Do you value truth over feeling ?

Discussion in 'Off-topic Discussion' started by need4realchg, Aug 22, 2019.

  1. need4realchg

    need4realchg Fapstronaut



    Have you read the popular Christian youth-leader favorite book? “I kissed dating goodbye”? Josh Harris...

    I not only read it eagerly but also recommended it to many friends when I or they were considering getting married.

    I’m Crushed to hear the author (I assume who is now rich and famous) has shelved the Christian beliefs that led him to create a counter-culture revolution in dating.

    I would still suggest the ideas he present on anti-dating are the best and biblical way for my son to use, but I don’t do them at all in practice. I struggle with the disparity this creates.

    It’s a classic truth versus feeling conflict , I wonder how do we overcome It?

    One of my favorite Jewish and conservative thinkers and Radio host Dr. Dennis Praeger says good behaviors lead to good feelings but I stumble with this .

    How do we uphold truth when we feel so distinctly?

    Is upholding truth when we feel numb to its blessings just a regular day in the life of a hypocrite ?
     
  2. jk243

    jk243 Fapstronaut

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    Good book but sadly Harris has divorced and quit christianity
     
  3. jk243

    jk243 Fapstronaut

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    Our feelings change. Sincerely, I don't always trust myself, my heart can be wrong and my brain is not perfect. Truth never change, always the same, despite different times.
     
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  4. Hros

    Hros Fapstronaut

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    I'm not entirely sure who this Josh Harris is (even after googling him), also not so sure what you mean by this:
    In this context,
    But have you thought of the possibility that Harris realized he was wrong? And that just because you thought his book was right, doesn't mean it's necessarily an absolute truth?
     
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  5. jk243

    jk243 Fapstronaut

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    He said himself he was wrong by some points. Sadly he quit (temporary I hope) Christianity.
     
  6. Hros

    Hros Fapstronaut

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    What I meant was that @need4realchg wrote he was "crushed" and that I assume came with great disbelief. But should one really be so shocked at this? Harris presented one worldview twenty-something years ago. People change over time.
    And now I understand the part about truth vs feelings. If his view's on this subject have changed, then obviously it's no longer true, at least for him. If someone were to address his current concerns, he may be convinced to get back to his old view, but right now he seems to see too many problems.
     
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  7. need4realchg

    need4realchg Fapstronaut

    That’s the point of the thread.
    The guy was a hero for me.

    But he is struggling and out of step with his former beliefs (as I am).

    I am just asking : when your feelings hijack your mind , do you stay with what you believed was right once upon a time ? Or do you ditch it for your feelings ?
     
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  8. MLMVSS

    MLMVSS Fapstronaut

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    Feelings are subjective; truth is objective. But feelings are also personalised while the truth isn’t. In that way feelings can lead to the truth, but feelings can also lead us to any wrong direction.
     
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  9. brilliantidiot

    brilliantidiot Fapstronaut

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    Feelings tend to be fickle and lead us astray.

    If every time in your life you obeyed your feelings over what you know is true, you would probably be in jail or at least a very sick person.
     
  10. jk243

    jk243 Fapstronaut

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    Dépends, you know everytime we change we become better or worse. Somebody can run from the truth or go towards it. For him, I didn't read his entire book (just a part) he was right in some point even tho he was a bit too extrême.
     
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  11. need4realchg

    need4realchg Fapstronaut

    Yeah.

    I get what you mean. He was extreme. And I mean that in a good way. I am always asking myself is the extreme/minority right and all the rest/majority who go down the “wide path” are wrong?

    @Max Fisher i know you have written before on the perfectionist perspective on being perfect for our kids even when we don’t feel like we are perfect ourselves. I’d appreciate your feedback here. Do I act on truth or feelings?

    For those who don’t know : Josh Harris was a guy who decided to not kiss girls until he met his fiancé, he argued the first kiss should be for his wife. It’s a very strong argument and it appeals to those fundamental-Christian believers. I used to consider myself in that category.

    The problem is I’d still tell my son:. Read this and do it/-. But neither me or the author still believe it. Now what?? What should I say ?
     
  12. jk243

    jk243 Fapstronaut

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    I mean he was getting his inspiration from the Bible. To be sincere, I believe you can kiss your fiancé (it is not fornication), but it must be controlled.

    If what he wrote still true, you know humans tend to make mistakes. I don't really know if I can call it truth but the fact that he was extrême ...
     
