Financial report for 2015

Discussion in 'NoFap Technical Support and Feedback' started by SnowWhite, Jan 1, 2016.

  1. KingGray

    KingGray Fapstronaut

    @BrainPlasticity I think those are all good ideas, but I feel they are overcomplicated and don't guarantee success. I believe there should be simple, mandatory, fee (in addition to a scholarship program for those who cannot afford it)
    1. A simple fee will practically guarantee a cashflow positive situation
    2. Paying for things makes people more committed, which benefits the community
    3. People who pay typically complain less than people who don't (strange but true)
    4. With a simple setup you can use something like Optimizely to A/B test pricing and messaging to optimize conversion. Optimization gets exponentially harder with more features/options/complexity
    Fuck em. You are a leader, not a slave.

    Wow. I'm sorry to hear that. You're on the front lines in the war against porn. This is an interesting story, and I'm sure the reporters who have covered NoFap would like to hear it. Speak out

    All of the great men who fight for real change face fierce opposition and criticism. For every door that is now closed to you I can guarantee you that two more have opened. This community is real, porn addiction is real, you are doing good work and with time this will be recognized.

    @alexander We need you man!
  2. MyNameIsX

    MyNameIsX Fapstronaut

    Shit, dude. Can I sponsor a beatdown for asshats that physically harass you and your family?

    Here, just take my money.
    KingGray likes this.
  3. SnowWhite

    SnowWhite Fapstronaut

    Dear @alexander,

    To be honest, above statement suddenly made me feel unsure and unsafe, and I thought "has it sense at all to continue my journal?".

    Suddenly I feel the same good old hesitating and doubting which so often lead me to PMO relapses.... :confused:

    Please take this as a feedback for your own personal development!
    Of course this is my own problem to work on, but you see how easy it is for a leader to make people feel either safe or unsafe!

    So Alexander, how about taking this as the next challenge in your life ?
    Please try to be a true leader, firmly sitting in the saddle, leading your people to success !

    And if you ever think about leaving this site, please try to find someone who will take over.
    There is for sure a reasonable solution to keep at least the forums alive.
  4. It isn't like the website would vanish overnight. Everybody would have ample opportunity to export their data and plenty of warning.

    And I think that honesty is a great quality in leadership that should be used more often. Being honest, the platform just might not be sustainable. It is that simple. I could try to frame it more positively, but people need to reality what the situation is so that they can provide the most relevant feedback. I made it clear that I expect everything to be okay and will do everything within my power to make this work, but also making it clear that things need to drastically change quickly. I think that we will be able to get into the black and we're working very hard to change things around.

    And yes, I am very well aware that I am not the best leader in the world. I was thrown into all of this. I was just another person who happened to masturbate to porn more than most people, making me uniquely qualified to help people with this issue. You're right, I could have been more stoic and positive, but after so long of an unsustainable lifestyle, I am currently not at my strongest point in life.
  5. KingGray

    KingGray Fapstronaut

    @SnowWhite Alexander is one of us. If the news of's issues caused you stress, just imagine what it's like to be in Alexander's shoes.

    I assume you meant nothing but good, and even thought it wasn't directed at me I find this insulting. If the stability of the site causes you such worry please consider contributing your money or your time to the cause.
    theGECK and Dizzy Lotus like this.
  6. SnowWhite

    SnowWhite Fapstronaut

    It was only meant to be supportive and "nurturing". I gave my honest feedback to @alexander.

    And I saw on myself the effect that doubting/hesitating has on me. It's in fact a typical PMO root pattern for me. Of course that is a personal issue which I have to work on myself.
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2016
    KingGray likes this.
  7. JegErFransk

    JegErFransk Fapstronaut

    Unfortunately, running a website like NoFap is not so much different from running a business... You are currently trying to help as many persons as possible, young addicts needing particular attention. So far, NoFap has been extremely successful in doing so... but what you need is a market. Students are broke, you won't receive any money from them!

