Feminism Poll

Discussion in 'Off-topic Discussion' started by Deleted Account, Aug 21, 2018.

Are you a feminist?

Poll closed Oct 10, 2018.
  1. Yes

    19.3%
  2. No

    80.7%
  1. Ratmancampidori

    Ratmancampidori Fapstronaut

    58
    59
    18
    I consider myself a feminist simply because I support gender equality.

    If you let the people you hate in a movement completly warp what a movement is, then your letting them win.

    I know Transgender and bisexual people who identify as feminists, while there are feminists that beleive Transgender people should be put to death and bisexual people have been brainwashed into sexual perversion.

    Like all political ideologies there are a million different brands of feminism, just like how everyone from Ronald Reagen to Justin Trudeau is a capitalist.

    The right thing to do is to support feminism if you support equality and oppose ANYONE who doesn’t. The feminists who don’t support equality don’t control the movement, so they shouldn’t be treated like they do.
     
    JoePineapples and Bonhomme like this.
  2. Actually the feminists that are controlling the movement now are not about equality. They are about female superiority. They are about hatred. They are about eliminating men.

    That’s why so many of us hate the modern feminist movement.

    The women I interact with on a daily basis are people I respect and they respect me. We treat each other as equals.

    The leaders of feminism today do not have my respect. They are arrogant woman that aren’t in touch with the reality of the masses.
     
  3. Bonhomme

    Bonhomme Fapstronaut

    THIS!

    Man, I'll quote the crap out of you whenever I find myself in a discussion about this - I was just about to write the exact same message, but I've never been able to put it into words like you just did.

    Respect.
     
  4. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    But I'm not the one "letting them" warp the movement. They are doing that all on their own. I'm simply observing it happening.

    That seems like very black and white thinking, to me. There are a ton of issues with modern feminism, not all of which are necessarily anti-equality. I think it's silly to ignore them and pretend they dont exist, or to act like anyone who doesnt call themselves a feminist is against women or doesnt qant equality. Theres a whole heck of a lot more to disagree with than just equality.

    I see that a lot. I also see, as I've mentioned previously, so called "feminists" nowadays doing tons of things that go against classic feminism and aren't related to men. Feminists judging women for wanting to be mothers, for example. And as the video i posted before very well-illustrates, there is a major attack on femininity in women, by feminists, which is completely anti-feminist. I think its very silly for people to pretend none of this is happening and simply quote the dictionary definition of feminism and act like that's still what feminism is about. Things change.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2018
  5. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    I suppose if we are living in a world in which actions dont matter and the only thing that matters is dictionary definitions, then sure, I'm a feminist. However, if that's the case, then I would argue that half the people out there who say they are feminists are not, because they dont truly believe in equality, which is the definition of feminism. That's far too black and white thinking and ignores reality, in my opinion.
     
  6. Thank you
     
  7. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    Pretty short video for the lazy folks, myself included:

     
    SolitaryScribe likes this.
  8. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    Actually, I take some of that back. Given that Roe v. Wade is such a large aspect of 2nd wave feminism, I cannot call myself a feminist. I will stick to saying g that I am a classic feminist, as I agree with everything presented in the first wave.
     
    hardowner and Deleted Account like this.
  9. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    This attitude would be like a Christian saying that if you're an atheist, you must be okay with murder. Because God says murder is wrong in the 10 Commandments, so if you dont fully accept everything the Bible says, then you must be okay with murder.

    Feminism, today, is about SO much more than just equality of the sexes. I believe in equality of the sexes, but I will not accept and embrace an entire movement of other crap because I agree with one of its points. And rejecting the movement, as a whole, does not mean that I reject that point as well. Just as atheists can reject the Bible and Christianity and still believe that murder and lying and theft, etc, are wrong.
     
    hardowner likes this.
  10. Buzz Lightyear

    Buzz Lightyear Fapstronaut

    2,739
    2,911
    143
    Keep in mind that equality is an empty mathematical abstraction. In concrete terms, a hundred different people will read a hundred different things into it. As a basis for cultural orientation, it is about the most disorientated idea you can begin with.

