Fantasizing is it really okay?

S

Sad_wife

Fapstronaut
This is from a non religious place. I am not Christian. But I do think there is a golden thread of right and wrong.

yes our brains are our own… blah blah blah. I get it. I’m all for personal freedom. But when you are in a committed relationship do you really feel like it’s right?

let do an exercise. How do you feel after fantasizing about someone? Do you feel and guilt? Shame? When we feel these things our subconscious is telling us something is off. In a sense your self is telling you it’s wrong. And even dangerous for people with impulse control issues or PA MO addiction. What we spend time thinking about energy gets sent to. I do believe our thoughts manifest our reality. And in this way if we spend our thoughts on fantasies other then our partner we are spending energy on someone other then them.

thoughts?
 
It's an interesting question and one that I think might differ slightly between the sexes.

I don't generally fantasise outside of masturbation and I think this is possibly true for many men. If I fantasise about sex outside of masturbation, it is very likely to lead to the temptation to use pornography and/or masturbate.

So it doesn't present an ethical quandary for me distinct from those surrounding PMO. I avoid sexual fantasy as I want to avoid pornography and masturbation. Whether it is in-and-of-itself ethical or unethical is something I've given very little thought.
 
Real Jerry Seinfeld said:
It's an interesting question and one that I think might differ slightly between the sexes.

I don't generally fantasise outside of masturbation and I think this is possibly true for many men. If I fantasise about sex outside of masturbation, it is very likely to lead to the temptation to use pornography and/or masturbate.

So it doesn't present an ethical quandary for me distinct from those surrounding PMO. I avoid sexual fantasy as I want to avoid pornography and masturbation. Whether it is in-and-of-itself ethical or unethical is something I've given very little thought.
Click to expand...

I absolutely love your honesty and opinion on this. Especially the honesty in not really having given thought to it. I believe my husband never thought much on it.

My husband and I have talked a lot about it. We both agree that his thoughts are very impactful. Since discussing several times he’s actually seen this in action. He thoughts are very loud. Even just driving by someone and thinking DAM to himself the lady turned around immediately looking right at him. He was shocked. And he says he tries to keep his thoughts in check now. Especially since fantasizing fairly regularly in regards to a coworker. She started making flirty comments after a while. And I had some dreams of him cheating. I didn’t know he was actively fantasizing. But something felt off sometimes when he went to work. I told him about the dream, which mad him anxious and feel bad. Then one day it can out. I told him I didn’t feel good about it especially because he works with her and it sounds as is she’s attracted too. My husband is very attractive. He said nothing will happen. And I said woman are crafty. If they want something they will come up with a way to make something possible. Devise a situation. And what do you know? She did. His work van was getting work done on it. And she took the keys to her house. I’m not making this up although I know it’s very “dear playboy…”. She called and left a message for him saying she had his keys and was taking a shower, he could come over and get them. The fucking balls on this lady. There was no reason to take his key to her house. He didn’t go to her house. He went to the office and picked up a backup set. But shit… if we didn’t talk about it. I wasn’t aware, and with his lack of impulse control that could have been really bad. He was honest and it set a boundary of accountability. He is more self aware as a result of our conversations. I don’t fantasize. Accept about him. I really do think it’s a symptom of porn use to thane conscious thoughts of sex with people other then your partner. This is just my opinion though. My experience is nothing good comes of it.
 
This is just my take on it what you've told me, but taking his keys to her house and announcing she's in the shower is very forward for someone that's been given no encouragement.

With regards to fantasising, something I do very frequently is check women out, though to me that's distinct from fantasy. I'm not really ruminating on fantasy scenarios, I'm just looking and appreciating in the moment. That really only seems to cross a line for my other half if it lingers too long or if I audiblly go 'phwoar' or something. Even if I do that, she'll just laugh at me or clear her throat in a comical fashion. She knows my disposition and I think she's fairly secure I'd never cross the line by trying to catch their eye or anything.
 