    It was my case when I registered already several years ago... I am just now considering giving money as I am finally expecting to finish my studies in a few months... Few will come back several years after registering to pay for website they don't visit any-more.

    Just have a look at the journals: most of the users are under 24years old (=broke students). What I am going to say might be horrible but you have to give up part of the users of NoFap to focus on the solvable ones (I don't think they are the one playing this "NoFapWar" for instance).

    The NGO WWF does the same: Its logo is a Panda because they are cute and people will easily pay for it. They are wasting money to protect species it's already to late to save... so that they have enough money to finance the other more useful activities!

    Try to make a list of your "products": Which are the one dedicated to the solvable users? What are the one attracting richer users? You are an entrepreneur, not only a community manager/Developper!

    That being said, I know how hard it can be for someone like you to give up on helping part of the addicts... but it might be necessary.

    In the meantime, I would like to really thank you for your amazing work! I don't pretend to have an easy solution, you've been working hard already.
    And I totally disagree with what you said: Your NoFap management experience won't block any opportunity in your future life! As an employer I would happily recruit somebody as dedicated as you are with a experience in running a whole community! Plus, would you really like to work for somebody discriminating you for running this website?

    I hope this will help!
    All the best,
    KingGray and BrainPlasticity like this.
  8. The best leaders don't ask for authority, but have authority thrust upon them. :)
  9. Cyrus the Virus

    Cyrus the Virus Fapstronaut

    I'm sure this has been discussed, but have you considered requiring a sign-up fee for access to the forums rather than just donations. I fully realize that requiring people to pay would cause many to leave due to lack of money or fear of "NoFap" appearing on credit card statements. But this seems like a dire situation.
    NoBrainer and Deleted Account like this.
  10. Dajic

    Dajic Guest

    This is a great idea. Another forum that I'm a member of charges 50 dollar to access the 'elite' subforums, and that is a non-recurring payment for life. The funny thing is that this creates much more of a community, because the 'elite' members often share information and tools only within the 'elite' forums where people like them are (in-group behaviour). Also interesting to note is that those 'elite' members are much more active than non-paying members. So they not only pay to get access and read in those special 'elite' forum areas, they are also spending more time and effort in helping others (including non-elite). That, in turns, creates on that forum a much greater sense of community.

    I think such a non-recurring payment may get more traction, because as already mentioned in this thread, people signup but quit not long after. Furthermore, a one-time fee to access certain forums is also cheaply to implement, and much less time consuming than managing a special accountability group or the chat.

    Another very important feature of such an 'elite' section is that it reduces the amount of people active in those 'elite' subforums. And that's a good thing, I think. Let me explain. I suppose that a lot of people visit occasionally, just like I do. But each time I get a little bit 'overwhelmed' because there are so many new threads and posts. I don't feel like reading all of that.

    And that's not a problem, since I don't need to know everything. But a drawback of that is that there might be no strong sense of community for people who don't visit here every day. I've been a member for over a month here now, and there are 3 to 5 forum names that I actually remembered. That's because each time I visit, there's so much new content from so many new (different) names that it feels more like a busy street or market than a community or close group.

    So what the benefit of an 'elite' section also is, is that people also recognise much more other people (due to the lower activity). Because if person X then makes a new thread in the 'elite' section, then it's easier to recognise and recall this person and his background because last week he/she also made a thread in 'elite'. But if person X makes the same thread in any other forum, it's 'buried' quickly under all the other threads. And persons like me (who visit 1-3 times per week), won't make the connection between this person's current thread and his/her other posts.

    So in that sense charging money for an 'elite' section might make the forum feel much more like a group of 'friends' instead of a busy street where everyone walks alongside each other.

    * * *

    Another suggestion is to make the upgrade page much more clearly. An excerpt from that page is (bold added):

    So what do I get when I upgrade? What are these additional tools and resources? If I scroll down I see this for the 10 dollar per month option:

    At that point it's still not clear to me what I get. It seems that people get flair under their username for 10 dollar per month? That sounds expensive if it's only that (I wonder how many people clicked away at that point).

