Don't Repress Your Urges.

Discussion in 'Rebooting - Porn Addiction Recovery' started by Sleeperhead, Feb 11, 2019.

  1. Sleeperhead

    Sleeperhead Fapstronaut

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    The more you wanna quit porn the more stressed and on edge you put yourself. When you get the urge to watch porn you tense up and say "No!!! I'm not going to relapse". With this technique all it takes is one moment of weakness to screw up, a bad night's sleep perhaps and your guard is down, or it's the weekend and you're at home all day.

    You aren't going to reach a point when you no longer have the urge to watch porn, sure the longer you go without the stimulation of porn your desire will diminish, but it will always be there, so are you going to spend the rest of your life on edge?

    You can say to yourself that you will watch porn whenever you want to, but if you do you must only view softcore images. When you get the urge to watch porn you merely observe your thoughts. 9/10 times you relapse because of the stress of not wanting to watch porn rather than actually wanting it. This offers a stress free alternative to the conventional method of quitting porn. You can watch porn whenever you want there is no stress, however when you are watching porn you are looking at boring generic images of girls, nowhere near the level of stimulation you get from hardcore porn vids, so you can allow your brain to normalise.
     
  2. tj21

    tj21 Fapstronaut

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    2 questions:
    1- what is relapse?
    2- so by watching porns during the moments that we dont have the urge, we could slowly lessen the addiction?
     
  3. Aware

    Aware Fapstronaut

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    you are correct that just fighting the urges with nothing other than brute force, creates more stress (there are many methods that help better manage the urges and reduce stress at the same time)

    What you say about watching softcore pore as something to help solve this and being useful, confuses me. It goes against anything I have ever read from medical professionals in the field of addiction science.

    What are you basing this on?

    Porn is porn and comes in many forms (soft , hard, video, audio, instagam, movies, magazines, etc etc)

    The addiction is to porn in any form, which leads masturbation which leads to orgasm which leads to surge of dopamine in the brain. The dopamine is what your subconscious mind desires. porn is just a click click simple easy way your mind has tricked you into wanting to give your mind what it wants.

    Whether you get to the dopamine rush via soft , hard , or any other form of porn changes nothing about the addiction.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
  4. Infinite spirit

    Infinite spirit Fapstronaut

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    Again another wrong approach. .it doesn't work like that. As long as it's an option in your mind. .you will end up relapsing. .softcore images yeah!!..then boom. .you are in pornhub. .and you don't know it until thers cum all over the place and "wtf did I just relapse ...". .NO THANKS.
     
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  5. bobross

    bobross Fapstronaut

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    Well said, while OP made an interesting initial point, the rest sounds straight out-of-the-book addict talk to justify using.
    Rewiring your brain takes effort and time, and is not a pleasant and easy process, and there are no shortcuts. But the fear of relapse induced stress is caused by a bad attitude towards all this, and besides, soft porn leads to the rest. I doubt the majority of people here started with extreme stuff, so saying that 'boring porn' is okayish is like saying that shooting yourself in the head with a bullet is healthy compared to a bigget round.
     
  6. Woodland-Soul

    Woodland-Soul Fapstronaut

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    I'm sorry but I personally think this is the worst advice I've read on here. Even softcore porn can create a pathway to release. Its still arousing.
     
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  7. UnyieldingAntiHero

    UnyieldingAntiHero Fapstronaut

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    I understand what you are trying to get at and I agree with you.

    Rather than suppress our sexuality we should learn to control and own it. Not being afraid of it.

    What you are suggesting is overwriting addiction pathways in your neurological system with new ones. However, I don't think beginners and rookies should attempt at that. Also, this is still experimental and not a lot of people have tried it. It has a certain risk with it, so to say.
    People can try to introduce normal sexual behaviour after they have recovered. What an addicts brain needs to do at the start is nothing. don't stimulate it with erotic content, don't arouse it. Allow it to recover and to normalize it's chemical composition.
     