    The same idea applies to the abstraction of freedom. So in reality, you should begin with asking what you are free to do, or what you are free from.... etc. But people just want an ill-defined vacuous concept of 'freedom'. Because they remain unhappy/ unfulfilled, they look at political/ social circumstances as the cause for their unhappiness, or the lack of their 'freedom'. They will continue to wreck society because they are themselves wrecks. Nowhere in there model of the world is the idea that they might have to change themselves in order to cope with the real world.

    The problem with all ideology is that abstractions drive everything... not realities. In the political sphere [and cultural] this is disastrous. It continues to squander the cultural capital we've acquired over the generations. The inevitable reaction will not be pleasant.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2018
    hardowner likes this.
  11. Ratmancampidori

    Ratmancampidori Fapstronaut

    58
    59
    18
    Christians don’t have a monopoly on opposing murder, nearly every religion and philosophy does.

    However if someone worships god, beleives Jesus was the son of god and follows some variant of Biblical Testement then they are a Christian. This includes Catholics, Protestants, Coptics, Orthadox Christians, Mormons and plenty other obscure ones.

    For example I’m an Atheist, I don’t beleive in god or intelligent design. I aknowledge that Bill Maher and Richard Dawkins are also atheists. That doesn’t mean I support them, agree with their views on atheism or let them speak for me.

    I’m also a feminist, I beleive that woman and men should be equal in status and be treated based on their physical ability, personal skills and the content of theif characters. However when it comes to Radical and Marxist feminists I don’t support them, agree with their views or let them speak for me.

    Richard Dawkins doesn’t stop me from being an atheist so Andrea Dworkin won’t stop me from being a feminist.
     
  12. MLMVSS

    MLMVSS Fapstronaut

    568
    7,568
    123
    Calling myself a feminist because I support gender equality is like calling myself an Asian/Black supremacist because I support racial equality. It makes no sense.

    I prefer egalitarianism.
     
  13. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    Feminism doesnt have a monopoly on believing men and women should be treated equally, either. That's precisely my point.

    Cool. That's your right. Personally, I would not put a label on myself that so closely involves a lot of things I greatly disagree with, whether it's a religion or an ideology or a political party. That doesnt mean I dont think men and women should be treated equally because I dont call myself a feminist. That was my point. You can still agree with certain concepts that a group of people holds without labeling yourself as a part of that group. And refusing to take on the label of "feminist" doesnt mean that someone doesnt care about or agree with equality of the sexes.
     
  14. Ratmancampidori

    Ratmancampidori Fapstronaut

    58
    59
    18
    That last guy I know who called himself an egalitarian tried to rape a girl.

    Since that, the term has been spoiled for me ever since.
     
  15. AngelofDarkness

    AngelofDarkness Fapstronaut

    189
    1,246
    123
    That was exactly the point I was trying to make. I mean, I am all for discussing how the meaning of the term feminism and fighting for women having equal rights has evolved over time, but just from a linguistic standpoint, and I hope this doesn't make me seem like a grammar Nazi, but how can one say they consider themselves a feminist, a supporter of female equality, if the word itself discriminates other gender/racial/age groups who are not treated as equals? I guess if I say I support female equality, it doesn't imply that I ONLY support female equality, but why create and use a word that only includes female equality in the first place? I hope there is some logic in my question.
     
    MLMVSS, Moon Shot and Gotham Outlaw like this.
  16. Ratmancampidori

    Ratmancampidori Fapstronaut

    58
    59
    18
    The reason why feminism is a term to be used is because it has a history stretching back over hundred years.

    Creating a shared history that can be used to organize and fall back on. That is a requirement for all movements, groups identifying themselves with eachother is how they organize.

    Look at Liberalism for instance, it has a history going back to the French Revolution or Communism where it dates back to Karl Marx. These groups identifying as Liberals or Communists allow them to form a common identity to acheive their goals.

    Imagine for instance if enviromentalists were largely seen as terrorists, with no one will to identify as an enviromentalist. Instead they identify themselves as ‘Eco-Concious’ people who don’t identify as enviromentalists now have no position in soceities cultural memory and are nearly completly incapable of getting action down.

    I’d be interested if anyone here can name a prominent egalitarian off the top of their head.
     
    Deleted Account and kropo82 like this.
  17. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    I sincerely hope this is sarcasm.... because you just told me that I shouldnt let "a few bad people" ruin and define feminism for me, even though I'm not referring to a few people, but hundreds of people. And now you're allowing literally one person to ruin and define egalitarianism for you. Either this is sarcasm, or it's incredibly hypocritical.

