Does Sex Save You?

[Deleted Account]

For those of you in a relationship does having sex with your SO stop from relapsing? Is there anyone who's had sex with their SO and then looked at porn soon after? For SO how would you feel if your partner was having sex with you only because they were tempted to look at porn?

 

[Queen_Of_Hearts_13]

So if you have an urge and have sex with your SO, you are using your SO...

And yes, having sex and Oing can leave you vulnerable to the chaser effect.

That is why when having sex, most abstain from O, and they don't Use their partner to replace PMO.

Degraded and I'd never have sex with him again

 

[Deleted Account]

So if you have an urge and have sex with your SO, you are using your SO...

And yes, having sex and Oing can leave you vulnerable to the chaser effect.

That is why when having sex, most abstain from O, and they don't Use their partner to replace PMO.

Degraded and I'd never have sex with him again

I agree with this but I also think healthy sex done with true intimacy is a great thing needed to replace the unhealthy self centered use of porn at least for people who have the option to do so.

I dont say this to make single people feel bad because it's not the ONLY thing. I find healthy sex to greatly improve my chances at avoiding relapse. Also intimacy without sex is hugely beneficial too.

 

[Deleted Account]

For me, sex was part of the problem. There was so much dysfunction in our physical intimacy. Doing 90 days hard mode not only helped break the back of my addiction, but also gave us a firm foundation to rebuild a much healthier sexual relationship.

Ultimately, long term, good sex is a great defense against temptation, since you’ve been down that road and know where it ends. You also know that it really is mutually exclusive. But in the short term, I think it can be very muddled.

 

[JKnight]

I agree with this but I also think healthy sex done with true intimacy is a great thing needed to replace the unhealthy self centered use of porn at least for people who have the option to do so.

I dont say this to make single people feel bad because it's not the ONLY thing. I find healthy sex to greatly improve my chances at avoiding relapse. Also intimacy without sex is hugely beneficial too.

I agree. However, healthy sex for an addict is very difficult to come by especially when whilst going through withdrawals. The drive for sex will get kicked into overdrive during this period and it is very likely that the addiction will be transferred to the SO and they will be used for that rather than waiting until a certain point of recovery, developing a sense of intimacy and relationship during that interim period and then afterwards being intimate - healthy sex.

 

[JKnight]

The poll is difficult to answer for many reasons:

1. the act of sex at that point is due to acting out. In fact, the availability of sex is just circumstantial, it is still acting out
2. technically, sex, except with people outside of a relationship (and some may consider prostitutes even when single), is considered not a relapse but only due to a technicality. The action occurred as a direct consequence of the urge to act out. The partner involved was merely the instrument of that craving
3. It is still difficult to say that an actual PMO type relapse would have occurred, because of the ease in which it is rationalise sex as not part of the addiction, whereas one may have some force of maintaining their conviction to remain clean from PMO

 

[Deleted Account]

I agree. However, healthy sex for an addict is very difficult to come by especially when whilst going through withdrawals. The drive for sex will get kicked into overdrive during this period and it is very likely that the addiction will be transferred to the SO and they will be used for that rather than waiting until a certain point of recovery, developing a sense of intimacy and relationship during that interim period and then afterwards being intimate - healthy sex.

That's true. Tread carefully and wisely. Question your motives and it might be better to error on the side of abstinence where there is doubt.

 

[Queen_Of_Hearts_13]

You all mention healthy sex, which does not include using your partner as an object to replace the addiction. There was an addict on here a while ago or an SO that was talking about how the addict was addicted to the SO.... and that was having a hugely negative impact.

Waiting for sex in the very beginning is probably best, or.... simply having sex when there is not an urge to use.

Sex is supposed to enhance intimacy, it's not to use another person to gratify oneself so they don't relapse.

Healthy sex, hell yeah have healthy sex

unhealthy/replacement sex.... I think it's not a good idea

 

[JKnight]

Waiting for sex in the very beginning is probably best, or.... simply having sex when there is not an urge to use.

I would definitely say that waiting for sex is the best bet. But it must be coupled with real acts of affection and relationship building activity, otherwise it's just waiting for sex and the abstinence will have been wasted.

 

[Deleted Account]

Sex with my SO is my sole motivator for stopping with my porn habits.

I'd never been in the scenario where I could clearly choose either. The problem with porn is that at some point I would certainly have preferred the porn because it is easier than real sex. My wife admits, too, that sometimes she prefers to masturbate rather than initiating sex with me or someone else.

