Gary Wilson says some people are permanently damaged

Got you man.... Same thing as well.

 

So how many months you ve been free of PMO now? Are you able today to maintain whenever you wish an erection and go more times? How have you dealt with your flatline?

 

Who is Gary Wilson?

 

Use Google? God damn..

 

I see a lot of negationism on this thread.

Use pure logic: if PMO is damaging and you go too far, you obviously can hurt yourself permanently. We are not supermen, our body is limited, we are limited. You cannot infringe unlimited damage to something limited and expect it to come out whole beyond the limit. WTF even Alexander and others ask for more research. Yes, research how far negation can go.

But that does not mean that you are damaged permanently. It does not mean "stop fighting." Everyone is responsible for their own actions. Speak the truth.

I know people permanently damaged from different addictions, their life destroyed. Damn, I damaged my foreskin permanently.

 

I used to think the same... right now i am on 2 months of NOFAP and believe me if you put me in the front of a porn movie i cant even get erect from it, but i know that our body has an incredible capacity of regeneration, all that differs is the time. If i fapped for 12 years and i am still a virgin and involved in a lot of fantasies, that doesnt mean that i will have ED forever. It means only that i will need a lot of time to recover. Having faith in yourself and in God is your only hope. I heard and saw people with terrible addictions too, but some of them also after 7-8-9 years of abstaining they started seeing a lot of improvements. It took them a lot of time but they are better today than they were.

 

This thread is not about your particular case. Nobody said that you are damaged permanently.

 

So Gary sent be an email back. We will be correspondenting more in the future.


"
Hi,

That is very surprising. I can't say why they didn't find lower D2's. As you said, it may involve D1's or opioid receptors, or the sensitivity of receptors, rather than density of the receptors. Or it could be dynorphin levels, etc.

Other studies on addictions have been mixed when it comes to D2 receptors - such as gambling and obesity (even drug addictions). Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I sent your email to one of the top neuroscientists in the world (who has done many studies on behavioral addictions), and he said the following (I was waiting on his answer before emailing you back):
I am not surprised – findings in gambling disorder (and obesity) and multiple SUDs are not clearly linked to D2/D3 receptor availability. Can read:



Potenza MN (2018) Searching for replicable dopamine-related findings in gambling disorder. Biol Psychiatry 83:984-986.


Nutt, D. J., Lingford-Hughes, A., Erritzoe, D., & Stokes, P. R. A. (2015). The dopamine theory of addiction: 40 years of highs and lows. Nature Reviews Neuroscience, 16, 305. doi:10.1038/nrn3939


Potenza MN (2013) How Central is Dopamine to Pathological Gambling or Gambling Disorder? Frontiers in Behavioral Neuroscience 7:206. (PMC3870289)

So, I really have no comment as of yet. However, every other neurological study on porn users or sex addicts has reported brain changes consistent with the addiction model. This page lists 53 neuroscience-based studies (MRI, fMRI, EEG, neuropsychological, hormonal). Eight of the 53 studies point towards desensitization or habituation in porn users/sex addicts: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8.


I just noticed that you posted on reboot nation the following:

Gary Wilson might be wrong about the whole D2 receptor downregulation/desensitization as well. So he could also be wrong about the "permanent" damage.

I wonder where you got the idea that I said porn addiction causes "permanent damage". I have never said that. In fact, YBOP has an FAQ where I say that I believe it doesn't cause permanent damage - Does porn addiction cause irreversible damage to the brain? Everything about YBOP is based on the fact that brains can heal.
Best,
gary
”

 

Nobody is damaged permanently , this is what i said. It all depends on your will of power and your faith. If you dont believe in the process, you will not recover and eventualy you will fall back in the addiction. This is my opinion regarding what you said about the ,,negationism on this thread". As long as it involves only things from your own body, it is repairable. It s not like in the drug cases , where we talk about toxic external substances that can damage your brain. You cannot damage the brain using your own neurotransmiters, you can only fuck them and make them respond differently but never damage them permanently. The only damage that can last permanently is the physical damage, destroying your blood vessels or because of the bad blood flow, but these can occur only in persons above a certain age. As long as we are in our twenties or thirties we can recover.