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  13. Hros

    Hros Fapstronaut

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    But that's just one issue. I assume the book, and his original opinion touch upon many issues in the world of dating. Who said he went back on this point?
     
  14. Max Fisher

    Max Fisher Fapstronaut

    I'm not sure 100% what you are asking. Do I think you act on truth or feelings? In general? As a matter of course? Jeez...truth is often felt more then it isn't on the personal level. I think they both inform each other, but they can also lie to each other. I think truth is developed or discovered sometimes against what you are feeling at the time, but I also think feelings can guide a person to more truth....now for the contradiction...

    Above all truth can be tested whereas feelings cannot. Presumably truth is a facet of objective reality, feelings are just as real, but are entirely subjective. No one can truly feel exactly as you feel. It's entirely interpretation though the lens of shared feelings and empathy. By all means we should act on truth, just make sure you have the right version. :)
     
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  15. Max Fisher

    Max Fisher Fapstronaut

    Is this the religious "fake it till you make it" conundrum? Being a hypocrite may be much more dangerous then modeling bad behavior. I mean both are not ideal but the real Truth with a capital T is that you can't live up to the values you espouse (in this conundrum, I mean, not you specifically). Practically I see three options.

    1. Lower your values and live them easily - "Live Free"
    2. Change your behavior to perfectly match your values - "Live Perfectly"
    3. Incorporate within your values the truth that people fail and be honest about it, i.e. remove the hypocrisy not the accountability - "Live Honestly"

    In the end your honesty may make you more perfect and free. At least that's the hope...
     
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  16. Augie

    Augie Fapstronaut

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    There is truth and then there are feelings. We should value the truth over feelings since our feelings are not the standard bearer of what is truthful and what isn’t. I would say more often the not the truth invokes difficult feelings rather than pleasant ones. Does that make it bad? No! Most medicines that are good for you taste like shit, it’s just the paradox of life.

    In terms of the Christian spiritual life, there comes a time that is referred to as the dark night. This is when spiritual consolations and feelings are are either unpleasant or go away completely causing a sort of spiritual dryness. The theology and purpose behind this process is to purify and grow the believers love of God from something that is reward based (whether temporal or eternal) to something sacrificial and selfless(meaning a love that seeks no reward); a Christ-like love since He loved us completely even though there was no reward in it for Him. Some monastics have written that this process can push one even to the brink of atheism and back before they transcend the barrier to true conformity with God. It is a type of Passion and death, and is a process Christ remarked about during His own passion when He said: My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"
     
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  17. need4realchg

    need4realchg Fapstronaut

    Wow. This is a deep dive into the human psyche. I like the pendulum momentum , but only when it swings to the “right.”

    Hard to accept or explain when the pendulum swings away from God to the left. Like it is doing in Josh Harris’ case.

    It reminds me of evil king manassas who was extraordinarily evil before he became extraordinarily good.

    And I’d easily agree and accept his feelings had little to do with it. I guess the acestics, and the stoics share the “joy of emotional denial” and including tortured Christian do so as well?

    This brings me full circle. Denying my feelings of “wayward disbelief in my left-hand “ while holding onto truth “with the right hand”.

    Why the hell do we have feelings that we are “supposed” to spend all our time denying??? Just pisses me off.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
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  18. Tao Jones

    Tao Jones Fapstronaut

    Your feelings need to align with the Truth. Then you do not need to deny them. There is only an issue if they are in conflict. You can feel any way you like, but the Truth will not change. So, we must change -- or suffer. That is sort of what this life is all about.
     
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  19. Awedouble

    Awedouble Fapstronaut

    If you learn the truth about your feelings then there is context rather than conflict. There are reasons why those feelings are there, often with certain thoughts and not exclusively feeling. Judgement in itself as a mental process is not a matter of truth or feeling. But I am assuming this is open to the public and not only the Christian identity, in which case this may be dismissed out of hand I suppose.
     
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  20. EXPONENTIALLY

    EXPONENTIALLY Fapstronaut

    Yes !

    Feelings are carnal and temporary, for example doubt is some fleeting paper-tiger preventing you from discovering the wonders of life sometimes. Fear is another big one. I walk by faith, not by feelings, not by sight even as the scriptures say. Now I have some settled peace and charity and longing for romance and love, and joy and enthusiasm. Nurture these feelings instead of the dark ones of which the satanic machine is designed to feed off.

    EDIT: lordship-salvation is a false doctrine.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
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