    I also looked at the frontpage and there I also couldn't find what the benefits are of NoFap Premium. Luckily, I know from other threads on the forum that there is a special chat and accountability group, but the account upgrade page doesn't make that clear at all.

    This is true. I don't want to say that the current 'upgrades' page is wrong, but it's not written from a business perspective. Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticising the 'upgrades' page because clearly a lot of time and effort has been put into it. But if I look at it from a business standpoint, it's not clear what I get or what the benefit from paying is.

    * * *

    Another point is the following. I, for one, don't feel very strongly committed to this website forum. Sure, there is a lot of good work being done here and Alexander's work and effort is amazing. What I mean is that I feel like an occasional visitor; I do appreciate the forum, but don't see it as essential or very important. So if the forum stops, I would think 'too bad' and just move on -- it wouldn't affect me at all personally.

    So if I read the 'upgrades' page, it doesn't resonate with me. The 'upgrades' page primarily caters to the very very committed people here on the forum that want to pay money to help Alexander and NoFap. It literally says 'we need money' and 'help us'. But let's be honest, those people that pay now will pay no matter what perks are offered because those are the die-hard believers in NoFap.

    But there's a large group of people (including myself) that don't feel that emotionally connected to the forum (or to NoFap for that matter) to actually pay for its existence and further development.

    So before people like me pay 10 dollars per month or more, I want to know what I get. Not what the community gets, but what I get. And when I pay for a service (I see a recurring NoFap membership as a service), then it has to make my life easier. After all, nobody pays a business for something if it doesn't help themselves in some way.

    And I'll honestly say that I don't know if the benefits of an 'upgraded' account make my PMO recovery easier. Since I'm located in Europe, your chat hours are probably in my evening or midnight (that's a guess since those chat hours haven't been communicated). A special accountability group is also an intangible benefit; I don't really know how that is different from the regular reboot logs. So more clarity on that front might also help.

    * * *

    Anyway, what I would be willing to pay for:

    - an ebook with recovery strategies (one time payment),
    - things that help me save time (like an ebook with information summarised, like tips, tricks, summaries) (one time payment),
    - coaching from a 'pro fapstronaut' that acts as my buddy in the sense that they reply every day to my journal just to check in and with which I can talk about struggles (this does not have to be Alexander btw). (recurring payment),
    - physical tools that can help me keep on track (like pre printed paper cards that I can write my goal on and can carry with me) (one time payment),
    - exercises that help me think more deeply about my PMO behaviour (see the Fortify book with its exercises in the end as an example) (one time payment),
    - Access to 'elite' subforums (like 'elite reboot logs', 'elite success stories', and 'elite general') (one-time fee).

    What I don't want to pay for:

    - A real-time chat that's nearly empty during European hours,
    - Something that uses Reddit (like Nofapwar) since I don't use Reddit and don't see the point of it,
    - Any things that involves real-time communication (like a consultation) because of time zone differences,
    - Something that invades my online privacy (like those counters that requires signing in with a Google account),
    - Physical items like t-shirts or arm braces (I, for one, don't feel proud being on NoFap so no way I'm going to wear such a thing :) ).

    There might be other things that I would be willing to pay for, but I don't know them now. However, it seems that NoFap might better monetize its current offerings now instead of spending too much money on new tools & apps, so I'm not sure if this is relevant.
    Yesodi and Dizzy Lotus like this.
  11. Drift

    Drift Fapstronaut

    I think the $3/month option is really good for a bare bones access, and more people will be willing to donate an extra $3 to sponsor someone who can't afford it. I saw this as a well promoted feature for that site that's called "the fight" or something. Some glitzy media movement with lots of merch. No where NEAR the level development on forums and support though.

    Also, having a $3 option might make support easier for our beloved community members living abroad. Some people might have different currency values and income levels than the American membership (or folks with stronger currencies). I really love how international this group is, so many good perspectives and support, anyhow, just a shout out on that point.