 

This is what Gary Wilson said about 'permanent' damage:

"Hi Peter,

When I gave that talk in Istanbul (it wasn't a TED talk). Not my best talk. I was trying to help the audience understand what a serious problem porn-induced sexual dysfunctions are becoming for today's porn users. In the decade since I first started monitoring self-help forums, recovery times have increased to a disturbing degree. The younger the age that people regularly start using porn, the more stubborn the conditioning. Even more disturbing, some of the men I know who have recovered sense that their sexual response to real partners may still not be what it would have been had they not detoured into porn. Of course, they will never know for sure.

Any type of deep conditioning can be difficult to reverse, or to reverse entirely. But it's not brain "damage". Our brains are built to retain "important" lessons. Think of the results of childhood trauma, for example. Some people will not succeed in overcoming its effects, even though brains are unquestionably plastic. In the case of some sexual conditioning, some people will have created such powerful pathways tied to screens that their sexual response to partners may never be what it would have been had they not deeply conditioned themselves to porn. Others simply won't do the work, or won't be consistent enough, to recondition their sexual response to real partners.

In short, I was referring to the possibility of collateral damage from the human experiment in youthful sexual conditioning with today's porn. Somehow this point was turned into the story that I claim the conditioning "is permanent." In short, in trying to sound the alarm for the benefit of young men worldwide, some of those same, anxiety-prone young men have taken out of context a remark I made to a specific audience of healthcare professionals, and become obsessed with it.

Just to clarify, I was not suggesting that withdrawal symptoms are permanent. By definition, withdrawal is temporary...even the PAWS variation.

No doubt there is more to be discovered about the mechanics of brain plasticity in addiction and sexual conditioning. One of my goals was to inspire other generations to ask better questions and gather better information. For too long, sexologists from my generation have assured us "porn addiction" is not real, and that sexual tastes are innate and immutable. Every day on the forums, forum members prove both statements to be false. If my work encourages brilliant young minds to do better research, I will be content.

Your hypotheses about the misery of withdrawal sound very promising, and some of those possibilities are mentioned in my book. I hope you will stay in this field and help encourage/produce sound research that helps elucidate the phenomena associated with internet porn conditioning. It's long overdue.

Keep me informed of what you learn.

Kind regards,
Gary"

 

It will be interesting to find out what periods of time gary is reffering to. I mean we all know that recovery last up to 2 years or maybe 3. Has he encountered longer periods than that? I am really curious about this fact.

Of course you will not be the same like when you started and in my opinion this is not only about porn. Even if you would have not been using porn and you only had real sex after 1000 sex rounds you would not be the same. You are not a teen anymore today... It s not even normal to feel the pleasure that you used to feel in your teen years and to feel horny all the time. The permanent desensitization is a normal thing that occurs also in people who had only sex without porn... But the pleasure is not everything in making love my friends. Dopamine after 20-30 years of life starts responding harder, but you got something else that can help you overcome the dopamine and that is the oxytocin, that responds to passion and love.

 

Thank you for writing this. I have used P for so long now I don't want to think of myself as permanently damaged because under the hurt person seeking escape, I feel I have a great deal to bring to another in a romantic relationship.

 

Hi everyone:


I find it important to figure out the answer to this because I found it.

Recently a user on another forum asked Gary a question about this topic. Gary replied:

Gary Said:

"When I gave that talk in Istanbul (it wasn't a TED talk). Not my best talk. I was trying to help the audience understand what a serious problem porn-induced sexual dysfunctions are becoming for today's porn users. In the decade since I first started monitoring self-help forums, recovery times have increased to a disturbing degree. The younger the age that people regularly start using porn, the more stubborn the conditioning. Even more disturbing, some of the men I know who have recovered sense that their sexual response to real partners may still not be what it would have been had they not detoured into porn. Of course, they will never know for sure.