I think that Sex with the SO when tempted to use porn should work and I don't really see it as using the SO. The SO is still free to not consent.

You are just horny, want to use porn but successfully initiate sex with your SO. What would be wrong with that? It would be fantastic if it worked.

 

[samnf1990]

It depends what the urge is for. Is it for sexual stimulation, orgasm, release? Then of course, sex is going to satisfy that urge and be much more preferable than trying to meet those needs/satisfy those urges by PMOing. If the urge is specifically for porn, or comes about from fantasising about something seen in porn, a particular performer or fetish etc, then that is different. Having sex, motivated by the second kind of urge does not sound like recovery or a healthy sexual experience.

The problem is that a heavy or regular P user might not be able to distinguish between the two types of urges. They may feel a general horniness and (through self-imposed behavioural conditioning from too much pmo) associate those feelings with opening up a private browser window and descending into pmo habits. Or they may be having so many pornographic thoughts and flashbacks that it is a long time since they had sex without such pornographic images contributing to their horniness before or during the sex. This is, of course, problematic.

If a P user or recovering PA is still prone to binge, then sex with their partner may lead to a PMO binge, especially if the partner is satisfied fully from round one and disinterested in continuing to be sexual. The PA may know that his partner will then be unreceptive and use that as a twisted motivation or rationalisation of then choosing to PMO, if he is still experiencing urges.

I know from reading some posts on this site that some SOs have caught their partner PMOing soon after sex, and this is (in my view), not because the sex was somehow inadequate, bad or whatever, but rather because the PA is still struggling with the urge to binge. This may be more likely to happen if all sexual activity is very sparse (either through a hardmode reboot or because the PA is quitting PMO and the SO is too upset and hurt to feel sexual or want to be intimayte and vulnerable very often) because the brain wants that dopamine. Also, if it is the first sex in a long time, and the orgasm was so recent and pleasurable etc, then the PA is faced with the possibility of another long wait, with the vivid and pleasurable memory right there in the recent past. This may be a cause of the weakness in such a moment that may seem, for the SO, to make no sense at all.

Like with any question on this forum, the answer is not simple, and yet simple answers are often the ones most desirable to us. Those giving up P want it to be easy to do, those wanting to forgive and forget want that to come easily, and the goal we are aiming for as fapstronaughts seems so easy on the surface: Just don't do it. We want it to be easy to put it into practice and we want easy approaches: Don't look at the porn, don't touch yourself, and don't put yourself in triggering situations. Sounds easy. It is not always. And it is tragic that for some, rebuilding the intimacy in their relationship and having positive, healthy sexual experiences with their partner can serve as a trigger. I hope some of the above helps to explain or understand what might be going on in a way that minimises some pain and allows for progress in rebuilding some relationships.

 

[samnf1990]

So if you have an urge and have sex with your SO, you are using your SO...

And yes, having sex and Oing can leave you vulnerable to the chaser effect.

That is why when having sex, most abstain from O, and they don't Use their partner to replace PMO.

Degraded and I'd never have sex with him again

Hi Anna

I've agreed with and defended your posts on this site many times. However, I'm not sure I agree with the comment 'most choose not to O' when having sex with a partner. It might be a sensible solution in certain circumstances, but people are on this site for different reasons and with problems of differing severity. If a P user/PA has progressed to the point where sex is not an equal, loving exchange where the needs of both partners are being tended to, and the P user/PA is selfish, inattentive or even coercive, abusive etc, then clearly changes need to be put in place. Perhaps then, learning to enjoy sex and meeting their partner's needs without orgasming themself is a positive and helpful experience. If, however, sex in the relationship meets both partners' needs, is not one-sided and has not been used as an outlet for simply living out porn scenes etc, then there seems to be no sensible reason to avoid O in sex. If watching porn and solo M is the aspect of the relationship that needs changing, then that is the aspect that should be addressed. Orgasms are a natural and important part of sex, and something that all (perhaps most is more accurate, asexuals exist) humans crave, regardless of whether an addiction has developed. Taking away the ability to seek sexual release and orgasm with their partner's approval, not only when alone, but now also with their partner, might feel like an unfair, unliveable situation for many. This could very easily become a motivation to relapse and seek their biological and psychological needs alone and secretively, adding to the relationship's problems rather than aiding recovery.

It is easier to quit smoking if you are not also deciding to live a completely ascetic lifestyle and avoid all other pleasures and indulgences. Some goals seem inhibitive to success in achieving them. And I think that for most people quitting porn, being unable to orgasm with their partner is going to make relapse a much more likely prospect.