Sad_wife said:
This is from a non religious place. I am not Christian. But I do think there is a golden thread of right and wrong.

yes our brains are our own… blah blah blah. I get it. I’m all for personal freedom. But when you are in a committed relationship do you really feel like it’s right?

let do an exercise. How do you feel after fantasizing about someone? Do you feel and guilt? Shame? When we feel these things our subconscious is telling us something is off. In a sense your self is telling you it’s wrong. And even dangerous for people with impulse control issues or PA MO addiction. What we spend time thinking about energy gets sent to. I do believe our thoughts manifest our reality. And in this way if we spend our thoughts on fantasies other then our partner we are spending energy on someone other then them.

thoughts?
Click to expand...
Fantasizing is okey. Physical cheating not.

We are not monks or saints. We are normal people in relationships.
 
Sad_wife said:
This is from a non religious place. I am not Christian. But I do think there is a golden thread of right and wrong.

yes our brains are our own… blah blah blah. I get it. I’m all for personal freedom. But when you are in a committed relationship do you really feel like it’s right?

let do an exercise. How do you feel after fantasizing about someone? Do you feel and guilt? Shame? When we feel these things our subconscious is telling us something is off. In a sense your self is telling you it’s wrong. And even dangerous for people with impulse control issues or PA MO addiction. What we spend time thinking about energy gets sent to. I do believe our thoughts manifest our reality. And in this way if we spend our thoughts on fantasies other then our partner we are spending energy on someone other then them.

thoughts?
Click to expand...
I've fantasized sexually all the time in my younger years.

From as long as I could remember since age 3. And it was continually. All day long. I've been obsessed for a very long time. And one thing that astonishes me is the fact that many do NOT have the same obsession. Probably for every physical acting out behavior I've done, I've fantasized over a hundred times before actually doing the act.

No, it's not okay. And I don't think any of the 12-step support groups stress that enough. SA to some degree. Anyways, I've had to discover, through my own relapsing, that if I was ever to break free from P and MB, I was going to have to find a way to break free from my lust and fantasy. Otherwise, those building block behaviors will raise the toxicity level in my brain and I will gravitate towards, MB, P, and other acting out behaviors.

It's so important to me that I condition my eyes and mind to align my sexuality with relationship. With relationship towards my wife. That's not been an easy, automatic process grounded in love. This had to take conditioning... CONDITIONING of my mind. Thus, my wife did not become my one and only until I MADE HER MY ONE AND ONLY. My wife did not become enough until I MADE HER ENOUGH.

This has taken practice. And I'm not perfect with it. But I take it seriously. I don't give myself permission to lust or fantasize about another woman other than my wife. This goes against my subconscious instincts. But it's the only way. My instincts are wrong. They are not reality. And though I'm not perfect with it, I've gotten much better. It's not uncommon for me to go for days without any lust and fantasy, which is a miracle, I might add. And I found that this has made staying sexually sober from P and MB a lot easier for me.

With the help of God, It's been easier for me to
Clean up the inside so that the outside would also be clean
rather than to
Clean up my outside hoping that some of that cleanliness might rub off on the inside.
 
Sad_wife said:
This is from a non religious place. I am not Christian. But I do think there is a golden thread of right and wrong.

yes our brains are our own… blah blah blah. I get it. I’m all for personal freedom. But when you are in a committed relationship do you really feel like it’s right?

let do an exercise. How do you feel after fantasizing about someone? Do you feel and guilt? Shame? When we feel these things our subconscious is telling us something is off. In a sense, your self is telling you it’s wrong. And even dangerous for people with impulse control issues or PA MO addiction. What we spend time thinking about energy gets sent to. I do believe our thoughts manifest our reality. And in this way if we spend our thoughts on fantasies other then our partner we are spending energy on someone other then them.

thoughts?
Click to expand...

