Doctrine behind PM

Fight the Good Fight

  1. I thought it might be worthwhile to take a look at the doctrinal basis behind porn and masturbation (especially masturbation as this is not often discussed).
    Looking for quotes, scriptures and personal opinions. Please reference and link all quotes and scriptures where possible.

    “True doctrine, understood, changes attitudes and behavior. The study of the [doctrine] of the gospel will improve behavior quicker than a study of behavior will improve behavior.”
    Boyd K. Packer "Little Children", Ensign, Nov. 1986
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  2. Dante's Shadow

    Dante's Shadow Fapstronaut

    There have been numerous conference talks on these subjects, but I'm going to limit this post to the standard works.
    I think the scriptural canon does not mention M or P at all by name.
    I thought this page was useful:

    As far as P, Christ's declaration in Matthew 5:27-28 "whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart" seems to address why we would want to avoid P. However, I also found this website: which seems to be saying that Jesus used identical verbage for lusting after a woman as he used for coveting your neighbor's wife in the ten commandments. Essentially meaning he was reiterating a commandment he had already given. He also notes that neither covet or lust mean to desire, but actually take actions to obtain.
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  3. Something that I think is often mistaught is the seriousness of 'sexual sins'. I recall many lessons as a youth and even now as a young adult where PM are compared as equivalent to adultery and fornication (usually quoting Alma 39 for good measure). The reality is this is false doctrine and creates significant feelings of shame in young people who struggle with PMO and means they often wait a long time before seeking help because of the stigma surrounding PMO.
  4. Dante's Shadow

    Dante's Shadow Fapstronaut

    I agree. I think too many people take Alma's talk with his son (who seems to have publicly fornicated with a whore while on a mission) and throw all sexual sins in the same bucket. P & M are sins, to be sure. But they cannot be reasonably justified to be on the same level as what Corianton did.
  5. VivreLibre

    VivreLibre Fapstronaut

    Did you ever read that talk given by Boyd K. Packer back in the 1970s titled "to young men only" or "message to young men" where he uses the analogy of a factory.

    I was having a difficult time a while back and I wanted to read that talk on the gospel library app. It wasn't there. The only place I could find it was on a third-party-not-affiliated-with-the-church-website. I pulled up my laptop and googled it and was only able to find a recording of it on the website, but no transcription.

    It makes me wonder why the church decided to remove that talk....

    I've always been confused on the point of masturbation. I know Pornography is evil, that is no doubt.
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  6. Dante's Shadow

    Dante's Shadow Fapstronaut

    I think part of the problem is the squeamishness that general authorities have had when talking about sexual sins. With a lack of clear direction from the top, it leaves individuals a lot of room for interpretation. Which can be good or bad. If your bishop feels like it is not a big deal, great. That might be OK, or it might make you feel complacent and reduce your willingness to change for the better. Alternatively, if your bishop feels it is more serious and is considering disfellowship or excommunication, that could also be a problem.

    I think that the fact that the "little factory" pamphlet material is hard to find is demonstrative that the top doesn't want to take a hard stand against it. I don't think it means that M is OK, but more that they don't want to encourage witch hunts, or force people that are struggling with M away from the church.

    The For the Strength of Youth pamphlet is pretty clear that we shouldn't be Ming without actually using the term.
  7. Interesting to see some updates to the churches site about pornography.

    Haven't had a chance to look through everything yet but from what I've seen I like the approach (though still a little frustrated with the lack of talk about masturbation)
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