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Fate Worse Than Death - a warning to recoverees

Discussion in 'Porn Addiction' started by GlenSora, Oct 24, 2021.

  1. GlenSora

    GlenSora Fapstronaut

    This post is 100% serious and grave despite the shameful content. And all details are based on my actual experience, edited to avoid self-dox.
    This warning is about the danger of severe PMO addiction when attempting recovery. I hope it helps you avoid my outcome.

    It is known that severe alcohol dependence can make cold-turkey withdrawal not just hellish but life-threatening. The same for benzos and opioids. Do you think withdrawal from severe PMO addiction is harmless? (Possibly because you still believe PMO addiction is "less serious than" other addictions, or "just mental"?) I will argue it is not.
    Further: If you are addicted, you are not a trustworthy judge of how severe your addiction is. If you have a friend or loved one who is addicted, it is still difficult to know.
    Therefore, everyone here has good reason to take this warning seriously.

    =====

    The TL;DR:
    Don't EVER try sucking your own dick.

    More generally:
    Addiction implies a lack of self control. Withdrawal from PMO addiction at the beginning of Nofap will make you even more vulnerable to feelings and impulses you have not previously had to control and contend with. Especially impulses to simply find a way to feel good. Even if that way is physically self-endangering.

    If you do not have an immediate mental flinch reaction against the idea of autofellatio - if ANY part of your mind has an inclination toward it, or can even neutrally consider it - then you are insufficiently armored against the danger.
    One goal of this post is to install that specific flinch reaction, on the simple basis of self-endangerment. If you flinch instead out of disgust or shame, then your reaction stems from pride, and is not sufficient protection.
    You have one spine, one neck, you overestimate how flexible and durable you are, and you should assume that any injuries there will stick around and make you regret them indefinitely. Don't pay that price.

    In that light, am I saying Nofap is so dangerous you shouldn't do it? No.
    Sobriety is 100% worth it, and Nofap is not itself to blame for my mistake.
    Instead you must understand how dangerous the addiction itself is that you are fighting.
    I hope that my example can bolster the defenses of everyone going through this.

    =====

    Nofap WILL initially intensify your sexual urges.
    You are beginning to wage internal warfare against your addictive pattern, and it will become clever. Even as you succeed at withholding from your normal fap, rationalizing ideas can appear in your mind.
    For instance, you may start telling yourself that even though you're trying to quit fap, you "deserve leeway" to satisfy those urges "just a little", and if not the normal way, "some other way". Alternately you may find yourself trying to rationalize that such a behavior is "totally unconnected to" PMO - after all, you're not necessarily trying to reach O, right?

    Under NO circumstances should you ever resort to dangerous experimental sexual behavior, like autofellatio, asphyxiation, etc, to satisfy this urge. You must preemptively install defenses against this allure, and if you are the kind of person trying to Nofap, you are likely less mentally strong against it than you think. If you must relapse, relapse only to your normal fap, which is unlikely to be endangering.

    You may think you have already hit rock bottom, you already hate yourself for your PMO addiction, it doesn't even make you feel good anymore and you just want to stop. This by itself offers zero defense against the rationalizations you will encounter from the blind spots of your mind. Really, zero.

    The part of you that craves this has not yet left you, it is still monomaniacally desperate to repeatedly experience the moment of release, and WILL try any trick it can - blind to negative consequences, including endangering you physically - to get it. And remember, it's part of you - it can be as clever as you can be. This does not necessarily make it a hopeless fight, but it is far harder than you think.

    Seriously every man trying to recover from this addiction needs to know that he is confronting what is probably his strongest demon, that truly might sell his life and health for a moment of pleasure. Something to that effect should come with every Nofap guide. Until you are totally recovered you need to keep your wits about you.

    Besides mental defenses, I think the strongest defense you could have is having someone else you are accountable to for all of your sexual behavior during your recovery, who you can talk to about anything you are feeling and who can ask you at any time what you're feeling.
    Flying solo through this is a critical mistake I think. You may actually want to consider weighing the costs and benefits of going forward right now with your recovery alone against the costs and benefits of seriously waiting until you have an available and committed recovery partner.

    =====

    My personal story is not special in any way. It is shameful and predictable and pitiful.

    Three years ago I was an otherwise healthy early 20s male with a shitty job when I decided to do the dumbest and most costly thing I ever did in my life.
    I was PMOing at least 2 times a day. By trying to stop and then being surprised at how difficult it was, I finally realized I was addicted. So I decided to try to quit: cold turkey, with no support, and without even telling anyone else what I was going through.
    Just a few days in, during one persistent hard-on, the idea came from nowhere: what if? Calling itself harmless curiosity, this idea grew in intensity until every time I went to the bathroom I was thinking about it. And at one week in, I tried it. And then I really really tried it. And I hurt myself, badly.
    My neck was in constant pain. I couldn't think. I spent a considerable amount on a hospital visit, to meekly tell a doctor with better things to do that I had hurt myself in such a stupid way. They sent me home with steroids and benzos and the biggest Advil you've ever seen, and I made a recovery.