    Edited to add:

    The Academy initiative is great, but I felt like it was kind of falling into the looking glass.

    The interface (long page scroll) made it unclear that there were actually different programs happening that had different levels of services and information for different prices. I stopped scrolling at the upper third because I didn't realize there was more content below.

    Also, I thought signing up in January as a premium member enrolled me in the Academy, but now I'm not sure.

    That aspect is getting the kinks worked out I'm sure, but just saying it's not clear what is the Academy, what isn't the academy and what you've paid for and what you get with that.

    Also edited to add that I think Dajic's post has some useful business insights.
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2016
    Dizzy Lotus likes this.
  12. Drift

    Drift Fapstronaut

    I agree, and appreciate honesty that is considerate and forthcoming. I totally support this approach, it's what makes this a unique and sincere resource for so MANY people. Thank you for being so candid, but doing it in a thoughtful way Alex.

    Okay, so I think the quote on the leadership thing is kind of asking too much at times, and it goes back into questions of candidness and honesty and all of that.

    The fact is we need to be leaders in our own lives, and that as a member of a community we ALL have to take an involvement and responsibility in our actions and how they best nurture the community. Coming from a place that values participation, democratic principles, and the support of community/community work, any efforts that are prolonged,complicated, and that influence a lot of people require a lot of respect for everyone engaged in the effort and a lot of responsibility is one everyone that's a part of it.

    Alex, I value consensus (a really difficult thing to do) integrity and inclusion (even if I don't achieve this a lot). Thank you for working so hard to help others, and for offering us all a chance to help ourselves /each other through this forum and community.
  13. This breaks my heart! May God bless you with strength and perseverance and joy, @alexander. I have been so blessed by this community. I hope you know how much good you are doing and how many people's lives have been permanently transformed because of your hard work! It's very tough work and a very thankless job, but I'm grateful for you, sir. I pray for blessings in your life and an extra boost of passion for the work you're doing here!
    Dizzy Lotus likes this.
  14. buzzlightyear

    buzzlightyear Fapstronaut

    I have only read about blogs, that make a nice living on affiliate sales (amazon) and selling books. Find out what self-help books relate to Nofap that a lot of fapstronauts would buy anyway sooner or later and ask them purposely to buy it through this site to support you.

    I don't know how affilate sales work, I know you get a % on a specific product. I don't know if it's possible to get this % over all the products with one simple link. That would make everything extremely easy, if a fapstronaut plans on buying something the only thing they need to do is purchase something through the forums and you'll get your %

    This is something even graduated Nofappers could do. If someone plans on buying something they might aswell do it supporting Nofap.

    I haven't seen an "approved resources" section or something a like. You could try this and see if it works.

    I have no idea how many unique visitors Nofap generates, considering it has over 60 000 members must say something. Earn 1 buck from every book they purchase and you'll be able to hire someone.

    I also thought you could advertise, this will take more time to get done as the ads may not contain triggering content. There have to be ways to keep Nofap profitable/sustainable. I think you should do whatever you can to keep the site online and perhaps that the future will bring a less capitalistic way of sustaining Nofap. When the evidence regarding P becomes widely acknowledged and accepted.

    Until that happens and you will be provided commisions from governments. You got to try your best to make a buck, all I know is that's definitely possible for Nofap.

    Kind regards,
    FreedomIsHere likes this.
  15. Reading this is breaking my heart...

    I never thought that site which provide immense value like this struggle financially.
    Also the great work of @Alexander being ridicule by other people...
    My pray for you Alexander, and I will support the site by giving donation.

    However, I encounter a problem.
    I try to donate by paypal, but it automatically withdraw the money from my credit card instead of from my paypal balance.
    I receive money from my client and store it on paypal balance.
    While charging on my credit card will convert USD into my local currency (adding additional cost which is unnecessary)
    Is it possible to pay the donation by my paypal balance and not charge from my credit card?
    recon117 and Dizzy Lotus like this.

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