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For Fapstronauts of the Catholic Christian Faith

  1. Keli

    Keli Fapstronaut

    Así mismo. De esta manera; no.. le oro pidiendo q me cure y me libere pero nunca describiendo. Aunque el otro día en l Santísimo le hable a Jesús de mis deseos y le pedí q sane mi sexualidad y reoriente mis deseos porque q se que no están bien de esa manera..

    Muy bonito. Lo intentaré.. muchas gracias..
    Realmente hice del placer y de esas lecturas un ídolo.
    Necesito amar más a Dios para ponerlo en primer lugar y dejar de pecar..
     
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  2. CPilot

    CPilot Fapstronaut

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    I have created such idols to human flesh and human actions in my mind and when I admit my sinful thoughts to Our Lord, He helps me see what worthless things I have chosen to worship when compared to the beauty and glory of Our Lord. I think that each such realization in prayer is akin to taking a hammer and chisel to my false idols. Slowly, they are being destroyed but if I let my mind go unchecked they can be reconstructed.
     
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  3. Keli

    Keli Fapstronaut

    Si..
    Hoy tuve terapia.. por eso no caí. Pero estuve muy tentada.
    Por un lado quiero dejar de caer. Pero por otro lado me gusta demasiado ese placer...
    Busco un hombre que me de atención . Pero esa forma no es una forma sana . Lo se .
    Mi terapeuta me dio algunas estrategias . Junto con la oración espero q me sirvan.
     
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  4. CPilot

    CPilot Fapstronaut

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    I am praying for you today.
     
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  5. Keli

    Keli Fapstronaut

    Gracias .
    Había prometido no caer en adviento..
    Pero aunque hago reflexiones y oraciones a diario, sigo cayendo .
    Hoy más una vez.. una única vez sí. Sólo en lecturas y MO . Porque me vicie en esas lecturas..
    Hoy vi un vídeo en Instagram de una chica q hablaba de entregar nuestros deseos a Dios . De agradecer por ellos pero pedir a Dios que reoriente esos deseos como deben ser.. .
    Pero no logré hacerlo . Volví a fallar..

    Sigo luchando . Pero quería tenés más días limpios ya para navidad
     
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  6. Mr Eko

    Mr Eko Fapstronaut

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    Why do you promise something which you aren't able to keep? The advent is long - 4 weeks. You shouldn't promise anything difficult for so long. Something difficult we can promise only for short time - for example for some hours, maybe a day. And only if you have kept such a short promise you can prolong it a bit next time, for example for 2 days ...

    I had never kept too long promises when I was addicted. It's much better not to promise than to promise something practically impossible to do for the time being.
     
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  7. Keli

    Keli Fapstronaut

    Tienes razón . Pensé que podría. .ya había llegado 90 días antes.. pero no se q me pasa ahora. ...
     
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  8. Mr Eko

    Mr Eko Fapstronaut

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    But what only matters is your present state. If in the last 40 or 30 days you could endure without pmo at most 7 or 10 days then your promise can't be for longer time. It's because your will, mind and body can endure only so long at the time being. Our past doesn't matter. It doesn't matter for your body and psyche what you achieved some years, some months or some weeks ago. It' s only the past, history - nothing else.
    Imagine, you ate 2 days ago 2 kg of delicious meat, 2 kg potatoes and 2 kg of your favourite cake or various types of cake you like. So 2 days ago you were totally full and you had absolute no desire to eat anything else.
    But imagine that yesterday you ate nothing. You only drank water. And imagine what would be your state today. Would you be hungry today?
    I'll answer instead of you - Yes, you would be hungry as a wolf today.
    So you see - for your body, psyche, emotions, habits etc. it doesn't matter what you achieved some time ago. Your body and mind are able to endure only so long how much long they have endured in the previous days.
    Another example - 30 years ago I was able to do 80 push-up but today I'm able to do 20 at most. For my body it's only history. It doesn't mean that I won't be able to do 80 push-ups in 2 or 3 years. It's quite possible provided I exercise every day from now on. But today and in the comming months it's absolutely impossible for me to do 80 push-ups.

    And this was your mistake with that your broken promise.
     
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  9. Keli

    Keli Fapstronaut

    Es verdad..
    A veces espero un milagro. Que después de misa oración y comunión Dios va hacer un milagro y ya no tendré estos deseos de placer. De buscar PMO o lecturas eróticas.
    Pero por tus escritos y por experiencia ya aprendí q no es así.
     
