Finally Moving Forward ~Rachie's Journal

Discussion in 'Significant Other Journals' started by Rachie, Dec 8, 2017.

  1. Rachie

    Rachie Fapstronaut

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    WS is 90 days into his reboot today. It's crazy to me. This is the longest he's ever gone without PMO. For me, it's been the worst, longest, craziest, most stressful, best 90 days of my life.

    I was telling someone the other day, it's been hard, but before WS stopped PMO, my life felt impossible. I had to go through everything alone. I felt like I was completely by myself. Now, even though this has been really freaking hard, WS is here. He's actually with me, for the first time in our marriage. I haven't had to go through this experience by myself.

    I've also had you guys. WS and I say all the time, that we couldn't have made it this far without NoFap and the friends we've made on here. I have learned so much from the SO's and beginning to understand the PA's perspective has prevented some serious arguments.;)
    Major shout-out to Serenity for all of the advice, commiseration, and support, and to WS's Bros, y'all have been a massive help in his recovery. Some days, it's been the difference between him moving forward or closing up and retreating.

    Anyway, today, im just feeling really grateful. This has seriously been the greatest, awful 90 days evero_O:)
     
  2. phuck-porn!

    phuck-porn! Fapstronaut

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    **lets out major smiling sigh**
    so nice to read this @Rachie. so really nice. very happy for you.

    love to read good things on NF.
     
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  3. DemonSemen

    DemonSemen Fapstronaut

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    Amen. Progress is awesome. Glad we can all provide help.
     
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  4. Yay! Congrats to you both! Hope your celebrating tonight ;)
     
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  5. Rachie

    Rachie Fapstronaut

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    WS is having all these saws and notices, lately, when we go out anywhere. He can't understand why I'm not in the mood for sex...isnt it self-explanatory?

    I don't feel like getting naked for you when you can't keep you eyes in your head. It hurts. The notices are like a stab to the chest. I'm obviously not doing it for him. He says I'm beautiful but he's still making me compete with every other girl in the world.

    So no, I don't want sex. I've got to protect myself some way. I can't be vulnerable like that. It's too scary and it hurts too much.
     
  6. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    We used to have a rule... Actually we still have it... But used to use it more...
    Anytime my SO had anything higher than a Saw and no sex that night.
    Any lying and no sex. (omission is lying)
    Because I didn't want to be the Chaser for his dopamine drops either.
     
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  7. Queen_Of_Hearts_13

    Queen_Of_Hearts_13 Fapstronaut

    @Rachie I totally get it! I actually talked with Jak about a lot over the past week, and told him some similar things, so he would understand. Not about ogling, but about other things that might cause me to not want to be intimate. Once I explained it Jak was like, "Ohhh, I get that" but it took direct communication for him to understand.

    I second what @Kenzi said, maybe set some ground rules because it's true no one wants to be the chser for the dopamine drip. Plus that's not what healthy sexual intimacy is. It should be about two people wanting to be together without outside factors like ogling making the person want to be intimate with you. They should be in the mood simply because you are in the room and looking at you makes them want to be close to you. That's a real turn on when that happens.
     
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  8. Rachie

    Rachie Fapstronaut

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    We have that rule too. He says the rule is an excuse to punish him. He's afraid that we'll never have sex again. He tells me that it's hard for him to be honest when he knows it means no sex.

    When he says this stuff, it makes me shut down more. It makes me want him even less. I've tried to explain to him that it's not a punishment. I've tried to tell him that in order for me to continue in this relationship, I need complete honesty.

    He just complains that I'm not giving him what he wants. That attitude was the same one he had when he was justifying the massive amounts of P he was consuming. He told himself that I wasn't catering to his needs, so the P was necessary.

    How can he not see that his attitude, and actions are the same? If I don't give him sex, he's hateful, spiteful, and closes himself off from me. He said the other night, "it's hard for me right now, I feel like I should touch you, but I know I'm not going to get anything out of it."

    I thought this part was over. I thought that he wanted to kiss and hug me because he loves me now. I didn't know it's just because I was having sex with him more often.
     
