Financial report for 2015

Discussion in 'NoFap Technical Support and Feedback' started by SnowWhite, Jan 1, 2016.

  1. SnowWhite

    SnowWhite Fapstronaut

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    Fact: NoFap loses money every month and needs your support to stay online. Seriously.

    Dear @alexander,

    Thank you for creating this forum, I hope it will stay thoughout 2016 !

    Are you seriously thinking of shutting down NoFap?

    Did you ever think about transforming NoFap to a NPO ?

    In order for supporters to have a better understanding of the financial situation, would you please mind to give a balance sheet of 2015 here ? Something simple like that:

    Income:
    • donations
    • membership fees
    • Ads

    Expenses:
    • All fees for running the server and forum
    • Your time invested * your hourly rate

    Thank you in advance !
     
  2. Alexander

    Alexander Website Admin
    Staff Member

    @SnowWhite.

    Are you seriously thinking of shutting down NoFap?

    To be honest, yes. But hopefully that won't be necessary. But we'll see. It isn't even so much of a "financial" thing, but a "it is kind of negatively impacting my life in many ways" thing. It dominates my time due to how much labor is involved just keeping the boat afloat. Don't even get to "develop" the site much because of all of the recurring tasks and fires that need put out constantly. NoFap needs to grow and become profitable so that I can get some help, otherwise it just isn't energetically sustainable. I can only sacrifice so many years of my life before growing bitter ;)

    Volunteers come and go. Most flake out. The mods team is awesome, but for all of the other stuff associated with running one of the largest porn-recovery platforms on the internet, you need hired help. And why shouldn't people get paid for their time? Other sites that are much smaller in traffic have budgets and staff. I have to field mostly everything myself which has been significantly impacting my health and well-being.

    Did you ever think about transforming NoFap to a NPO ?

    Yes, explored it heavily. But I think the cons outweigh the pros, at least for now. It isn't an easy endeavor, and I don't see how being a non-religious NPO can be successful limited to this field. I've examined several non-religious NPOs in the field and it isn't easy. I think that charitable LLCs are a great. Might do another NPO someday that is closely related to support this (funnel money in, if that's legal), but again don't know if it can be successful. This is coming from talking with the top experts in this industry.
    .
    Simply changing the structure of a company (which even costs a ton of time and some money) won't fix the underlying issues. Money won't fall out of the sky. Most people either a) don't care or b) don't want anything related to quitting porn on their credit card statement.

    In order for supporters to have a better understanding of the financial situation, would you please mind to give a balance sheet of 2015 here ?

    A bookkeeper is currently putting together that documentation, so we don't have a full financial picture for 2015, but it isn't looking good from just examining some basics. Ads brought in about 1200 total so far since NoFap's birth. Donations come about once per month for very small amounts, like recently we got a 2 dollar donation. Sometimes we get bigger contributions, but it is very rare. Membership fees, we don't have many members and every $10 hardly dents expenses and you really need bulk to cover costs. I don't have any hourly rate, I make nothing. Almost breaking even financially finally (after 4+ years) on recurring expenses, I think December we lost only 200 or something out of my pocket, but still it needs to make a profit in order for it to be energetically sustainable. Overall I think the site has to be at least 20 grand in the hole (out of my pocket). It needs a small staff or at least the ability to delegate to contractors to handle stuff. Hope that this makes sense.
     
  3. Alexander

    Alexander Website Admin
    Staff Member

    An example of a brand-new expense is Bench.co. Other accountants quoted more than them for bookkeeping NoFap and getting finances in order, so they were the cheapest option. Then need to find another accountant for end-of-year NoFap tax filing, which will easily cost another 500-1000. So that is well over $2.5k per year just for bookkeeping which is already over TWICE our total we bring in for advertising ;). Actually, cost us 100s of dollars to even gather up the expenses and get organized, which we're still working on. Bench quoted $2385 to get us caught up on the books. Trying to get it cheaper through another bookkeeper I found on UpWork.com but again still costs 100s. We have expenses I paid out-of-pocket to record going all the way back to when NoFap was founded in 2011.

    Of course many people would say "oh just do it yourself!" or "find a volunteer" without considering the man behind the computer screen, how much time that would take, and how unlikely it would be that the work would actually get done properly. I feel like people think I have unlimited time or no other obligations, which is how I've spent all waking hours on NoFap for years. Really, it is my own fault, and I shouldn't have self-sacrificed so much to get to this point. But at least now I realize that something needs to change. Point is, NoFap needs a budget for these numerous expenses that are associated with running the site.

    Accounting. Bookkeeping. Legal fees (unfortunately). Software licenses. Software subscriptions. Web development (sometimes, out of my pocket). Mitigation whenever we get DDOSed. CloudFlare. Hootsuite. Xero. Front App. Google Apps for Work. App Store fees. Hosting for Emergency Button. Hosting for forum frontend. Hosting for forum backend. Hosting for other things like the War. Even paying somebody out of pocket because I was just too overworked and needed somebody to help field emails and do some writing, as we participate in university research and many other things.