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  8. Liv4ever

    Liv4ever Fapstronaut

    Quite well put !
     
    bobross likes this.
  9. ZenAF

    ZenAF Fapstronaut

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    I have used this approach very successfully in the last 41 days. Never once have I come close to relapsing (which to me means masturbation to porn). But whenever I had the urge to watch porn, I looked at it. Not soft porn, I watched the same hard core stuff I used to watch. I gave my brain exactly what it was used to wanting. I say "used to" because I changed the value that porn has to me. I don't like it anymore, most of it is bad quality, it's a cheap thrill and never as good as one thinks it is.

    So every time I got the urge to watch I just watched. As I watched I would get turned off. I show my brain time and time again "This is what you want? Look at it. It sucks." and my lust goes "but what about thi... hmm ok but what about this... hmm fuck. It does suck." And then I stop watching after just 4-5min, not because I have to, but because I literally don't feel like continue watching.
    There's some truth here. I have to say it took me two years of trying to quit to get to this point. I understand my addiction physiologically and more importantly psychologically. I got my lust back on my side rather than being an enemy, I'm of one mind and I know what I want. I stopped doubting my decision to quit. So getting to this point is not easy, but once you get there it's real easy. I don't have any mental battles, or other struggles during this streak. (My last longest streak used to be 17 days and every day was a struggle).

    The benefits of this method are clear:
    1. When you can look at porn and you don't have the intention to relapse, you know you're fully serious about quitting. If you "feel a strong urge to relapse" that just means that you're still playing games with yourself.
    2. I don't have to care about triggers. I'm shaking my head at the poor people on this forum who need to block even Instagram because of fears of relapsing. They're running from the problem instead of solving it.

    Relapses, and most people here don't understand this, are NOT caused by triggers. They are caused by you not knowing what you want. You're split in two. One side wants to quit, the other doesn't. The side that wants to quit has almost nothing to offer and the side that doesn't has (apparently, but not actually) a lot to offer. As long as you don't solve this, relapse is just a matter of time, not a matter of being triggered.
     
  10. bobross

    bobross Fapstronaut

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    We get triggered because the relevant connections in the brain have not decayed yet. If you feel a strong urge to relapse, it means you're on the right track, your brain ain't getting the stimulation it is configured to.
    Yes, some people aren't truly ready to quit. But there's a difference between addiction induced cravings and secretly wanting to PMO, don't put different things in the same pot.
    And people aren't addictes the same way. Look at smoking, some decide to quit after many years, and never put a cigar in their mouth again. Others, after half that time, can't live 1h without going for a smoke. Same with sex addiction, except there's no substance to leave the body in a couple days/weeks/months.
    As a general rule, I think we should stay away from anything porn related. If that means deleting Instagram, so be it. It's the fastest route to a successful reboot. But for that, indeed you must know what you want.
    What you described is a particular psychology trick, I don't remember the exact name. But it involves breaking a certain type of mental conditioning, by doing on purpose the one thing you're obsessed to avoid (most commonly used for stutters, or a range of phobias). It only works for particular cases and should not be generalized.
     
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  11. escape_the_drug_

    escape_the_drug_ Fapstronaut

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    what are you talking about man are u seriously advocating porn use on this website if so then you dont belong on here
     
  12. ZenAF

    ZenAF Fapstronaut

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    Our brains all work with the same mechanics. What differs is our mentality. An addicted brain is an addicted brain.
    I've tried the "avoid it at all costs" method. Installed porn blockers, gave the password to my friend, joined this forum, prayed to god, distracted myself, meditated, I did everything but deal with my addiction. I realized after 1.5 years of relapse after relapse, that the only thing that matters is not how I setup my environment, but what I really want. It always comes down to the choice, to quit or not to quit. And you think what's stopping you from quitting are external stimuli, but that's not true. It's because you are not done with porn, you on some level still hold the belief that porn has value and belongs to your life. That's why you relapse.
    Giving your brainchemistry the blame just pushes off the responsibility you should hold. Mind over matter. Porn can't force your hand. You're not a deterministic playtoy of the universe. You have free will, if you truly want to quit, you need to understand what that means.

