Don’t lie to me!

Discussion in 'Partner Support' started by Torn, Apr 22, 2018.

  1. Torn

    Torn Fapstronaut

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    “I didn’t!”

    “I don’t think so.”

    “I don’t remember.”

    Those are 3 different responses, right? What is it — if one doesn’t get the desired reaction, try another? WTF. Come on. You’re just digging a deeper hole.

    I’m sleeping in the basement tonight. A lie is a lie. How can I expect him to be honest if he doesn’t get when he’s lying? The lying is the WORST part of this whole damn thing. Just be honest. It’s so much easier.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2018
  2. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Fapstronaut

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  3. You're right. It is so frustrating and agonizing to hear lies over and over, especially the "I don't know" and "I don't remember" because you know so much of the time it's about things they would not have already forgotten. Those are just convenient and seemingly habitual automatic answers to everything. I'm sorry you're having to deal with this.

    To us, it would be so much easier if they'd just tell the truth(and so much less painful), but I think, for themselves, they truly believe that it is much easier to just lie. Their whole way of thinking is so messed up. It sucks.

    Hang in there. Hugs.
     
  4. I just had a discussion with my wife yesterday about how I have never felt safe being totally honest with anyone.
    Not my parents, friends, or her.
    I had just realized it that day at work and made some notes.
    The reason I bring up is that I realized that I was always afraid I would be rejected if I told the truth about my mistakes.
    I know it doesn’t make it right, but it’s all based in cowardice.
    We have to be brave to risk rejection and to accept the consequences of our actions.
    I’m trying to teach MY children that I will always love them no matter what and they can be honest with me.
    Hopefully it will turn out different for them.
     
  5. It does require a change in thinking.
    I catch myself not being TOTALLY honest and don’t even know why. It’s a habit. But then I’m afraid to admit it because I know how mad she’ll get about the lie more than the thing I lied about.
    Gotta change the way of thinking.
     
  6. TryingToHeal

    TryingToHeal Fapstronaut

    Been there, done that. You are right. I'm sorry. :(
     
  7. Torn

    Torn Fapstronaut

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    Thanks, everyone. I get it’s hard for him to be vulnerable, but that’s what I’ve been doing all along. This makes me wonder why I’m risking it.

    I got an apology this morning for, “Saying it 3 different ways.” No acknowledgment of lying, still denies it. Really?

    I’m glad I have somewhere to be and am getting out of the house today for some “me” time.
     
  8. SaltedPeter

    SaltedPeter Fapstronaut

    Not trying to be a counselor here even though I was one!

    Lies: Are designed to redirect responsibility and accountability.
    One doesn't simply say I am sorry because I had no responsibility and accountability?
    Every apology is designed mostly to make the liar feel better and hide, responsibility and accountability.
    Most addicts only apologies so it takes pressure off them so they can think about using and not have that added guilt.

    Apology: When an apology is fueled by fear its usually the biggest lie they tell, they only apologies cause they
    think you might kick their ass out or dump them.

    Addicts: are master manipulators, heck they even begin to believe their own lies.
    The tool box of the addict is quite large and all sorts of diversions, redirection and lies covered up with layers
    of more lies.

    In an article I read years ago about infidelity,it was said the man or women would continue to lie as long as the other didnt find out. If they did they would work on a apology and a better plan not to get caught in the future.
    It appears that why making amends is huge, equally to the sex addict is covering tracks better so this time they are not caught.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2018
  9. Torn

    Torn Fapstronaut

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    So lies and apologies serve the same purpose. Interesting.

    What I'd prefer is that he admit his lie(s), tell the truth, and stop lying. STOP!
     
  10. SaltedPeter

    SaltedPeter Fapstronaut

    To an addict they do, if I replace P with alcohol or heroine that may make more sense. But an addiction is
    and addiction the desire to use what ever it is has to be maintained ( in a active addicts life)
    Lets ask this, Joe drinks allot, he gets drunk is late for work misses kids events, crashes cars and obviously wife knows.
    So being a alcoholic, what choice will he choose? Quit, or make sure he is not drinking at those events, a addict will try and manage the later events not quit.
    Again to a addict apologizing to say it harshly shuts up the person interfering with their addiction,
    so in fact the apology is often a lie its self with in its self and this is why addicts get caught at lying as they
    think they can walk that tight rope and no one will be the wiser.. There is a reason places like Nofap, NA and AA etc exist
    because accountability seems to be the key to stopping the addictive behavior.
    Sorry not trying to preach, but I know in my head what I have done and I know what addicts think and do, addicts think their addiction is complicated and hard to understand , no its not. It just that way to non addicts who have to deal with BS and lies. Ever listen and hear the BS addicts push out there, bottom line is their addictive behavior *( and mine) are destructive on our own and loved ones lives. And lies and misdirection and no accountability will help no one.
     