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  10. Mr Eko

    Mr Eko Fapstronaut

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    Yet to tell the truth it's possible. I wrote already that I met personally a man who after 2 prayers lasting some seconds lost his desire to drink alcohol and after some days (another prayer) lost his desire to smoke and he had been for decades a chain smoker and alcoholic. So we shouldn't exclude a miracle. But it's an uncommon way and rare. The common way for vast majority of people is the daily struggle and work with achieving actual graces plus habitual grace - a gradual healing lasting all our life. It's the same with sanctity. Healing = sanctity and vice versa. And we don't know which way God chose for us. All is possible.
     
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  11. Keli

    Keli Fapstronaut

    Parece ser que a mí me toca luchar mucho y en serio. Cada hora y cada día. .aprender a odiar el placer que viene de la M.. y aprender a reaccionar ante las. Tentaciones. Recordar que debo orar y amar más la gracia de Dios q el Placer de la M o lecturas Eróticas.
     
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  12. CPilot

    CPilot Fapstronaut

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    I'm sure that there are not many people in the world who could withstand being immersed in regular and constant temptation. For the rest of us, we can only find freedom from this sin by avoiding temptation. To paraphrase Matt 18:19, if Instagram causes you to sin, pluck it out.
     
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  13. Mr Eko

    Mr Eko Fapstronaut

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    We can't learn it. We can't do it with our will or reasoning process. The human nature will always like pleasure (good or bad ). Some hatred of the pmo sin is a grace of God and this grace gives God to us when we are praying (I mean here staying in conscious presence of God, a longer staying like in adoration, longer prayer or Mass).
    I don't feel hatred to pmo sin or to pmo pleasure. I remember and know that it's the most intensive pleasure I experienced and sometimes the possibility of the pleasure tempts me mildly. What I feel is rather deep terrible fear what happens If I come back to this sin breaking at the same time the current promise and destroying what I have achieved and and fearing the desire enslaving me anew. And this intense fear I feel is the grace of God because it stops me from pmo.
    It's the same as above - we can't learn to love God or His grace(s) - this is His grace too. It will be given to us in prayer process. We can't produce that love with our struggling, acts of will, reading the Bible or religious books, meditating on the topic etc. All we can is start to pray , receive Sacraments ... and this love will be given to us gradually according to our prayers (their quality and quantity)
     
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  14. Keli

    Keli Fapstronaut

    Gracias por tus sabias palabras siempre y por su sinceridad.

    Es realmente eso lo q necesito
     
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  15. Keli

    Keli Fapstronaut

    Día 0
    Tal como dices Sr Eko..
    Me gusta demasiado ese placer y aunque me repita que me hace daño físico y sicológico. Y que me aleja de Dios nno consigo dejar de hacerlo.
    No consigo cortar de raíz los pensamientos y orar o leer una cita bíblica..
    Pero seguiré luchando .
    Algún día lograre..
    Pero ahora mismo me está costando..
     
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  16. It might sound cliché but I have been really trying to change the words I use…for instance when I’m tempted to despair I want to say “it’s impossible” or “I can’t” so I have been asking God for the grace to say “nothing is impossible with God” or “God can take this or help me carry it”. It’s like when I get frustrated by something I would catch myself saying “I need a break” or “give me a break” which is modern language for “get me off this cross”. With God’s grace I have been changing that to “give me strength Lord”, or “Jesus, help me continue”.

    There are two realities we must always believe:
    1. God won’t save us from our own free will.
    2. Nothing is impossible with/for God.
     
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  17. Keli

    Keli Fapstronaut


    Para mí lo primero va contra lo segundo.
    Yo sé que nada es imposible para Dios. Pero no me salvará. Ya que tengo libre albedrío y yo elijo caer a la hora de la tentación.
    Pero al mismo tiempo creo que no puedo sola y necesito su ayuda..

    Y justamente porque se que nada es imposible para él es que estoy seguro que me puede sanar si quiere. Pero por algun motivo no lo hacen..quizás necesito aprender muchas otras cosas
     
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  18. CPilot

    CPilot Fapstronaut

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    Isn't expecting God to heal us, without expending the required effort ourselves, putting God to the test?

    I have begun thanking God for my weakness because resisting temptation is one way that I can demonstrate my love and respect for God. I admit, it would be much easier if God took my weakness away from me but I can see that by not doing so, He is drawing me to Him.
     