    But that pain still comes back to me every few months. I get reminded that I did something to myself that doesn't really go away. Some things are going to hurt more. I take more Advil and it's manageable. It's not good at all. I was just a bit annoyed at life before. Now I'm depressed, at myself, and still feel like I can't tell a soul. I quit that job for a different less shitty job, but it still kills me to deal with this. And even through all that I'm still struggling to quit PMO, as I last posted in my journal thread.

    The Fate Worse Than Death is living knowing that you put yourself in a version of hell.

    =====

    Addiction is any behavior you keep engaging in, despite the negative consequences, because it gets you something you don't know how to get any other way.

    Different people turn to PMO for different reasons, but I know I came to it for pain. Emotional pain, and sometimes physical pain. The thing I get is a moment of pain relief, and I use it because I don't feel like I know other ways to soothe myself that aren't drugs. It's funny that even being zero-tolerance on psychoactive drugs, I got myself addicted to my body's natural chemicals. It is a personal question to all like me, to ask what is the origin of that inability to handle emotional pains? I don't know.

    Addiction means you are using X as a crutch to reliably get Y because you don't know any other healthy way like Z. And this means that if you stop using X, by default you stop getting Y, and this doesn't necessarily lead you to Z - healthy ways of meeting deep needs always need to be cultivated, but the need itself is direly felt. And so you are more likely to move toward something else just as immediate and unhealthy as X.

    And that core wound, the thing that keeps you feeling you need X, has grown very used to sitting in the driver seat and getting what it wants. There is no particular difference in the deep mechanism between PMO addiction and other addictions, subtance or behavioral. An organism is desperate to meet a need and it finds a path. The specifics of what happens chemically may differ, but there is just one pattern, and it can be just as serious in terms of wrecking your life.

    =====

    That is the end of this post. I hope this information gets around.
    I'm leaving this for myself:
    bcf9e710f1f085d76e406c66a927e7fbb3b4934fd4fcae728d856401bdcd78bd
     
  2. learning

    learning Fapstronaut

    I agree with what you say about the dangers of quitting cold turkey. I developed some type of psychosis when I quit PMO cold turkey. I don't know if quitting PMO was the cause of the psychosis, but it happened about two weeks after I quit and I have never had psychosis before or after that. I suspect that quitting PMO disrupted the chemical balance in my brain and caused the psychosis, but I can't prove it. It was a very bad experience, and recovery was several years.

    Also, you might try stretching for you continuing spine pain. I have a lot problems like that, and stretching definitely helps me.
     
    Mr.Lee92 and somuchforsubtlety like this.
  3. jw2021

    jw2021 Fapstronaut

    Thank you for sharing this. I read the whole post. You are in my prayers and I pray you make a full recovery.
     
  4. USER_ERROR

    USER_ERROR Fapstronaut

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    hmm.jpeg
     
  5. Autofellatio? Is that like getting a bj from a car?
     
    kingdawoo likes this.
  6. Cramer

    Cramer Fapstronaut

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    I still struggle with autofellatio. I've gone to a Christian counselor for help to stop, but I can't seem to overcome the addiction. Physical pain does not help me avoid it very much because I don't have a problem performing it. I am very flexible in my lower back, and pretty skinny. I am aware of the Physical damage it will do do my body over time, as well as the sexual exhaustion it will bring by how intense it can be. I also experience great gilt from my addiction, as it has come to the level of idolatry.
     
    jw2021 likes this.
  7. Cramer

    Cramer Fapstronaut

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    And about what you wrote about nofap being so dangerous, I can understand how it would spread far more sexual fantasies into your mind, but that would only be if you browse through the whole forum. I don't struggle with pornography, I only joined the group for support with excessive masturbation, so if I only view the threads that apply to me or that I have experience with, then I don't think I would become infected with more sexual desires. My urges to masturbate come from the cravings for the excitement/pleasure that my body experiences when masturbating.that is how addictions grow.
     
    jw2021 likes this.
  8. I also had Psychosis after quitting porn. Personally, it was a faulty belief that the Coronavirus was ushering in an event called "The Rapture" that went for my mind, but possibly quitting porn cold turkey might have gone for me too.