  11. Torn

    Torn Fapstronaut

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    Thanks for your response, @GhostWriter. I understand not having a perfect memory. I sure don’t. However, in the case of not remembering, “I didn’t!” -- is NOT being honest. It sounds to me like deflecting accountability and responsibility. Also, there’s much more to communication than verbal cues, plus there's the entirety of the conversation.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2018
  12. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    I agree with you that it requires a total change, and conscious choice not to lie. The lying often extends far beyond PMO and addiction. And I had to make a determination with my ex if lying was as a result solely of the PMO or if it seeped into every part of his life and was a much deeper easier. Unfortunately in my case my ex was the latter. He was insecure, afraid and anxious. He feared rejection and just lied anytime he was concerned the truth would upset someone. Can a man in his 40s change this behavior that he’s had his entire life, possibly but unlikely.
     
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  13. Maybe true, but I’m going to try anyway. :emoji_mountain_bicyclist:
     
  14. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    Lol I have always been brutally honest to the point some people find it offensive. But don’t ask me if you don’t want to hear it.
     
  15. I just found myself doing the trickle truth thing I hate! I give pieces of the information so I feel like I’ve been honest..and I have been but I give a lighter version because I’m afraid of someone’s reaction. I think it started as a teen with my parents. I don’t want it done to me so I really need to stay aware before doing so.
     
  16. One reason for the lies I haven't seen mentioned here is simply this: Shame.

    For a while, I felt like I was fighting both my addiction and my wife. After lying to her ONE MORE TIME about the reasons for a G-rated Google Search I did (I was actually searching for Psubs), I opened up to her and admitted I had been edging. We had a huge fight. It was at that moment that I realized that the porn wasn't the root of her being angry. It was the lying. I've since been completely honest with her and I feel like she's been on my team ever since. I think she feels better now knowing that she can be that safe place for me when I struggle.

    To kind of expand on this incident from this addict's perspective... (I don't remember the exact details of the search, so I'll make something up which may have been typical for me at the time.)

    I have an accountability filter on my computer. It blocks and reports sites I go to such as random-porn-site.com. So instead, I go to Google and do a real basic search for something like "99 Problems" because I know that that will bring me to images of Ariana Grande and that will just "do it for me right now." If I then find images, I might continue to look at them until I've had my fill - in whatever capacity that is.

    Later I'm asked about this search and find myself in this incredibly shameful position. Do I really want to admit that I was looking at G-rated pictures of a singer and getting off to that? That I used a sneaky search phrase to try to hide my tracks to get to Ariana? No friggin' way. That's just sick and f'ed up! Really? What the hell will she think is wrong with me if I admit that I don't need porn, but that I can use anything to feed this addiction.

    I can tell you that while I am in a healthier position today than 30 days ago, the road has been difficult. I've needed to first remove hardcore access as much as possible. Then remove access to softcore stuff on the TV like Cinemax and Showtime. Then start buckling down on Google Image searches. And finally, I begin not unplugging the TV power cord, but actually removing it and putting it on the kitchen table. I could have still plugged it in, but by this time, I was strong enough that the pause this action created was long enough for me to fight off the urge and turn to something more productive.

    So now this novel is nearing its end, I might suggest that in a moment of clarity for you both, you ask him about the shameful aspects of his addiction. Whatever works for your situation, but maybe something like "Hey, I know you don't really want to look at the stuff you do. I know it's the addiction that leads you there. I know it's embarrassing, but I'm here for you as a partner in your fight. You and I together can attack this better than you alone. I can handle whatever you look, but I promise you, I can't handle the lies. So let's try to get through some of this embarrassment so we can get better faster."

    Don't forget that you have a vested interest in him getting better in terms of a healthy sexual relationship. That being said, DO NOT deny yourself the care YOU need as well. He should be a partner with YOU in helping you recover. Your feelings are valid and real and will need to be addressed to.
     
