Fantasy During Sex

Discussion in 'Porn-Induced Sexual Dysfunctions' started by StopHurtingMe, Jan 19, 2019.

What is the most effective way to break dependence on fantasy during sex?

  1. Gradually reduce the amount of time you fantasize during sex

    5 vote(s)
    21.7%
  2. Remove the pressure to have an erection or O, avoid fantasy completely

    16 vote(s)
    69.6%
  3. Fantasy dependence is normal, just accept it

    2 vote(s)
    8.7%
  1. StopHurtingMe

    StopHurtingMe Fapstronaut

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    Let me start by saying that I am a wife in recovery for betrayal trauma. My husband has been PMO free for about a year. My husband and I started touching one another after his 90 day reboot. Initially he would be hard immediately, but after a month or two, he returned to the pre-reboot state of requiring manual stimulation and going completely soft when he is touching me. We progressed to masturbating one another, but neither of us was ready for sex.

    I read about many men who are active in PMO addiction unable to orgasm unless they fantasize about P. So since my husband has been PMO free a year, I asked him about it. My husband says he still does fantasize about other women for a few seconds at a time when I am touching him. Initially he said that thoughts came into his mind involuntarily and then he pushes them away, and that he is working to reduce it. And I was okay with that. But then later he said that he does stay with these fantasies sometimes and that I just need to accept it as normal. When I asked him not to voluntarily engage in fantasies to get erect or to orgasm, he got angry and says I am asking too much that he not fantasize when we are having sex. I feel devestated and cannot bring myself to touch him now. I feel so bad that I am inducing shame but I feel that he is sabotaging his reboot. I just want him to stay with me and let’s work together so he does not need fantasy. I suggested we just touch each other and take a break if he feels pressured to fantasize. It’s not a big deal if he goes soft or doesn’t O. He refuses any approach other than for me to let him reduce his dependency on fantasy at his own pace, and that I just accept it. I am getting my own therapy to address this trauma response, btw.

    So what are your thoughts? If he fantasizes about P while I M him to O, is this going to keep him dependent on the fantasies?
     
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  2. Uruvug

    Uruvug Fapstronaut

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    This is something that I have been wondering about for some time.

    What is porn?..... I mean, is it seeing images of sex? Is it the fact that you are watching it through a screen? If you are seeing some people having sex in real life right in front of you, is that not porn? Or is it any sexual even where you are not really taking a physical part into? Is watching a sextape of yourself having sex with another girl considered porn if you are watching it through a screen? What about if you are just remembering a time when you had sex with some girl? Is that considered porn? Is having mental images that you remember from watching porn, is that considered porn?

    The reason why I ask this question is because one of the most used phrases/ acronyms in this forum is PIED. However, the boundary between what is porn and what isn't is very blurry. So I guess it is important if you want to answer what exactly is causing the ED to have a clear answer as that what the real problem is. Maybe what causes the ED is not really the porn at all, but the fact that you keep switching from one scene to another, in other words, it is the attention deficit caused by so much content being available. Maybe you do this in your head too. Unable to get immersed in a single experience with your partner but rather feel the need to keep getting bombarded by different mental images, thoughts, and things like that. Many people in this forum just try to stay away from anything that could be sexual, anything at all, even just thoughts, but that just makes them asexual beings. I don't want to become an asexual being.

    Anyways, I am going on a rant here, but let me say this. porn is a relatively new thing, especially high speed internet porn. Fantasies have always existed since we were humans. But this problem was apparently not as common before, so what has happened now that didn't exist before. Maybe it is because the library of fantasies has increased due to the so many porn videos available. You get used to seeing all kinds of women in all kind of positions (or men if you're into that), you get used to seeing all kind of things being used, sex toys, sex machines, sex with sex-dolls, scenes of women with a bunch of men, scenes of men with a bunch of women. Maybe it is this exaggerated library of images in your head, and you revisiting them that is causing the issue. I don't know really. Maybe the reason why staying away from internet porn helps is because you start to slowly forget about this images. Will someone who has really good photographic memory be screwed then? because he is able to vividly revisit these memories in the brain?

    Sorry I don't have answers, just more questions. But these are questions worth thinking about, if we want to find the root cause of our sexual problems.
     
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  3. Roady

    Roady Fapstronaut

    Yes it will keep him dependent.
    The stimulation should come from the intimicy and attraction between you and him.
    Everything else will destroy that intimicy
     
    StopHurtingMe likes this.
  4. Reboot16

    Reboot16 Fapstronaut

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    Yes. Gotta get away from needing that dependency. By fantasizing about more extreme things or other women that becomes / stays the "norm" for him. IMO, he still needs more abstinence from porn. Does he have some self-esteem issues as well? He might feel better if he started working out and eating better as well.