  19. Mr Eko

    Mr Eko Fapstronaut

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    Keli,

    I suppose I know why your efforts don't work enough. Reading what you write I came to conclusion that you make two basic mistakes in fighting the pmo sin.

    1. Lack of long enough prayer at each pmo temptation
    2. Lack of / or not enough contrition or purpose of amendment in confession ( I mean not avoiding occasions of pmo sins) In your case the occasions are reading erotic texts or internet conversations with men where it's topic is sexually arousing.

    Why is this so important and why you must change that - I wrote about it on my thread ''7 years ...'' but I post it here too. Please read the points and take conclusions ... and change this.




    There are lots of believers who are not able to get rid of pmo addiction using means of Catholic Church. They can think that the means are not enough, that they need something additional - like therapies, 12 step groups, some anti pmo forums etc. but they often don't realize that they do something wrong in applying Catholic means - that the fault is theirs.

    Below I'll show traditional Catholic teaching coming from 2 treatises on grace and Sacraments. I read some parts of this material (plus many other sources of traditional old Catholic teaching) 10 years ago, took notes and then I implemented them and now I am free. This teaching can show you where the mistake often is. The mistake making your struggles futile or fruitless.

    So read, take conclusions and comment if you agree or disagree. There are my comments (written in italic) to the original sentences.

    The statements come from two old volumes (having imprimatur):

    1. ''The Sacraments explained according to the teaching and doctrine of the Catholic Church : with an introductory treatise on grace''
    by Devine, Arthur, 1849-1919


    https://archive.org/details/5thsacramentsexp00deviuoft/page/n5/mode/1up

    2. ''Handbook of the Christian religion for the use of advanced students and the educated laity''
    by Wilmers, Wilhelm, 1817-1901


    https://archive.org/details/HandbookOfTheChristianReligion/page/n5/mode/2up


    So, I'll be trying to show that two common causes of ''not working'' Catholic means are:

    1. Lack of long enough prayer at each pmo temptation
    2. Lack of / or not enough contrition or purpose of amendment in confession ( I mean not avoiding occasions of pmo sins)



    God does not refuse His grace to those who do what lies in their power - it must be understood to mean, that God does not refuse further graces to those who, to the best of their ability, co-operate with the graces given them.
    What lies in our power is to start praying in temptation – this is cooperation with the God’s grace. We open ourselves to God’s grace to endure temptation. If we don’t start praying we form an obstacle to grace, we aren’t opened to His grace and we fall as a rule.

    Man left to himself will, at some moment transgress the moral law, because of the difficulties connected with its observance.
    Man left to himself is when he doesn’t pray in temptation.
    will, at some moment transgress the moral law – will give up to pmo.


    it was not impossible for man to observe the law because God was ready to supply by His assistance what was lacking
    it was not impossible for man to observe the law
    it was not impossible for man not to give up to pmo temptation

    Without the aid of grace man is unable from a morally good motive to overcome strong temptations.
    Without the aid of grace (and we get this aid when we are praying) man is unable from a morally good motive (for example our knowledge and experience that pmo is damaging, bad) to overcome strong pmo temptations.

    The holy fathers are accustomed to deduce necessity of grace from Christ's precept to watch and pray, that we may not enter into temptation
    Christ's precept to watch and pray, that we may not enter into temptation (these are Christ’s words.
    necessity of grace = necessity of prayer at the time of temptation


    man can of his own strength fulfil the easier moral duties, so he can of himself overcome the lesser temptations
    man can of his own strength (without prayer) overcome the lesser pmo temptations. So, without prayer he gives up to stronger pmo temptations sooner or later. As a rule – sooner rather.

    The assistance of grace is necessary also for the just to observe the moral law and overcome grievous temptations
    The assistance of grace (which is given during prayer) is necessary (so prayer in pmo temptation is necessary) also for the just (for people who are in the state of sanctifying grace) to observe the moral law (not doing sexual sins is moral law for sure) and overcome grievous temptations.

    Many wonder why God doesn’t work after confession, when they are in sanctifying grace. They think God will protect them automatically but it’s an illusion. God wants us to pray in temptation – look at Jesus’s words above. The people think that Catholic religion doesn’t work and go to therapists paying thousands of dollars if they are able to.

