Fight or surrender?

Are you referring to the 12 step group as the meet up, or is there another group?

Of course we know the first 3 of the 12 steps is about surrender and higher power, but generally I don't think people really try to think of how it all works. Why is it framed as higher or lower power in the first place? That implies power-over, and a paradigm of dominance where the higher wins even if it isn't by brute force. Where is the place of "changing the things we can" per the Serenity prayer and per the 12th tradition of principles before personality? Both are of course things in these programs.

Instead of only focusing on surrender, I think there's a lot of tangible things people can do practically by applying principles. If that was singular that would probably only mean the one principle of anonymity, but it's plural, so you figure it's all the various principles of the program.

Though it's not as grand as a religious experience, practicing principles IS something we can do if we rehearse and think a little more deeply about it. What most people refer to as a "fight" seems to be little more than resistance, and doesn't have any role for skill and planning. But if we look at something like martial arts or military strategy, there is even room for skill in the framework of conflict, but not as a fight in terms of a one on one instinctual bout of random punch throwing where it's just people getting worked up.

Hmm, that makes me wonder if there could be a Sun Tzu Art of War application for PMO/rebooting..

 

Yeah, unfortunately I think some do take it religiously - and it's like they don't even know what their "religion" says. I think of that scene in Fight Club where they just chant "... his name is Robert Paulson."

If someone really took the 12th tradition to heart all the way, they should be able to understand ANY belief system even if it's not theirs, just by understanding the way that set of principles work. But we know there are people in the recovery world that tries to do the opposite. They will try to turn the group into a church like focus. To be frank that's just not doing the work. And it seems it's not uncommon for people to just preach rather than practice, because maybe they just don't even understand it enough to truly practice it. Actually I kind of feel like relationship based ones like say CoDA have a little protection from that just by the fact that it's going to have to address boundaries to some extent, and certainly with codependency if you understand the first thing about it you don't go there.

 

First off that guy was wrong and needs to review the first step of that program. It also sounds like he wanted you to quit and not to attend another meeting of that 12 Step Program. I visited a 12 Step Program when someone in my family had their anniversary of not using and noticed that the first step of the 12 Program was to admit that you had a problem and to noticed that you have lost control. From there you are suppose to start the fight back from the addiction. You don't want the addiction to control you when you are seeking help. Cause if you refuse the 1st Step of that 12 Step Program you will remain an addict and cannot move forward.

That's also another reason why some people change locations of their 12 Step Meetings to avoid people like that guy. The other thing that I learned from the beginning of that meeting is to create a small support group within the over all 12 Step Program and to have a sponsor who was there before you and can help you change.