as neutral element rather than either good or evil; and how it is influence by a person's belief and conviction, regardless of fairness and morality.

    I mean, these aren't something that's suppossed to be taken seriously. It's just an example of my personal conversations (please don't get angry at me, don't mean to bring in any controversial stuff) People are from all walks of life, and other peoples beliefs and opinions are something to be respected as it shows a form of unique free thought. Not something to be blindly bashed at, but carefully studied and compared with others to find potential common ground.

    I apologise if its a bit to much. I don't mean to digress or disrespect anyones personal opinion in any way. Its the untapped philosophy, self-discovery, and wisdom that I like the most out of cannabis, aside from making me more or less better in video games.

    I had to stop recently after having a fapping accident whilst under the influence of alcohol and cannabis and haven't smoked since then.

    Again, I apologise for sharing my opinion.
    I mean no disrespect in anyway shape or form or abstract. But yea, weed should be legalized and explored at one's volition. Good shit!
     
  14. I dont smoke anything anymore, instead i make teas out of it nowadays :) feels so much more clean and less junkie :)
     
  15. Buddhabro

    Buddhabro Fapstronaut

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    I smoked marijuana for various reasons throughout my life, mostly because I felt that it helped to make life better for myself.
    At first it brought me peace and joy; a respite from a stressful life. Next, as I began working day and night, I used it to wind down and get the rest and relaxation I required to meet the demands of my work.
    Lastly, I indulged to escape the negativity and sadness of my circumstances. During this time, I was very stressed and depressed. I smoked to develop my appetite and to get into a healthy mindset. After smoking, I was able to escape from my depressed and negative mindset; where I would wonder why I was being bad to myself.
    Bottom line is it always seemed to help.
    The bad news is that it has lost its ability to make me feel better the past few days, and felt like a very unhealthy behavior. To be specific, smoking led to coughing fits where I felt like I was going to pass out, have a stroke, or expire.
    As much as I enjoyed smoking, I enjoyed not smoking equally as much. In other words, I don’t feel like a druggy or a simple stoner. I used it to improve my life and sad now that it can’t help me.
    I suppose that the reason is that I have been abusing it, and not experiencing the goodness of a clean and natural high. Lately there is no joy or happiness available to me due to my circumstances and proclivity for depression.
    I hope to smoke again, but for now, I need to press the reset button.
    Finally, the commercialization of marijuana is very disappointing to me. I’d rather it be propagated as the highly beneficial plant that it is through grassroots (lol) means and not as a commodity. Ideally, people would teach one another to grow and use it to capitalize on its many benefits to improve their lives.
    I don’t need another store I have to buy things from. But with that said, just because I wanna be able to grow and supply for my needs, doesn’t mean I won’t appreciate being able to get access to a variety of herb and the convenience of running to a dispensary if I needed to.
    I’m convinced that the most sure fire way to ruin the goodness that marijuana has to offer is to make it a commodity and turn it into a industry/business.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2018
  16. pezzer

    pezzer Fapstronaut

    that shit just increased my anxiety, made me so fucking paranoid i wouldn't leave the house and really just screwed up my whole self esteem for a while. I was such a mess, my friends can be witnesses to that, i would never want to leave my bedroom and i think i developed some kind of mental state from it. Although its all personal so i may just be a paranoid person, i can't see myself ever going back to it
     
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  17. noonoon

    noonoon Fapstronaut

    I smoked when I was younger and was around loads of people who smoked to varying degrees. I can’t think of a single person who was made a better person for it. Far more often it truly was “a gateway drug” to other things. I used to laugh at that line but now believe it has some validity.

    It’s a crutch, a mind number, and unless you have cancer or something, stay away from it imo. Of course, I drink beer recreationally so there’s that. I still have lots of friends who do smoke, but again can’t think of a single person who isn’t worse off for it.
     
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  18. LEPAGE

    LEPAGE Fapstronaut

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    As I stated earlier in this thread, I have never toked. I will say though that I too have observed that I have never seen anyone whose life was improved by weed. I don't know any terminally ill people who used it medicinally; only folks who use it recreationally. Many of those I know who smoke or smoked weed had adverse effects. I know one who became schizophrenic. Many of the people I know cannot function mentally without it anymore. Some are so into the hippy weed culture that they forget personal hygiene and cannot hold down the low level service jobs they happen to get by some miracle because they are more preoccupied with getting high than showing up to work as scheduled.

    I'm still looking for a good reason for why the joints look like they were rolled by chimpanzees during some dexterity test put on by researchers at the zoo. You can get setup with decent rolling equipment for about twenty bucks.
     
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  19. LEPAGE

    LEPAGE Fapstronaut

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    Two days until weed liberation here in Canuckistan. Still have no desire at all to try it.
     
  20. lucentio

    lucentio Fapstronaut

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    Big Pharma is against legalization because it will hurt it's opioid business. The liquor industry is against it for the same reason.
     

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