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  9. He SHOULD NOT have said this...the mentality of "not going to get anything out of it" is wrong. Period. There should be times where he wants to kiss and hug you and that is all he expects / all he wants.

    ..

    When you said this:
    I don't think it has to be one extreme or the other. I think there is such a think as a 'sex drive' .. something inside of us is driven towards sex / wants sex / etc. That is healthy and good. When a man wants to kiss and hug his SO, I think he can love her AND want to have sex with her at the same time.

    The issue is what he if wants sex and she doesn't .. or more open/known: what if he broke a rule that day and knows that sex is off the table? In the latter case (which is what I think you are referring to), he should not transfer his "punishment" onto his SO by not wanting to touch his wife at all! That is the perfect opportunity to serve his wife and go into those close moments with his SO knowing it's going to just be kissing/hugging/holding---there IS no question of 'will we be intimate..yes or no?'

    Any frustration that he feels..he needs to redirect that into doing better the next day. (I know, I know: easier said than done)
     
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  10. Rachie

    Rachie Fapstronaut

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    When WS is mad or upset with me, physical touch is the first thing he takes away. During PMO, we would go weeks where the only time he touched me was when I was asleep. Even now, after being intimate, he'll forget to touch me for a couple of days. I always know when it's been a while since we had sex because he'll start kissing and hugging me more.

    I don't mind that he does that. What hurts is when he forgets to touch me because he's been sexually satisfied and he doesn't need/want anything. It's devastating when he takes it away from me because he's mad. He uses it as a weapon.
     
  11. Queen_Of_Hearts_13

    Queen_Of_Hearts_13 Fapstronaut

    I am so sorry, but shit. Wow, I would feel like crap if that were happening in my relationship. I know that for Jak and I we know that if he doesn't do recovery work we separate. And for now, we haven't had PIV sex since 3 months ago because I've been too scared of the pain and ever getting pregnant again. We both want it but are okay with it off the table for now. We do other things.

    It shouldn't all be about sex. If you set a boundary of if he oogles/stares/notice/saw, whatever, and if that happens no sex, that should be respected. Hell, when Jak oogles cars in front of me it's an automatic turn off emotionally and I don't want to be close to him after that, and hell if he oogled a girl I would just get up and leave that's how hurt I'd be.

    So you have every right to say no sex on the table during this period where oogling is happening. It's not a punishment because you are taking care of yourself and protecting yourself.

    Jak took a long time to decipher punishment from consequence, we actually talked about that in couples therapy a couple weeks ago. He wasn't getting the idea of consequences. Consequences are naturally occuring actions that take place after a prior action happens. I.e. He oogles, I get turned off and want nothing to do with him so I take some space that day. First action (oogles) causes turn off(needing some space). That is a natural consequence.

    Actions have consequences, I keep telling Jak that. Every action and decision has a ripple effect. Jak liked the analogy of if he wouldn't do it or say it with me standing next to him, then he shouldn't do it. If he does do or say that, then he knows there will be a natural consequence to those choices.


    I am sad WillSquirrel is dealing with the selfish impulses it seems. Jak until maybe a couple weeks ago was insanely selfish (aside from the bedroom). Jak is starting to learn to think about others around him, what are they feeling, what are they needing, how can he help etc.

    Does WS ever think of those things? Does he offer to help around the house? Does he ask you what you might need emotionally that day? These are small ways to build selflessness. Also, maybe WS should do his own journaling surrounding this idea that sex should be given when he wants it, and when he doesn't get it he throws an "adult" temper tantrum (no touching you) by throwing the consequence back on you.

    For me and Jak, our sex life has had quite the roller coaster ride. I always was higher drive and was the one getting rejected. I never got hateful or spiteful, but rather depressed. I felt unattractive, and so I stopped initiating. Jak and I still have conversations about this topic as life and drives shift. Have you and WS talked about how sex is about not just physical pleasure but emotional safety too? Because I am sure you and WS both want each other, but it seems he isn't getting the fact you want to be the one and only and it's not a turn on or it doesn't feel as safe/special when he has been having notices/saws that day and then he comes home wanting some.