    One thing that helped me a ton also is as I got away from porn and began working out (this is a great idea as well as it helps libido when you feel better about yourself) and feeling a lot more masculine and good about the way I looked in general is I started also reading some articles about what women really like in bed. Then when I would have sex with my wife I would focus on mostly pleasing her while enjoying the feeling of everything for myself and that's been a ton of fun, haven't had to worry about losing my erection or anything like that for a while whereas it used to cause quite a bit of consternation for me. It'll be tough for you to bring these types of things up though - if you bring up him working out, etc. he might feel like you're unsatisfied with the way he looks, etc. Does he come to this site? If so, hopefully he'll read some of these suggestions as they were quite helpful to me.
     
  5. Iambrain

    Iambrain Fapstronaut

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    I dont think the benefits of nofap could be felt if youre having pornographic fantasies. Especially when they are intrusive. He shouldnt have to fantasize a out other women to get it up. I think he should try something else maybe meds if hes gotta. Fapping to porn playing in your mind isnt really nofap. In my opinion
     
  6. Amphibian

    Amphibian Fapstronaut

    I'll just speak to my experience, but am going to mention that I am single, and have been single during my nofap time.

    I started initially with the standard mood; ie no porn or masturbation but sexual contact. I did have pretty quick success, but hit a wall because I would engage in fantasies while having sex.

    I did find that going into hardmode, no sexual release at all aside from wet dreams, killed the fantasies within a month. However, after ending hardmode I've noticed they will come back if I start to entertain them, and that leads me to quickly slide back into addiciton and sexual dysfunction.

    The greater realization is that I'll likely have to reboot far longer than I anticipated, and really be mindful of my thoughts while engaging in sexual contact.
     
  7. HopeForTheFuture

    HopeForTheFuture Fapstronaut

    Thanks for the input @Pedantic_Amphibian I am also single and doing NoPMO hardmode at the moment. I was wondering about the fantasies part and if they come back? I will not let my guard down.
     
  8. Amphibian

    Amphibian Fapstronaut

    They can come back, yes. It's indicated two things to me:

    First, I probably need to abstain and reboot far longer. I've gone 90 days and 111 days, but realistically it's probably going to be a year or even more.

    And then yes, Take mindfulness with everything and everyone I engage in.
     
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  9. AlexWillDoIt

    AlexWillDoIt Fapstronaut

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    Those are REALLY good questions, and I am working on those too. Once I asked my boyfriend if he has sexual fantasies while we are having sex, and he too said that to come he thinks about something, that is if the situation we’re in is not really hot or we try something new.
    Now for me I think the problem are all those images, a really mess of too many different scenes and I can’t find one to hold on to. Thinking back, when I started to masturbate, I already had sexual fantasies, never had seen porn. So I guess sexual fantasies are perfectly fine and natural. We are sexual being, animals if you want.
    So for @StopHurtingMe , I think if he does keep away from PMO he is on a good way. Don’t get to anxious about his thought. We all watch other people, find attraction to others, but that doesn’t mean anything, it’s just a natural instinct we have. You never see another man and think he is hot?
     
  10. AlexWillDoIt

    AlexWillDoIt Fapstronaut

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    Those are REALLY good questions, and I am working on those too. Once I asked my boyfriend if he has sexual fantasies while we are having sex, and he too said that to come he thinks about something, that is if the situation we’re in is not really hot or we try something new.
    Now for me I think the problem are all those images, a really mess of too many different scenes and I can’t find one to hold on to. Thinking back, when I started to masturbate, I already had sexual fantasies, never had seen porn. So I guess sexual fantasies are perfectly fine and natural. We are sexual being, animals if you want.
    So for @StopHurtingMe , I think if he does keep away from PMO he is on a good
     
  11. Amphibian

    Amphibian Fapstronaut

    I'm also going to throw this out there; meditation is another great tool for being mindful and present, and itself medigates against fantasies by helping the practitioner stay present and in the moment of intimacy with their partner.
     
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  12. ultrafabber

    ultrafabber Fapstronaut

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    Your story is very interesting but i'm also sad you're going through this.

    The problem for him and most pmo addicts is that they have trained themselves to get aroused through fantasy. I'm having frequent discussions with people here that keep defending sexual fantasizing as "normal, natural, healthy" while they abstain from porn... but they don't realize that sexual fantasizing IS porn. Because ultimately it's not the way one gets aroused that matters (erotic stories, erotic sounds, sex gifs, explicit porn, etc) but that they get aroused THOUGH THEIR IMAGINATION rather than physical proximity and physical sensations. They get sexually aroused by thinking about it.

    That's what your husband is doing, that's what i used to do for a long time and that's what all people here are doing.