On the other hand, if it is helping you and Jak, perhaps it could help more couples in your situation. I assume that having sex this way is used as a temporary step to aid reconnection and the growth of intimacy before reintroducing orgasm, once some healing has occurred?

 

[Queen_Of_Hearts_13]

@samnf1990 I didn't say Must Choose Not To O, but rahter there are some addicts on here who choose not to O and it's helped them.

Jak O's most times we have sex, then there are times where he simply doesn't want to. There was a time when he refrained from O, but that was like way back when.

I think as time goes on, more recovery and sobriety time is under your belt O can be healthy. I think addicts in the beginning depending on their circumstances (like PIED and stuff) might be good for them to refrain from sex and O until things are starting to work down there and/or when the addict can distinguish wanting to be close to their partner versus using their partner as a means to an end because then they are just continuing addict behaviors with a different "object" for lack of better words.

But it's true if there is a huge imbalance, yeah refrain. If O isn't a problem, then don't.

But again, the addict has to be aware of why they are choosing to O and have sex. Is it from a healthy place or unhealthy place, you know?

 

[samnf1990]

I

@samnf1990 I didn't say Must Choose Not To O, but rahter there are some addicts on here who choose not to O and it's helped them.

Jak O's most times we have sex, then there are times where he simply doesn't want to. There was a time when he refrained from O, but that was like way back when.

I think as time goes on, more recovery and sobriety time is under your belt O can be healthy. I think addicts in the beginning depending on their circumstances (like PIED and stuff) might be good for them to refrain from sex and O until things are starting to work down there and/or when the addict can distinguish wanting to be close to their partner versus using their partner as a means to an end because then they are just continuing addict behaviors with a different "object" for lack of better words.

But it's true if there is a huge imbalance, yeah refrain. If O isn't a problem, then don't.

But again, the addict has to be aware of why they are choosing to O and have sex. Is it from a healthy place or unhealthy place, you know?

It was the word 'most' that I felt was misleading.

 

[Deleted Account]

What is the difference between urge and libido? If I have the desire to have sex with my partner, is it an urge? I see that as a libido, and perfectly ok... I'm not sure if having sex with my partner helps me not relapsing after, because it has already happened that I relapsed, PMOing, somedays after having sex.

My wife does not always want to have sex in the same frequency that I do, and I respect that; I always thought that our "libido levels" are not the same. In general, I'm more in a mood for having sex than her. And that's very difficult for me to cope with, because I tend to use this as a rationalization for relapsing.

That doesn't mean, otherwise, that sex with her is only a "replacement". I really don't feel like that: I love when we have sex, and so does her (it seems to me, at least, lol). When we're having sex, I don't think of P, and it's way better than PMOing. However, when I relapse too frequently, I have more difficulty to O during real sex. It's complicated, but I never thought of our intimacy moments as a "replacement" for my urges. Instead, I always thought of it as the best and right way to release sexual tension and, other times too, as well, a moment to straighten our intimacy, our relationship. That has to be good for both of us.

So, reading the posts, I came to this doubt: what is the difference between libido and urges? What is libido? Is it satisfied after Oing? If I satisfy it with P it's an urge, and if I satisfy it with real sex is it ok, just a libido?

I think it's ok to feel sexual tension and want to release it, it's normal, biological; I don't think it's healthy for your brain to satisfy it with P, because of all the things we've already learned about in NoFap (how easy it is to get P nowadays and dopamine levels, etc). However I think it's ok to feel horn with your partner presence when you're feeling that sexual tension, and it's really good to satisfy it with your partner! It doesn't mean that I think of her as a replacement for P or that I love her less. There are different kinds of sexual desires, and I think it's healthy and so damn good to satisfy all of them with your partner; and I think that's how it should be, for both! If I start to rationalize and overthink if there is a "right way" to feel sexual desire towards my partner, I'll start to ruin it all, sex wouldn't be a relaxing, intimacy moment, but a rational thing. Feels like I'd turn into a machine if I start to rationalize too much about the sexual desire I have for my partner, wondering when it's "right" or "wrong".

Does anybody gets what I mean?

 

[Deleted Account]

So if you have an urge and have sex with your SO, you are using your SO...

No offense and I'm not trying to start an argument, just offering a different perspective. I 100% disagree with this. I want to help my husband and fulfill his sexual needs, and he wants to do the same for me, and if that means having sex when I dont really feel like it because hes feeling really tempted and wants to choose me over porn, I think that's a great and healthy thing. Hes not "using" me. I'm not a sex toy, I'm his wife and he loves me and recognizes that he wants to pursue intimacy with me over porn, but hes feeling horny and tempted, so he needs some help with that. And most of the time, I'm happy to help and get pleasure in return.