    And what is wrong with just kisses and cuddles? I told Jak that until I felt more emotionally safe that I would want kisses and cuddles, and if I wanted more I'd take lead, but to not expect that until there is more emotional safety. Honestly, kisses and cuddles are the best when sex is off the table. I rather have those even if sex was on the table sometimes. The passionate kissing and caressing is much nicer in moments where there isn't time for sex, or just factors are not allowing sex at that moment in time. Being able to touch in small ways really can go a long way, and maybe WS doesn't see that?

    I hope things get better and WS can understand why you don't want sex on those days.
     
  12. Rachie

    Rachie Fapstronaut

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    In six years, I told WS "no" twice. I didn't want that to ever be an excuse he could use against me. I wanted to be that wife who was always willing. (it didn't actually make a difference, he still used it as an excuse to PMO)

    This is new to him. He's never been confronted with "no." I usually feel guilty and give in. It's only recently that I've started standing my ground and refused to have sex when I didn't want to or when he broke a boundary.


    WS has always been really good about helping out around the house. Since stopping PMO, he's starting to become an active father instead of just passively passing through. He does try to engage me in conversations when he can tell that I'm emotional or upset about something.

    When he first started his recovery, he would touch me nonstop. It was like he had finally woken up and realized that he had a wife and wanted to touch me. As time has passed, he's reverted back. He touches me when he wants something.


    We have talked about it and I thought he understood. As I'm answering your questions, though, I'm starting to realize that none of this has been tested until now. Even since D-day, and even though we've had the boundaries, I've always given in. I've let him break the boundaries and not made him follow through with the consequences. (Though I feel like I shouldn't have to mother him and make sure he's being accountable)

    I hope all this made sense. I'm trying to work all this out as I go along.:confused:
     
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  13. Queen_Of_Hearts_13

    Queen_Of_Hearts_13 Fapstronaut

    I relate to this very much! In the beginning when Jak and I met I had sex with him 2-3 times a day for months straight. I figured guys want girls who always want sex, and Jak seemed game in the beginning before things started coming out. Only since DDay have I said not in the mood. Given my sexual trauma's Jak has always been respectful about stopping during sex if I had a flashback (and when we first met there were a lot of stop and starts from my own flashbacks to Jak not being able to stay hard through sex). But I never wanted Jak to ever feel sexually unpleased. I "always" was in the mood, I wanted Jak to know he had a woman who loved him, wanted him, and was amazing in bed so he wouldn't feel the need to go somewhere else. But again, PMO is never about us, it's about the addict.

    That's interesting. It was the opposite for us. After DDAy we had hysterical bonding sex, not real sex, and aside from that I wanted space, Jak didn't give it, but he wasn't really all over me. There was distance. These days Jak is clinging all over me, cuddles, touches, non stop! I wonder why that happens to addicts, whether they are very touchy or withdraw their affection....


    Yeah, I would cave with boundaries too. When I met Jak I was honest, upfront, and told him my boundaries (it was something I'd never been able to do and was so proud of myself). I thought Jak was respecting them, he seemed very happy I was able to tell him my needs, boundaries, and such. But After DDay and during the mini ddays I started to realize no matter what boundary I asked for he would not respect it, and so little by little, my voice that was once so strong and confident, started to shrink and shrink until I barely whispered. It's funny because when Jak gets upset at me I physically pull into myself and shrink and Jak always says, "No, please, don't shrink, speak" lol. Part of me recovering is finding my voice again.
     
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  14. SAME!

    And SAME!!
     
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  15. Rachie

    Rachie Fapstronaut

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    If we survive this trip back home, it'll be a miracle. I don't know if I've ever been so scared. I have so many questions and fears swirling around in my head.

    WS says he wants us to get closer before we go, but so far, we're just moving farther apart. I feel like this trip is coming at the worst time. I understand his reasons for wanting to go back, but I don't know if he's in a place to handle everything that he might be confronted with.

    I can feel myself shutting down and putting up walls. I'm afraid of what's coming. I know he's going to need me and I'll need to be there for him but I don't know how to stay open emotionally while protecting myself from pain.
     