    Only to dream of being able to contract out stuff to make my life easier would be a dream. Maybe someday.

    You would hope with over 40k people on here, we would be able to get 1% to subscribe, but in reality our number is around 0.29% of the users ever paying for a service here to help offset the costs. People who do sign up often cancel shortly after anyway after relapsing or deciding to leave NoFap behind.

    Hopefully the accountability groups will be awesome enough that people will want to hop aboard. The key is providing a valuable service that people want to pay for. Addicts are hard people to sell to, so we have to appeal to utility and service over "keep the site alive." As long as the site is online, most people don't bother to consider who is carrying the time and financial commitments.

    tl;dr - Running something like this is super expensive. Porn addicts are cheap.
     
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  4. Dizzy Lotus

    Dizzy Lotus Fapstronaut

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    Shoot. Meanwhile, the porn industry is thriving... [​IMG]
     
  5. Kurapika95

    Kurapika95 Distinguished Fapstronaut

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    @alexander
    Is there a way i can subscribe without a credit card?
    I can afford 10 or 20 dollars a month but I don't have a credit card and I really want to help.
     
  6. Alexander

    Alexander Website Admin
    Staff Member

    Just send a letter to our PO box, listed here, with your username in it. Say something like "for Premium" and well-concealed cash or a check, etc. Thanks!
     
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  7. A.ARN

    A.ARN Fapstronaut

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    @alexander did you thought of crowdfunding campaign?
     
  8. Alexander

    Alexander Website Admin
    Staff Member

    Launching one soon. But that's a one-time thing for an app. We have so many recurring expenses that we need sustainability for the long-term.
     
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  9. A.ARN

    A.ARN Fapstronaut

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    @alexander don't know what to say or how to generate funds but I believe that god will lead you to a way soon.
     
    Deadlihood likes this.
  10. Cubicpolynomial3

    Cubicpolynomial3 New Fapstronaut

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    Thank you so much for starting this site. Your initiatives across the board have helped me tremendously, and have boosted thousands of other lives.
     
    Dizzy Lotus likes this.
  11. BrainPlasticity

    BrainPlasticity Fapstronaut

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    @alexander have you tried outsourcing, like using companies in India such as getfriday.com? or fiver.com (You can use it for recruting contractors)?
    http://fourhourworkweek.com/4-hour-workweek-tools/

    Btw when I filled out your survey I had suggested several things to help you make NoFap better and for it to generate more revenue, were you able to take a look at it?
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2016
  12. Alexander

    Alexander Website Admin
    Staff Member

    Yeah, 100% have tried those. Found them useful for some things, awful for other things. They can add up in expense and the work is pretty sloppy when it has to do with English communication, which the bulk of the NoFap tasks are. Definitely use Fiverr for any graphic work and little stuff that you can get on Fiverr.

    We have so many responses to the survey. Still working through them, and they are generally anonymous unless if you said who you are in the answers. If you ever have any other ideas, please feel free to send them over to our email account. Thank you for your time.
     
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  13. KingGray

    KingGray Fapstronaut

    @alexander I fully understand your situation. I'm an entrepreneur and have started a few relatively successful startups. People have come to expect too much for free. You provide something of value and people will pay if it's their only option.

    I assume that NoFap.com is free because you want to help as many people as possible. It's much better to charge and help those that are willing top pay, vs shutting down and helping no-one.

    You'll have to force people to pay. People will bitch about it, but they will pay. I'd structure pricing at $3/mo charged annually with a 7 day trail (CC collected up front).

    Given the scale of the problem, and your contribution to it, there's no way that this shouldn't be able to support you and at least a couple of full-time staffers.

    I'm sure you have people to bounce ideas off of - but I'm here if you ever want to chat.
     
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  14. BrainPlasticity

    BrainPlasticity Fapstronaut

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    It's best to hire someone from India because of low labour costs. There are many tech savvy english speakers there, especially in Bangalore which is the technology center in India. The VA's are usually not that smart or highly educated, I'd suggest you use these virtual assistants to recruit top talents from Bangalore (those who have worked for Indian tech companies like Whpro, Infosys etc), or you could create job postings for the Bangalore Job market.

    I've mentioned my username and my email address on the survey. Just sent you an email regarding some of my ideas for revenue generation. Let me know your thoughts :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2016
    Aexander likes this.
  15. KingGray

    KingGray Fapstronaut

    @BrainPlasticity I've outsourced to India for years (as well as Sri Lanka, Philippines, and Singapore). In my experience, it works better for larger companies than for smaller ones.