    The just man needs the help of grace for the performance of supernatural works
    “Without Me you can do nothing"

    The just man (after confession, in the state of grace) needs the help of grace (actual grace which is given in prayer mostly) for the performance of supernatural works (supernatural works are avoiding of pmo sins too)
    “Without Me you can do nothing" (so if we don’t pray in temptation we do as if we can resist strong temptations without Jesus – using only our will power wisdom that pmo is damaging but if it is true then what are you doing on this forum?)


    therefore actual grace is necessary also for the just
    therefore actual grace (given during prayer or Sacraments) is necessary also for the just (in sanctifying grace)

    Though the just man possesses in sanctifying grace the power to perform supernaturally good works, yet this power must be aroused and strengthened (physically or mentally) and this is done by means of actual grace.
    the just man possesses in sanctifying grace the power to perform supernaturally good works (the power not to pmo), yet this power must be aroused and strengthened (so without prayer the power is not strong enough – it’s only the power to overcome mild pmo temptations or the power to pray mostly) and this is done by means of actual grace (so by means of prayer).

    The just need actual grace to enable them to observe the entire moral law, and to overcome strong temptations
    The just need actual grace (need to pray) to enable them to observe the entire moral law (so without prayer they are not able to overcome strong pmo temptations) , and to overcome strong temptations

    He who is in the state of grace is still weak, for sanctifying grace does not remove the difficulties arising from our depraved nature.
    He who is in the state of grace is still weak, for sanctifying grace (sanctifying grace is not the same as actual grace and actual grace is given in prayer, sanctifying grace we have permanent until grave sin – so even if we don’t pray) does not remove the difficulties arising from our depraved nature.

    Even the just man needs a special grace to persevere in good to the end
    Even the just man needs a special grace (additional actual grace given in prayer) to persevere in good (not to give up to pmo) to the end

    The Second Council of Orange teaches against the Semi-Pelagians, who attributed perseverance to man's free will, that "the regenerate and holy must also beg earnestly for the help of God in order to be able to attain to a happy end or persevere in good’’
    regenerate and holy - people in sanctifying grace.
    beg earnestly for the help of God = pray in temptation


    The Council of Trent condemns the assertion that the just man can without a special assistance of God persevere in justice.
    without a special assistance of God = given in prayer
    justice = for example justice is not doing pmo


    God gives sufficient grace to all the just to fulfil their duties and to overcome temptations.

    "The eyes of the Lord are upon the just, and His ears unto their prayers’’
    God gives sufficient grace to all the just to fulfil their duties and to overcome temptations.

    "… their prayers’’ (this is the context – if we pray in temptation

    This care of God for the just entitles us to conclude that He will give them all graces requisite for their salvation, at least if they ask for them.
    all graces requisite for their salvation (salvation from pmo is a type of salvation too)
    if they ask for them.= (prayer)


    ‘’God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that which you are able, but will make also with temptation issue, that you may be able to bear it "

    God, therefore, being faithful, gives to the just grace either immediately sufficient for the fulfilment of all their duties and for the victory over all their temptations, or at least mediately sufficient, i.e., the grace of prayer, by means of which they may obtain further graces

    or at least mediately sufficient, i.e., the grace of prayer (so God gives us sometimes only the grace to pray so that we can pray and as a result we get the further grace not to give up to pmo. If we don’t cooperate with this first God’s grace of prayer and if we don’t start praying then we won’t get the further grace of not giving up to pmo) ), by means of which they may obtain further graces

    The Council of Trent condemns the reformers who asserted that "it is impossible even for the just and those living in the state of grace to keep all of God's commandments.’’
    those living in the state of grace to keep all of God's commandments.’’ (so it is sure that we can be free of pmo provided we are in the state of sanctifying grace and pray in temptation if we state that it’s sometimes impossible then we are condemned by The Council of Trent

    man may resist grace and withhold his co-operation - there is, consequently, grace which is barely sufficient, but inefficacious through our own fault.
    man may resist grace (when he doesn’t pray in temptation) and withhold his co-operation (to pray is to cooperate with God) - there is, consequently, grace which is barely sufficient, but inefficacious through our own fault. (so it’s our fault if we don’t pray in temptation and we make God’s grace inefficacious by our lack of cooperation. Many say God’s help is inefficacious but have they tried enough to pray any time if they feel temptation and as long as the temptation lasts?)