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  16. Rachie

    Rachie Fapstronaut

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    So it wasn't the worst trip, and it sure as heck wasn't the best. We arrived Friday evening, picked up the rental car, and went straight to our hotel. We had to see the grandparents briefly, but WS made it clear that everyone was tired and ready for bed.

    Saturday, we woke up and got donuts from around the corner. It was, in my opinion, the best part of the trip. WS, the kids, and I, had so much fun. We laughed and talked and tried to eat everything that we had picked out.:p

    After breakfast, we met WS's family at the zoo. Everyone was really awkward and weird, even weirder than they normally are. His grandma was teary the whole day, (well, the whole trip, really) and his grandpa creepily hovered and took a massive amount of pictures. WS's mom, stepdad, and siblings seemed to try to get over the awkwardness but it was just so weird.

    Our three-year-old had an accident around 1:00 so we had to take him back to the hotel. After a couple of hours of relaxing, we met up with some friends for ice-cream. We hadn't seen them in two years so it was nice to catch up.

    We had dinner with his family on Saturday night. By the evening, our kids were way overtired and super crazy. It was a very stressful meal. Grandpa was at it again with the picture taking and every time he took a picture, our oldest would act like the flash was physically painful. Grandpa didn't get the hint, and kept taking pictures, while my son screamed. Our one year old thought it was a fun game and joined in halfway through the meal.:eek:

    Sunday, we had breakfast at the hotel with WS's mom, stepdad, and siblings. It was ok. The awkwardness was starting to wear off a little. After breakfast, we drove around the town and looked at some old hangouts of ours and chicken in with some old family friends.

    Lunch was a big family get together at WS's mom's house. It was emotionally, mentally, and physically draining. There were too many people there and it was exhausting trying to keep the kids away from the grandparents. Instead of keeping their distance, the grandparents kept pushing and trying to see how close they could get before we would say anything. We left as soon as we could.

    Sunday night we were ready to be home. We went to dinner with my cousin and went back to the hotel to crash and pack to leave. We both agreed that four days was way too long to be around his family. We weren't ready for that much contact with them.

    Monday morning was pretty disasterous. Everyone was in a bad mood and it felt like they had waited till the last moment to go nuts. WS's grandma was especially spiteful and hurtful, grandpa wouldn't stop trying to get close to the kids, and his mom pushed the boundaries to the limit. We left in a rush and don't want to go back for years, if we can help it.
     
  17. Rachie

    Rachie Fapstronaut

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    I'm thinking about something WS said to me yesterday. I had texted him with an idea that I had about doing something for one of the ladies in our church. Later, I mentioned that with this kind of thing, I tend to go overboard and might need to be reeled in. I said it in a joking manner, but the conversation quickly turned serious.

    He said, "I've never seen you like this before." It shocked me. I started thinking and I realized that he might be right. Soon after we got married, I found out about his porn use.

    I don't know how to put this, but before WS, I was a generous person. I was always looking to find ways to help others. I like people. My sister always joked that people liked her but she secretly hated them and I had a stern outward appearance, (resting b**ch face) but secretly loved people and was all mushy inside.

    I've changed. I don't trust people. I feel like they are always trying to take. I've stopped looking for reasons to do something for somebody. I have a very sour outlook. I didn't realize how much I have changed.

    Yesterday, I had so much fun. My brain was going crazy with a million ideas. I felt happy and useful. I felt like I used to feel. I can't believe that over the last six years, I've become an unhappy, bitter person that I don't recognize. WS said that he didn't remember the person I used to be. He apologized for playing a part in this downward transformation.

    I've been so focused on his journey that I didn't recognize how much I've also changed, and it seems it was for the worse. I need to get back to where I was. I need to find the joy for life that I used to have.
     
  18. Jagliana

    Jagliana Fapstronaut

    Yep, same for me, just double; 12 years of this downward transformation - until I finally put my foot down and told him: I'M DONE. That was his rock bottom moment.

    I want to find joy again, I've been so miserable for over a decade, it seems like it will never get better.
     
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  19. :(:( I am sure that my wife feels this same way. :(:(
     
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  20. Jagliana

    Jagliana Fapstronaut

    I think all of us S.O's feel this way. This whole experience is so mentally exhausting for us. :(:confused:
     
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