I've almost always felt off after fantasizing. I would even justify it by saying at least it's not porn. From my perspective and readings, I can honestly say it was my heart(conscience, gut feeling, God all of these) making me feel off. From a marriage perspective, I was not putting my energy as you put it on my wife or our marriage. She was not my priority even with no porn. From the rest of it, I think it had a lot to do with me just treating women as an object rather than a person. Your intentions even if not thought of outright seem to weigh on your conscience, especially with sexual endeavors. The fact that it inevitably led to PM usage just seems to be more proof to me. We are not as careful with our sexual emotions as we need to be. I'm really hoping I can curb that or at least guide my kids to be more guarded on that front.

very interesting question I had to reflect on that one quite a bit.
 
KevinesKay said:
I've fantasized sexually all the time in my younger years.

From as long as I could remember since age 3. And it was continually. All day long. I've been obsessed for a very long time. And one thing that astonishes me is the fact that many do NOT have the same obsession. Probably for every physical acting out behavior I've done, I've fantasized over a hundred times before actually doing the act.

No, it's not okay. And I don't think any of the 12-step support groups stress that enough. SA to some degree. Anyways, I've had to discover, through my own relapsing, that if I was ever to break free from P and MB, I was going to have to find a way to break free from my lust and fantasy. Otherwise, those building block behaviors will raise the toxicity level in my brain and I will gravitate towards, MB, P, and other acting out behaviors.

It's so important to me that I condition my eyes and mind to align my sexuality with relationship. With relationship towards my wife. That's not been an easy, automatic process grounded in love. This had to take conditioning... CONDITIONING of my mind. Thus, my wife did not become my one and only until I MADE HER MY ONE AND ONLY. My wife did not become enough until I MADE HER ENOUGH.

This has taken practice. And I'm not perfect with it. But I take it seriously. I don't give myself permission to lust or fantasize about another woman other than my wife. This goes against my subconscious instincts. But it's the only way. My instincts are wrong. They are not reality. And though I'm not perfect with it, I've gotten much better. It's not uncommon for me to go for days without any lust and fantasy, which is a miracle, I might add. And I found that this has made staying sexually sober from P and MB a lot easier for me.

With the help of God, It's been easier for me to
Clean up the inside so that the outside would also be clean
rather than to
Clean up my outside hoping that some of that cleanliness might rub off on the inside.
Click to expand...

I love this post

The never-ending struggle of God vs our flesh is constant. Always going against our baser instincts is so tough but so rewarding. It yields results almost instantly even if we aren't perfect as you expertly pointed out. Great points to think on for me.

500+ days is inspirational man, well done!
 
If you (not you, but general you as a way to express my opinion) find yourself fantasizing about other people, you're either
1) not in the right relationship
Or
2) not fit for a relationship

It's why communication before commitment is so important. No one wants to commit themselves to someone who will/is already crossing major boundaries and isn't on the same page.

If you have to purposefully hold yourself back from fantasizing about other women in a relationship with me, then just go fantasize and let's end it. I'd rather be alone. I have never once fantasized or really admired anyone in a committed relationship. I have never really started admiring or fantasizing about anyone until I've crossed the point that I've decided I might want to date them. It just doesn't happen. My partner has the benefit of being my genuine tops//ideal/the only object or person of my desire and admiration and drive. If they can't give back what I give, then get out. As soon as they ever aren't in that same mindset and vibe, I feel nothing for them. It grosses me out.
ETA: and I make this really really clear very early on, so it's really only possible to cross this boundary if you're also willing to lie substantially about who you are as a person. So I feel no guilt.following through with leaving when it happens.
 
My wife has told me it’s OK if I fantasize about her. I think the main reason I turned to porn is because I wanted to try different things and do different things with her. Sad part is all the women that looked up all look like her.

Problem I have is when I start fantasizing about someone that I see it can very easily turn into masturbation.
I think it’s pretty normal for me to fantasize about other people but right now since I’m so sensitive since I’m starting this journey to quit. I think it’s best for me not to.
 
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