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  17. Been here. Innocuous searches. I didn’t have the filter like you, but I would have lines I wouldn’t cross, like turning off a safesearch. I have openDNS to filter but it only shuts down sites not content.
    So I had to tackle M first. I would still look for stuff just to see if I could find something edgy. I didn’t M to it, so idk why I even searched.
    But it was embarrassing all the same. And on top of that my wife told me NOT to tell her anything because she didn’t want to know.
     
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  18. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    I think all SOs or most of us understand why you don’t want to tell and certainly overall I have found that porn addicts experience shame around all things sexual which is often why they end up pmo addicts they are ashamed of expressing their sexual wants and needs to fear of being rejected or judged so they use porn to fulfill those needs. But what they don’t see is that many partners would gladly fulfill them they just don’t get that option.

    I read what you are saying though as less shame and more fear of letting down or hurting your partner. It’s not so much what you are looking at but the fact that you have told your SO time and time again you would not do it. And this could apply to anything. The larger problem is placing your own feelings of not wanting to see her reaction or see her pain about her right to know the truth. And so while yes of course we understand why you don’t tell. But what upsets us is continuing to place your own feelings above ours. Meaning you wouid rather hurt us by lying or hiding things then feel bad yourself. Learning to be honest with your partner even when it is going to be super uncomfortable for you is crucial imo as is learning the sit with that pain, to feel it rather than trying to avoid it. And that type of honesty when we know it’s hard for you, when we know it’s painful that’s the type of honesty that rebuilds trust. And the few times my ex displayed that it gave me some hope that he could recover.

    Because it’s not just porn for most people who do not reveal things like this it carrier over to all other aspects of relationships. The shame is fear of being judged, low self esteem, poor communication skills and so on. So am addict who withholds due time shame had the SO questioning will he be honest about other things that make him uncomfortable? And it breaks trust down even more.

    So I think th bottom line is it’s not that SOs don’t understand why you do it we just don’t care. And I don’t mean to be blunt about this. But what I mean is it’s not a reason that’s going to justify your lying or withholding to us. We need to see that you are willing to put us first all of the time. So while knowing and understanding the reasons why helps in your recovery overall which of course the so is vested in it does . But it does nothing to rebuild trust and I think pmo addicts become so caught up in their own pain they forget about the SOs.
     
  19. This wasn't me at all. I do not experience shame around all things sexual, nor did anything sexual lead to my addiction. Mine was essentially instability and to some extent parental abandoning. I couldn't secure myself to anything (school, friends, even my bedroom) when I was young and so I turned into the only thing I knew would be the same the next year: myself. Simple as that.

    This I know and look forward to being able to experiment with my wife in a healthy manner when we are both ready.

    I think these are separate, but inextricably linked. I know for a fact that before I even brought the idea of talking about a search (like my example above) with my wife, I had great shame in what I had done for myself. I had trouble grasping the concept of my brain leading me down that this odd path and what the hell was actually going on. So the shame factor of both analyzing the behavior and sharing it is/was significant. Bringing it to my wife was often a combination of simple, heavy embarrassment with, indeed, the ugliness associated with disappointing her. Ultimately, the lying/hiding is the real thing the AP needs to overcome.

    Yes and no, IMO. I've read posts from many SO's who want answers as to "Why am I not enough?" or "Why does he look at that shit?" I think that it depends on where you are as an SO in your part of the recovery process. I also think that the recovery process is stronger when both parties share and understand what they have learned. That includes the reasons why the PA lies AND why the PA has the problem in the first place. (Certainly, if you don't get to the root cause of the problem, how can you be sure that it doesn't still exist and is still not causing the problem to proliferate?) And it expands to the SO's side as well. It's important to understand why and how the SO is being hurt, how it makes them feel emotionally, what can be done to assist them, etc. The more the PA knows in this regard, the better equipped they are to help heal in those areas as well.

    Again, I would generally agree. But I do believe that when I understand something new about my addiction and share that information with my wife (especially if it's embarrassing or difficult), our trust is rebuilt. But certainly, going to her and telling her about a relapse is much more significant and marks a bigger improvement in our relationship.
     
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  20. While 'trickle truth' has a negative connotation, I can say that it helped me work things out with my SO. I gave her smaller pieces at first in trying to be vulnerable, and as she was less reactive and more supportive, I found her a safe place and was able to give more.

    It may not have been the ideal approach, but it was what I was able to do at the time and it worked well for both of us to break down our walls.
     
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