    India has a ton of very smart people, but they typically end up working for top tier companies. The little guys like NoFap.com end up with the leftovers; the second tier talent (Sloppy work, poor English, etc). A lot of tasks are harder to outsource than it initially seems. My experience...feel free to disagree.

    Also, if NoFap.com is currently losing money hiring is a moot point. Cheap talent is still too expensive if there's no money to pay. The cashflow, or lack thereof, is the immediate issue that needs to be tackled.
     
  16. Chef Boy

    Chef Boy Fapstronaut

    Sorry to hear that it's proving a struggle and thank you for the tireless effort you put in.

    I don't want to have to say this but you're not going to get the financial or technical backing you require from the community here; regardless of what perks you offer or how you market the monthly subscriptions. The several previous attempts, and with it being human nature to free-ride, means it'll require decisive action on your part to get anywhere.

    Unless you threaten to close the boards with serious intent - as in "give me x amount of money by this date or it's gone...", you're not going to evoke the urgency that I'm sure you intend to. I'm in no real position to offer advise, and by all means shun it, but in my mind the reality of the situation is glaringly obvious.

    Good luck. It's sad to see that it's got to this point.
     
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  17. BrainPlasticity

    BrainPlasticity Fapstronaut

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    @KingGray you make a good point. I agree. Loyalty could be an issue with top talents. I'm wondering is there a way for NoFap.com's users to assist nofap's business activities in a secure open-sourced manner?

    @alexander just in case you did not receive my email, here are my
    Revenue Generation Ideas:

    1) Integrate NoFapWar with NoFap.com and charge signup fees. It's the best game created for beating PMO addiction.

    2) Create multiple membership levels based on membership fees to target multiple user's willingness to pay. I'd suggest 5 levels:
    Free, $2, $5, $10, and Custom (for example I'm already subscribed for a $4 monthly payment).
    Remove access to certain features that are free at the moment. I'd suggest that free users don't get access to success stories section; they're not allowed to create journals(but can view them and comment), they're not allowed to PM other users, not allowed to have a profile picture, and they're only allowed to create a limited amount of posts on the forum. Different membership levels should offers access to a different number of features.

    3) Create mini or limited edition digital products at http://store.nofap.com/
    Things such as a different color for your counter, a different design for your counter, Ability to apply skins on your journal/profile, a ranking system based on streaks (You can create a survey for other creative ideas from your users.). Also any new innovation you come up for NoFap should not be available for free.

    4) Create and gamify monthly challenges like the NoFapWar, and then offer exclusive free trials to things like Audible, Scribid, Headspace, BigThinkMentor and other services that are in the Self-Improvement space as rewards. (these companies should be paying you for sending them customers through NoFap.com). I guess you can also offer these free trials/coupons to those who reach a particular streak. It should be a reward for the winners.

    5) Use the power of the existing users. Create survey (or a forum section) to engage your existing users in coming up with business/revenue generation ideas and in solving business or technical problems for Nofap.com.

    6) We need to figure out a way for these users to work for NoFap.com for free like how www.threadless.com gets free designs for their T-Shirts.


    Let me know if these are feasible. I encourage all NoFap users to brainstorm and vet ideas with me here.
     
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  18. SnowWhite

    SnowWhite Fapstronaut

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    NoFapWar? Are you serious ? The world needs peace and a constructive manner, not fight & war & destruction.
     
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  19. Alexander

    Alexander Website Admin
    Staff Member

    It is something that already exists on war.nofap.com / reddit.com/r/NoFapWar. I definitely agree, but it seems to be a spin that many are benefiting from on NoFap's subreddit. It was community-run and NoFap just provides our trademark and servers.

    The point is, it wasn't their idea. NFW already exists.
     
    Dizzy Lotus likes this.
  20. Alexander

    Alexander Website Admin
    Staff Member

    To people in this thread: thanks for the empathy and thoughts, and for the others not in this thread who have been supportive. Running NoFap is not easy. Not even only talking about the finances and workload, but that you get criticism from everybody constantly. Users are often demanding without consideration of workload or reality. Other site admins are demanding. The critics of the site and rebooting in general are often asshats. People physically mail me pornography, as well as to my family - whatever addresses they can find through internet sleuthing or whatever is dumped on chanboards. My emails get spammed with porn from anti-porn-addiction script kiddies. Many people consider me a pervert and loser for running a site like this, and it likely will likely block certain opportunities in the future. Etc etc. Anyway, thank you, as you are in the minority and really rely on this small #.

    Definitely opening my eyes to the situation more and need to be more business-like. My own desire to please people at my expense brought upon my downfall. Please always feel free to contact us directly: contact at nofap dot com, if you have any ideas or suggestions. All ears. Tell me what you would like to pay for, what can we do to make your life and reboot better and extract the most money from your pockets :)
     

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