    We can talk all day about DeltaFosB and how giving porn stimuli to the addicts brain reinforces the pathways and so on. That's not going to get you anywhere. All that tells you is that yes, your brain is going to send PMO impulses and that's normal. That's all. It is not telling you how you should approach your addiction. It doesn't tell you what it is on a psychological, or should I say religious level, so you may understand the depth of it.

    I strongly disagree. If you feel a strong urge it means you want it. And I don't mean your brain is addicted so it makes you want it. I mean YOU want it.
    I'm still addicted, I've been 40 days clean from PMO, but that's nothing against 14 years. But I don't want it anymore! What's changed? I changed, not my brain chemistry. And now it's easy for me. That's not luck. It's the right method.
     
  13. UnyieldingAntiHero

    UnyieldingAntiHero Fapstronaut

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    In Nofap there is a "cold turkey" approach and a "warm turkey" approach. Cold turkey would be no Porn + No Masturbation at least.

    Warm turkey allows masturbation but forbids watching Porn. Most experts agree that porn is more harmful than masturbation.

    By watching porn, your brain essentially does not change. By masturbation with fantasizing your brain essentially doesnt change.

    Thats why warm turkey only allows for mechanical non-fantasy stimulation and essentailly trains you off porn.

    Watching Porn while not masturbating may sound similar in nature, is however completely different.
     
  14. 4DCreator

    4DCreator Fapstronaut

    I am trying to read again if I missed something. I am sorry my man. I have never read such a bunch of bullshit. Is that from your head? When you are on nofap you are not watching anything! I am extremely aroused by women feet. When I watch women feet it gives me so much dopamine that I can watch it for hours and I will do more damage to my brain then if I was watching porn for a half hour and fap on it. If something sexual makes you aroused don't watch it so your dopamine receptors can adjust and also your vision of women as a sexual bodyparts can eventually slowly repair. What softcore are you talking about?
     
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  15. Aware

    Aware Fapstronaut

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    I think telling someone what will or will not work for them with such certainty is a little off base.

    Different things work for different folks. Maybe if you said "what I have found" or "what some have found".

    Back to your point, imo to totally ignore the biochemistry as irrelevant part of the addiction is a bit foolish, regardless of what methods work for you. Understanding the biochemistry was a huge step for me to break the addiction, so I am at lease one case where "thats not going to get you anywhere " is false.
     
  16. ZenAF

    ZenAF Fapstronaut

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    I'm not saying it's irrelevant. I'm saying it's not crucial.

    We're not robots, we don't perceive our inner world as a network of neurons with an "addiction cluster". We are humans, we perceive our inner world similar to the external one, filled with characters and stories. We frame our perception in a story-like manner and act accordingly. We don't do that out of childish sillyness, but because from a evolutionary perspective that seems to be an efficient way of seeing ourselves, even if at the end of the day "it's just neurons firing."
    So when it comes to your addiction you should see it through that lens too (which you do anyway, but maybe try do it more consciously). Your lust is like a character inside of you which is sick. It has it's own goals and it's own little belief system. Most guys here start to, and I used to be among them, make their own lust their enemy. That's a mistake. Your lust needs to be convinced and needs to synchronize it's beliefs of porn with the ones of the conscientious part of you.
    When you manage that, that's when you stop fighting yourself, stop doubting yourself and can finally stick with your decision to quit.

    You'll still get impulses, because, and that's where the biochemical reality comes in to play, your brain is addicted. But now it's easy to deny those impulses. Because you're suddenly sure of how to handle them.

    That's why I'm so convinced of this method. It tackles the root of the problem. Because most of the practical solutions that come from a purely biochemical view on addiction lead to spending all your time and energy on trying to avoid triggers, "to no upset the biochemistry". smh
     
  17. Its basically the same as dealing with anxiety. The more you think about forgetting it the worse it gets.
     
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  18. UnyieldingAntiHero

    UnyieldingAntiHero Fapstronaut

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    I agree, antagonizing or even 'fearing' your sexual drive won't help in any way. However, none of what you said has yet legitimized watching P during a reboot.