    I am still in recovery from psychosis and the sad part is, when I was really ill with depression in the aftermath of it, I was actually free from PMO for 2 months but my brain deceived me. The aftermath of my psychotic episode blunted my emotions so I couldn't have fun or anything. I went back to PMO because I just wanted to "feel" something again and before I knew it, the addiction Kickstarted itself.
     
  9. lfcmatty

    lfcmatty Fapstronaut

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    omg!!!

    I am having serious mental issues since quitting, it’s been driving me mad that no one seems be having the same issues on here, and then I see these posts.

    I have tried to quit many times and this issue has actually caused me to go back to porn.

    I am 12 days in and it is really bad. My main symptoms are:
    - very low, I’d say I was depressed.
    - paranoia.
    - no interest in anything at all.
    - zero interest in talking to anyone.
    - happy to just escape to bed all the time.
    - easily annoyed by people.

    how long will this last for? It’s unbearable
     
    Mr.Lee92 likes this.
  10. lfcmatty

    lfcmatty Fapstronaut

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    I am just about holding things together right now in the hope I can just ride it out
     
    Mr.Lee92 likes this.
  11. Unfortunately, I cannot say how long it will last for. I have not had a streak of even over 10 days since 2020. Your 12 day streak is higher than mine. But I understand the paranoia, lack of interest in things and the desire to go to bed because I have had them all, and in times where I did hold a small streak, these issues persisted.

    Sorry I can't be much help, I'd love to say I've got over 30 days PMO free down pat, but I am still yet to achieve that. What I can say is, the negative issues lack of interest in things, etc never ever have gone away with my porn use. It's not the antidote.

    I'd say fight through it, continue your streak and eventually your brain will adapt and the issues will lessen because porn definitely is never the answer.
     
    lfcmatty likes this.
  12. How would that even work? One would have to be abnormally high on PCP or be possessed by the Devil Incarnate in order to accompolish that.
     
  13. Cramer

    Cramer Fapstronaut

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    I have no trouble doing that as long as my back is not too stiff like when getting out of bed. I am fairly skinny, and my lower back is very flexible. You might think of that as being the greatest gift of all, just like being able to have sex when ever you want; but think twice, by how many men struggle with basic masturbation, think about how difficult it would be to resist performing autofelatio so often, to the highest level of intensity, that is where I am. From a counselor I went to for help, it helps to try to stop in a gradual sequence. Addictions gradually become more intense, and the best way to overcome them is to work backwards not too quickly. I'm thinking the psychosis you guys are experiencing is coming from your minds extremely high craving for sexual pleasure that came from PMO. If you try to gradually reduce your weekly dose of PMO I have a feeling it would not be as rough on your mind.
     
  14. OhWhenThe

    OhWhenThe Fapstronaut

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    I don't know where you've been looking but this is all extremely common, it's just withdrawal symptoms/flatline. Probably 30% of rebooters deal with this. Generally, the stronger your addiction was the worse the symptoms will be when quitting.
     
  15. lfcmatty

    lfcmatty Fapstronaut

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    I’ve looked into it again this morning, you are right, it’s the flatline.

    I’ve been addicted for around 35 years, no wonder it is so bad.
     
    Buddhabro2.0 likes this.
  16. OhWhenThe

    OhWhenThe Fapstronaut

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    Yeah, I'm not going to lie and say it's not going to be difficult(it will be) but the flatline is just something you have to go through in order to recover. If you just relapse every time it hits then you're just kicking the can down the road as you're going to have to face it again anyway. There's no easy way around it, in some ways you can take it as a positive as you know your brain is doing something, it's when nothing is happening(good or bad) where you start to question what's going on.
     
  17. Wolf7

    Wolf7 Fapstronaut

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    Bro tried to suck his own dick get some bitches or hire an escort man that’s crazyyyy
     
  18. @Wolf7 My question is... How did that guy do it? That would either take a harcore intake of drugs or getting possessed by a variety of Demonic entities.
     
  19. Last Resort Report

    Last Resort Report Fapstronaut

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    It's actually funny that we consider masturbation by hand completely normal and masturbation by mouth extremely weird.
    But haven't most of us tried it once?

    But it is not excactly dangerous masturbation. That would be messing up with your breath or jerking off in your workplace or doing it in the Pool of Pablo Escobar ;)

    For those that has this issue: don't overdramatize, just quit it. But you should ask yourself the question why you do it.
     
  20. Cramer

    Cramer Fapstronaut

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    Autofelatio is only another form of masturbation. It is defined as being the most intense form of masturbation, but technically it isn't any more sinful than regular masturbation. As you do it more and more your body desires more intense physical pleasure to trigger orgasm and find satisfaction. It's easy to cause sexual exhaustion, and if you bring it too far it would take too much to find satisfaction during sexual iintercourse with your spouse.
     
    jw2021 likes this.

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