    I dont really have much of an issue with that, given the origin of the term. Back when feminism was first created, there were a lot of ways in which women were not being treated as well as men. So in order to achieve equality, the goal was to raise women up to men's level. It was completely focused on women, because there was no need to focus on men, because women were the ones in a lower position. It would be like saying that you're fighting for racial equality hundreds of years ago and only focusing on black rights and the abolition of slavery. That would make sense.

    But it doesnt make sense anymore, the term feminism. Because in my opinion, in the western world, women and men are equal now. Sure, women still have problems and have to deal with misogyny in a lot of ways, but men also have problems and have to deal with misandry. It's hard to compare apples and oranges and say which one has it worse, but I dont see the point in doing that anyway. I think its fair to say we both have problems, but neither gender is oppressed on a grand scale anymore. At least not in general, in the western world. There are certain communities in which that isn't true, but that's a different story.

    Good example. I feel about the same about liberalism as feminism. I agree with the classics, but the movement has changed and I no longer agree with what they, in general, believe and fight for.

    Why do we need labels to get action done? I went to a march a few months ago to protest what was happening at the border, with families being separated. I would venture to guess most people there were liberals, and before the march they did a lot of talking on the microphone about a variety of liberal ideas that me and my mother did not agree with. But we still came to fight for the thing we did agree with. So... what did labels accomplish? Absolutely nothing. In fact, I would say that labels might have even caused a lot of conservative people who didnt agree with the border situation to NOT come fight for it, because they wouldnt want to be seen as a liberal.

    Idk, personally I dont agree with the notion that we need labels and an established group to get stuff done. If anything, I think the feminist label is hurting the movement, because people hear something that sounds "feminist-y" and they turn their ears off, because of his much they disagree with the movement as a whole. Even if they agree with the thing being discussed in the moment, they wont listen or help because they hate "feminists." And in my personal experience, by not taking on the label of feminist and by being more open minded, I've had a lot of good mind-changing conversations with people that I dont think a self-proclaimed feminist could have had, because of their label. I think they're living in a bit of an echo chamber, and anyone outside of that isn't going to want to listen to them, just like a lot of people dont want to listen to "liberals" even if they're talking about an issue they agree with.
     
    MLMVSS, Moon Shot, hardowner and 2 others like this.
  18. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    To be clear, I'm not saying this is right or good. I think that's a stupid way to live and you should be more open minded than that. But it is reality right now, so I dont see how more labels and established movements that have evolved and changed so much over the years are helping that much.
     
    MLMVSS likes this.
  19. I think I would explain my "no" answer by saying that feminism is a form of sexism. It singles out and raises up a particular gender, at the expense of another. It is one of the "isms" that seeks revenge on the "straight white male". The "oppressed" just wanted to be the "oppressors" all along. Of course I believe that women should have equal opportunity for everything that men have opportunity for, as well as equal rights (this should all go without saying). I believe that there is an infinite amount of variation in individual men and women, with each bringing different skills and abilities to the table, and so the best person for each role, man or woman, should have that role. None of these beliefs makes me a feminist though.

    Why are so many more people on this thread saying "no" to feminism than "yes"? Is it really that surprising? You do have mostly men here. And these men have experienced a particularly male-oriented form of bondage: porn addiction. Porn preys on the male brain. So when all the (mostly) male porn addicts on here hear about how good men have it, how much power men have, etc., it doesn't jibe with their own experience of feeling powerless against this stupid little addiction. And from what I'm getting on here so far, the women on here seem to understand the same thing about how porn keeps men down. Anyways this all my interpretation
     
  20. Little Bo Peep

    Little Bo Peep Fapstronaut

    And I'd argue that men already have less rights than women as it is, I mean just look at that cesspool movement called "MeToo". While I won't deny there's corruption and such in industries like film making what they're doing is just straight up shite.

    They don't even need a shred of proof or evidence to back up any claim they choose to use, companies drop them quick and judges even back them up all while the guy has to either play along to end it quicker or fight which makes it worse for them.

    It truly has moved to them wanting to just replace men, I mean it's not hard to believe in today's age with everything going on. While both genders have their issues, I do pity men and feel for them more than I do for women.
     
    Deleted Account and hardowner like this.

Share This Page