    "So getting to this point is not easy, but once you get there it's real easy. I don't have any mental battles, or other struggles during this streak." (My last longest streak used to be 17 days and every day was a struggle)."

    You do know that struggles and urges are actually a very positive thing? I am happy to have urges. Urges tell you that what you are doing it right. That your brain is going panic-mode because it stopped getting it's fix and the addicted neurological pathways in your brain are in danger of atrophying.
    There is meaning meaning in sacrifice.

    If I had to take an educated guess the reason you don't feel urges is because you your neuro-pathways can happily keep existing off watching P every other time as well as you brain getting it's fix.


    It's okay if you want to experiment with watching P during a reboot, however, if you don't know the outcome - and I'd say as you are still of nofap you aren'r cured yet - I do hope that you won't sell your method to new people as something that's been proven.
     
  19. Aware

    Aware Fapstronaut

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    If you read any of my other posts in this forum, you would know I strongly advocate AGAINST fighting or running or hiding from the urges / triggers, so I agree with all you say there. What I found in my own experience is acknowledging the urge and changing how I think about it was very powerful tool for me controlling the urge vs the urge controlling me. I feel this method is more of a permanent solution, as you suggested as well.

    Maybe we are just talking semantics, but I feel the method that worked for me is based on bio-chemistry, as is everything that happens in the brain (unless we want to talk about religion, spirituality, etc etc, which is an entirely different, and much more complicated discussion)
     
    ZenAF likes this.
  20. ZenAF

    ZenAF Fapstronaut

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    So you're trying to tell me that looking at porn is the same thing as masturbating to porn? And that's "a fix" for my brain? I'm sorry but that's rubbish, even on a neurological level.
    I agree it is a fix to some degree, but it's not the same thing as jerking off to porn at all. Like you can't even compare the amount of dopamine that gets released through masturbation and through orgasm, to the amount of dopamine you get simply by looking at a naked pair of tits.

    Consider this: Most people here when they look at porn they start to jerk off within a short period of time, they think they don't even have an option, that's why they're so scared of triggers. I used to be same. Now I'm not anymore and it's easy! After two years of trying to quit, lots of relapses (and by the way, the last 17 day streak I also looked at porn from time to time, it was still not the same thing I am doing now.) That radical shift to me is legitimization enough to advocate this method.

    Let me explain the method one more time, so you don't mischaraterize it:
    (This is after you've done all the mental work, self-analysis etc.)
    The idea is to conceptualize becoming sexually healthy as the meta-goal. That entails getting rid of my pornography addiction.
    That's a big goal in and off itself. Now whenever you continuously fail at a goal, like I did for two years, it's a clear indication that you're aiming too high. The goal needs to broken down into smaller more manageable steps.

    So I created a sub-goal: Do not jerk off to porn for 45 days. I don't care about looking at it, I don't care about masturbation and sex. Guess what, it works. I'm three days away from achieving that goal.
    Once that's achieved I will go for another 30 days. Then, and only then, will I make another goal which entails stop looking at it as well.

    What's the point? Well I'm having a way easier time then all the people who go monk mode. Considering the enormous relapse rate that monk-mode has, I would say I'll also get rid of my addiction faster. Because once I set the goal to not look at it anymore, my brain was already trained for 75 days that porn has nothing to do with masturbation and orgasm. I'll bet you that will be easier too than trying to quit everything at once from the get-go. When you take people off heroine you put them on a methadone program, you don't just take it all away.
    The turtle wins the race.
    Because I'm actually achieving the goals that I set myself, which activates my reward-system, provides me with plenty of motivation to continue.

    Again, to be clear, watching porn during the recovery is not why this works, it is in no way essential for the method. The point of the method is to break the goal down into something you can manage.
    Sure there are a few people who actually manage to go full monk mode, with iron discipline,manage to get through it, and they actually get rid of their addiction faster than I will. But to suggest that the majority of the forum, especially beginners, are among those highly disciplined people is foolish. Most people here would be better off with my method. Slow and steady approach.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019

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