But to answer your question, OP, no, sex does not always help with urges. There have been times when I've had sex and then PMOed later that day or the next day. There have also been times when I've had sex and felt completel satisfied and didnt have the desire to PMO anymore. It just depends.

 

[JKnight]

What is the difference between urge and libido? If I have the desire to have sex with my partner, is it an urge? I see that as a libido, and perfectly ok... I'm not sure if having sex with my partner helps me not relapsing after, because it has already happened that I relapsed, PMOing, somedays after having sex.

My wife does not always want to have sex in the same frequency that I do, and I respect that; I always thought that our "libido levels" are not the same. In general, I'm more in a mood for having sex than her. And that's very difficult for me to cope with, because I tend to use this as a rationalization for relapsing.

That doesn't mean, otherwise, that sex with her is only a "replacement". I really don't feel like that: I love when we have sex, and so does her (it seems to me, at least, lol). When we're having sex, I don't think of P, and it's way better than PMOing. However, when I relapse too frequently, I have more difficulty to O during real sex. It's complicated, but I never thought of our intimacy moments as a "replacement" for my urges. Instead, I always thought of it as the best and right way to release sexual tension and, other times too, as well, a moment to straighten our intimacy, our relationship. That has to be good for both of us.

So, reading the posts, I came to this doubt: what is the difference between libido and urges? What is libido? Is it satisfied after Oing? If I satisfy it with P it's an urge, and if I satisfy it with real sex is it ok, just a libido?

I think it's ok to feel sexual tension and want to release it, it's normal, biological; I don't think it's healthy for your brain to satisfy it with P, because of all the things we've already learned about in NoFap (how easy it is to get P nowadays and dopamine levels, etc). However I think it's ok to feel horn with your partner presence when you're feeling that sexual tension, and it's really good to satisfy it with your partner! It doesn't mean that I think of her as a replacement for P or that I love her less. There are different kinds of sexual desires, and I think it's healthy and so damn good to satisfy all of them with your partner; and I think that's how it should be, for both! If I start to rationalize and overthink if there is a "right way" to feel sexual desire towards my partner, I'll start to ruin it all, sex wouldn't be a relaxing, intimacy moment, but a rational thing. Feels like I'd turn into a machine if I start to rationalize too much about the sexual desire I have for my partner, wondering when it's "right" or "wrong".

Does anybody gets what I mean?

This is a good question and I'll try answer it as best as I can. There are really 2 questions here: (1) the definitions of the 2, (2) how do I know if it is bad or good i.e. a result of the addiction craving or something healthy and good for the relationship.

For the first question: libido is generally something constant. It is a measurement of the overall sex drive a person has for a given period of time. Libido levels can rise or fall depending on the person and circumstance, you can have a high libido but not all always be horny all the time. It is more long term. An urge on the other hand refers to the want for immediate sexual gratification that occurs at that moment. It is an impulse that occurs in the moment that drives the want. It could be a result of the libido or as a result of the addiction. But it refers to the immediate desire not a measurement over time.

Whether each of these are as a result of being a healthy human being or as a result of the addiction is far more difficult and the actual sexual pleasure received by the other is no way an indication. You need some self-knowledge and self-awareness about why you want it, but there are other indicators.

1. how you treat the other person outside of this urge? if the affection and other actions that prepares for the sex is an overflow for the normal affection given, and that after the sex, there is still an amount of love and affection, then it is healthy. If the affection is reserved only for this act, then it is addiction
2. Your attitude during. Do you have a desire to benefit and show love to your partner or are you you-focused? You can make the other person feel good but still be selfish.
3. How replaceable is your partner? You obviously want sex and it makes sense to do that with your partner, but if they weren't willing, would you abstain or would you find other means? healthy sex drive should be about wanting to be with your partner rather than the need to have sex.

There are probably others. SOs claim that they can tell the difference between an intimacy based session and a lust-fueled session.

 

[Deleted Account]

What is the difference between urge and libido? If I have the desire to have sex with my partner, is it an urge? I see that as a libido, and perfectly ok... I'm not sure if having sex with my partner helps me not relapsing after, because it has already happened that I relapsed, PMOing, somedays after having sex.