    If sufficient grace is given, at least to all the just, to keep the commandments and to overcome temptations, and if even the just yield to temptation and relapse into sin, — it is manifest that there are graces which are sufficient, but ineffectual through man's own fault.
    there are graces which are sufficient (the grace to pray in temptation), but ineffectual through man's own fault.(when we decide not to pray in temptation)

    St. Augustine in harmony with the Church teaches that it depends on man's free will to consent to asking for grace, or to withhold his consent and make it ineffectual.
    to consent to asking for grace (to start to pray for grace)
    withhold his consent and make it ineffectual. (withhold his consent to pray in temptation and make the sufficient grace ineffectual.)


    man can by the action of his free will co-operate with graces or resist them.
    man can by the action of his free will co-operate with graces (when he prays in temptation) or resist them.(if we resist praying thinking that it’s futile or not working)

    We call those graces strictly efficacious with which man freely co-operates, which have the effect intended by God.
    So we make God’s grace efficacious if we cooperate = pray.


    Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


    Below there are some statements which show that we form an obstacle to God’s grace not to pmo if our purpose of amendment is not real and if we have no true contrition in the Sacrament of penance.
    There are no my comments below.

    confession

    The firm purpose of amendment is the resolution to avoid, by the grace of God, not only sin, but also the dangerous occasions of sin.

    a simple desire is not enough, namely, to say – ‘’If there were no temptations in my way I would wish to avoid sin.’’ – it is not enough.

    The resolution is an act of the will by which I say, I wish to amend my life, or I wish in future to abstain from sin and avoid its occasion.


    The purpose of amendment, to be real, should have three qualities - it should be firm, universal and efficacious.

    firm - the penitent should be so disposed that for nothing in the world would he fall into sin again, no matter what may be the consequence ; that for no earthly advantage or no earthly calamity or suffering will he yield to sin. Without this disposition there is no true contrition, for conversion requires the absolute destruction of the will to sin in all possible cases and circumstances.


    The purpose of amendment should be efficacious - the penitent should resolve to avoid not only sin, but to take all the means and precautions (measures taken in advance to prevent something dangerous) necessary for avoiding sin ; and try to overcome the evil habits of sin, to fly from all proximate (closest) occasions of sin.

    the avoiding of places, persons, and things that have been the occasion of sin, or that expose one to the danger of sinning — these are the signs of a true resolution not to fall again into sin.

    repeated relapses and negligence in adopting the means to avoid sin can well be regarded a lack or defect in the resolution or firm purpose of amendment.

    Our first duty in order to obtain true sorrow for sin is to pray earnestly that God may grant it to us

    contrition is a gift of God, we should never fail to ask it earnestly of Him ; to ask it through the intercession of the Blessed Virgin.


    Those who are unwilling to renounce or give up a proximate occasion of sin.

    The occasions of sin may be either remote or proximate. Remote is that in which a person rarely falls ; the proximate is that in which a person frequently falls into sin.

    there is no obligation of avoiding the remote occasion of sin.


    The proximate occasion is that which of itself leads to mortal sin and frequently, if you are frequently in the occasion. It is any external thing or circumstance, of place, person, act or employment, which leads a person into sin.

    It has two characteristics :

    (1) the likelihood of one failing into mortal sin on account of the close connection between the occasion and the sin, so that there is a moral danger of a fall.

    (2) the frequency of the falls - that this particular man in this or that particular occasion frequently sins.

    for example, going into a public-house would be a proximate occasion of sin to a drunkard.

    the occasion may be either voluntary or involuntary. Voluntary, or free, is that which can easily be given up completely.

    involuntary, or necessary, is that which it is either morally or physically impossible to given up completely.


    A proximate occasion of sin may be avoided in a twofold way : physically and morally. Physically, when the person or place is absolutely shunned, and that given up which was the occasion of sin.

    Morally, the proximate occasion may be given up completely when the person or place is not absolutely abandoned, but when proper means are taken to remove the moral danger of sin which is connected with it, or when the proximate occasion becomes remote.


    Those who find themselves in the proximate occasion of sin, and are unwilling to renounce or avoid the occasion, are not disposed to receive absolution, because they have still the will to sin and lack the resolution of amendment.

    Penitents ought not to deceive themselves by promising amendment, without the will to give up the occasion, and when it is a voluntary and continuous occasion, let it be abandoned and renounced even before absolution.

    after two or three times the penitent can know by experience that his promises to avoid the occasions were weak and futile, and he did not keep them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2022
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  20. Keli

    Keli Fapstronaut

    Muchas gracias Sr Eko.
    Por un lado siempre están las ganas de pecar.. pero otro otro lado ya no quiero eso para mí.
    Quiero vivir mi sexualidad de manera sana.
     
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