    In my case for example, i used to initially have sex with escorts. Some were very good looking and very good in bed. But i could not concentrate on them and even when i was having sex with one escort, i was fantasizing about another or a pornstar. If i focused on what was actually happening, i'd lose my erection. Same thing happened when i had a gf. I had to imagine i was having sex with another woman to keep the erection going. Even if my gf was very sexy and good in bed. One other thing i was doing was that when i was having sex i was actually imagining myself having sex while having sex to keep the erection going.

    I was 100% trained to ignore the woman i was with... and that's what's happening whenever a person has a sex fantasy and/or masturbates. He/She trains herself to get aroused without the stimuli. So when the stimuli (woman) is present, he/she will be totally caught off guard because real sex is the complete opposite of what he trained his brain to react to.

    All pmo addicts, including your husband, need to understand they have to completely stop getting aroused through sexual fantasizing and stop masturbating.

    This is extremely scary though because as a man you completely lose your identity and confidence when you suddenly realize you can't get aroused by real women and real sex... so you are tempted to start "testing" and "maintaining" your erections by fantasizing.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2019
  13. Kitty lover

    Kitty lover Fapstronaut

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    Hi @StopHurtingMe ,

    You ask some good questions and I too wonder the same thing.

    My partner also revealed to me last night that he often fantasizes when he's in bed with me. Mostly about people that we know and that are in our lives. These are the same people that he used to M over- until I put a stop to that. Pretending that he's in bed with them not me has absolutely destroyed every last piece of strength I had throughout the last few months.

    I told him I can understand ( but not necessarily approve of ) P images in his mind etc, but the same reoccurring girls over and over performing sexual acts on him has left me shaken to the core.

    I'm having a really hard time trying to understand that this is part of the addiction- seems more like an infatuation with these individuals.

    This time around my best friends are telling me its time to call it quits. They have been supportive in the past with all this, but this has devastated what was left. I hate to hear that. Feeling lost and alone as this extremely private revelation is not something I can talk about with many people.

    Is there any hope left? The above posts have indicated perhaps- But I'm never ever going to be able to read his mind or trust his intentions when are are intimate.

    Im not coping at all with this one, I wish you all the best and hope things get better for you @StopHurtingMe.

    Xx
     
  14. ultrafabber

    ultrafabber Fapstronaut

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    I hope you understand is that it's not about you and that this should not affect your self esteem (easier said than done).

    Like i was saying in my post, i had had sex with amazing looking women that were very good in bed, yet i was still fantasizing about other women or pornstars to be able to have sex.

    I'm not trying to defend your partner, he obviously has a lot to work on and he needs to take this very seriously, but i'm trying to explain how it looks like from the other side - when a pmo addict stops fantasizing he literally becomes asexual and there can be even worries of being gay, which is devastating to a man. The very fact that one can't get an erection is a pretty traumatic act.
     
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  15. Kitty lover

    Kitty lover Fapstronaut

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    Thanks for your reply,

    Its good to hear another perspective. I'm in no way totally anti- fantasy. I understand that sexual thoughts will come and go. I totally expected porn flashes etc to linger for a long time yet and I have no major problem with that.

    Like I said, its the idea of him still consciously him fantasizing about our friends while he's with me. Very personal. That was one of my boundaries that was set- and his failure to not be able to control this has devastated us.

    He stopped going to counselling, didn't tell me he was struggling with this and now I only know because the fool left it on his Google search, then came clean after my interrogation. I wish like hell I never saw it.

    Yes my esteems taken a huge hit initially- I know he thinks I'm attractive, But what I do believe is that I'm not his sexual taste. Its very hard to convince me otherwise.
    I feel attractive to most other men- but not him. Sad huh.

    He thinks that he never flatlined as such ( he's about 100 days) . But you're right- Im willing to bet if her cuts the fantasies he might be in trouble!

    Anyway thanks for your reply, I'm holding on for dear life here & still not sure which way it will go so its good for me to hear other opinions.
     
  16. kropo82

    kropo82 Fapstronaut

    It sounds like you are both centring his orgasm as the most important thing. Society does that, and porn reinforces the notion that men need orgasm and women should help us with that. But is it true? Is it a right?

    Does he post here? Staying free from masturbating to porn for a year is a massive achievement. But I'm a bit perplexed by this bit: "I asked him not to voluntarily engage in fantasies to get erect or to orgasm, he got angry". One thing I have found (and lots of recovering addicts find) is that we get less defensive as our recovery continues. We are able to have conversations like you had with our wives without our barriers going up and us getting angry. Perhaps it was just a one-off slip. Does he get defensive when you talk about his porn use or his reboot?

    I've not tried 'hard mode'. Most married addicts don't because sexual intimacy is such an important part of marriage. But it sounds like that intimacy is broken for you both. I wonder if he would still turn to fantasies during sex with you after a 90 or 180 day abstinence from everything: porn, masturbation, any orgasms, any edging, etc.?

    === EDIT===

    Just checked the original poster's profile and she's not been online here since the end of January 2019. Oh well.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2019

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