My wife does not always want to have sex in the same frequency that I do, and I respect that; I always thought that our "libido levels" are not the same. In general, I'm more in a mood for having sex than her. And that's very difficult for me to cope with, because I tend to use this as a rationalization for relapsing.

That doesn't mean, otherwise, that sex with her is only a "replacement". I really don't feel like that: I love when we have sex, and so does her (it seems to me, at least, lol). When we're having sex, I don't think of P, and it's way better than PMOing. However, when I relapse too frequently, I have more difficulty to O during real sex. It's complicated, but I never thought of our intimacy moments as a "replacement" for my urges. Instead, I always thought of it as the best and right way to release sexual tension and, other times too, as well, a moment to straighten our intimacy, our relationship. That has to be good for both of us.

So, reading the posts, I came to this doubt: what is the difference between libido and urges? What is libido? Is it satisfied after Oing? If I satisfy it with P it's an urge, and if I satisfy it with real sex is it ok, just a libido?

I think it's ok to feel sexual tension and want to release it, it's normal, biological; I don't think it's healthy for your brain to satisfy it with P, because of all the things we've already learned about in NoFap (how easy it is to get P nowadays and dopamine levels, etc). However I think it's ok to feel horn with your partner presence when you're feeling that sexual tension, and it's really good to satisfy it with your partner! It doesn't mean that I think of her as a replacement for P or that I love her less. There are different kinds of sexual desires, and I think it's healthy and so damn good to satisfy all of them with your partner; and I think that's how it should be, for both! If I start to rationalize and overthink if there is a "right way" to feel sexual desire towards my partner, I'll start to ruin it all, sex wouldn't be a relaxing, intimacy moment, but a rational thing. Feels like I'd turn into a machine if I start to rationalize too much about the sexual desire I have for my partner, wondering when it's "right" or "wrong".

Does anybody gets what I mean?

I definitely get what you mean, and I completely agree.

 

[JKnight]

No offense and I'm not trying to start an argument, just offering a different perspective. I 100% disagree with this. I want to help my husband and fulfill his sexual needs, and he wants to do the same for me, and if that means having sex when I dont really feel like it because hes feeling really tempted and wants to choose me over porn, I think that's a great and healthy thing. Hes not "using" me. I'm not a sex toy, I'm his wife and he loves me and recognizes that he wants to pursue intimacy with me over porn, but hes feeling horny and tempted, so he needs some help with that. And most of the time, I'm happy to help and get pleasure in return.

But to answer your question, OP, no, sex does not always help with urges. There have been times when I've had sex and then PMOed later that day or the next day. There have also been times when I've had sex and felt completel satisfied and didnt have the desire to PMO anymore. It just depends.

I hear the argument being made, and from my chats with SOs, many would disagree, but each to their own, this is mostly a individualistic affair. Here's the point why I disagree with you. It's about attitude. An addict is fueled by lust and is consuming depending on the level of addiction that they have. Most things are objectified. The addict finds what ever legitimate or even illegitimate method of satisfying those urges. The reboot process is about calming the mind from this, starve the brain from its fix in order to retrain ourselves and open our eyes to reality to an extent. Personally, I have taken this time to go through a hard reboot in order to relearn who my wife is outside of my own lust and addiction; to have a real relationship that will have intimacy. I have found it this the crucial time to do so. If I did not, my reboot would be more gradual and who is to say that I would ever truly heal; i would no longer be a porn addict, but i would still be objectifying my wife. It's akin to giving a heroine addict a different opiate injection whenever he/she has a craving for heroine.

 

[Deleted Account]

SOs claim that they can tell the difference between an intimacy based session and a lust-fueled session.

The thing is, though, not everybody agrees that in order to have sex, you have to be craving some special intimate moment. I have absolutely asked my husband for sex in moments when I am just straight up horny AF, to relieve my horniness. Some of those moments have absolutely nothing to do with him or wanting to be intimate with him, but I personally dont believe that's wrong. We all get horny, and it's not always the best or most comfortable choice to suppress that, especially when you have a willing sexual partner sitting two feet away from you.

Also, whether you go into a sexual encounter craving intimacy or not, sex will bond you and give you intimacy. That's a product of sex, whether you're seeking it or not.

I just dont see anything wrong, at all, with having consensual sex with your spouse for any reason. And I think it's completely unrealistic to think that you're only going to have sex when youre craving intimacy with your partner. If that were the case, I would probably have sex like once every couple months. And then all the times in between, when I'm feeling super horny because my body just gets horny sometimes like most humans, I would be what? Just suppressing it? I just dont see the point.