Any type of deep conditioning can be difficult to reverse, or to reverse entirely. But it's not brain "damage". Our brains are built to retain "important" lessons. Think of the results of childhood trauma, for example. Some people will not succeed in overcoming its effects, even though brains are unquestionably plastic. In the case of some sexual conditioning, some people will have created such powerful pathways tied to screens that their sexual response to partners may never be what it would have been had they not deeply conditioned themselves to porn. Others simply won't do the work, or won't be consistent enough, to recondition their sexual response to real partners.

In short, I was referring to the possibility of collateral damage from the human experiment in youthful sexual conditioning with today's porn. Somehow this point was turned into the story that I claim the conditioning "is permanent." In short, in trying to sound the alarm for the benefit of young men worldwide, some of those same, anxiety-prone young men have taken out of context a remark I made to a specific audience of healthcare professionals, and become obsessed with it.

Just to clarify, I was not suggesting that withdrawal symptoms are permanent. By definition, withdrawal is temporary...even the PAWS variation.

No doubt there is more to be discovered about the mechanics of brain plasticity in addiction and sexual conditioning. One of my goals was to inspire other generations to ask better questions and gather better information. For too long, sexologists from my generation have assured us "porn addiction" is not real, and that sexual tastes are innate and immutable. Every day on the forums, forum members prove both statements to be false. If my work encourages brilliant young minds to do better research, I will be content.

Your hypotheses about the misery of withdrawal sound very promising, and some of those possibilities are mentioned in my book. I hope you will stay in this field and help encourage/produce sound research that helps elucidate the phenomena associated with internet porn conditioning. It's long overdue.

Keep me informed of what you learn".

Kind regards,
Gary"



END OF GARY'S COMMENT


I tried to put the link here but it seems that I am not allowed to do that.

For a confirmation of this visit this space: Your Brain Rebalanced.
Look here for Peter Groen's posts. I'm not lying. Please review for yourself and verify that I am telling the truth.



Greetings to all

 

Gary refers to the reviews he was conducting between 2013 and 2015.

It seems that he began to see posts where people spend more than two years without pornography and still feel that their sexual response is not ideal.

People who spend more than three years and still do not feel improvements is because generally during their restart they were having orgasms from sex or masturbation. That kind of stories may have been reviewed by Gary and realized that there are publications where people despite leaving pornography continue to feel on a constant flat line.

 

So, in other words, go through hard mode??

 

[QUOTE = "Depressed & Out, post: 2775020, member: 286065"] Entonces, en otras palabras, ¿pasar por el modo difícil ?? [/ QUOTE]
@drep

Exactly.

It seems to me that when you acquire the mindset of pure semen retention for quite a long period (a year and a half or two years in a row) men see good results.

Often times, in recovery stories where men continue with occasional masturbation or orgasmic sex they tend to delay their performance much more than those who decide to have absolute semen retention of at least 15, 18, or 20, or 24 months. It can be less, it can be more.

The publications that you see here, and in other forums where men confess to having more than two years without satisfactory results, almost all have something in common: They did not perform a hard mode restart. During their reboot they continued masturbating, or continued forced sex (even with drugs from ED). Very bad idea to really get good results over time.

You can use the easy mode (Not porn, but you can masturbate occasionally or have sex occasionally), but, your results will not be like those of a man who chooses the hard mode or the monk mode two years in a row.

After those two years in a row, they may begin to seek sexual intimacy with someone. At first just to gain sexual experience, then you can look for someone for a more stable relationship

(this is my very personal opinion based on many stories that I have read for quite some time).

 

I'm not so sure. I started rebooting in January 2017 but on softmode. In June and August I relapsed once. Following the August relapse. I did 2x 3 months hardmode and 1x 6 months hardmode. My results, over 3 years on, is still poor.

Just because 2017 was trial and error, it doesn't mean that subsequent hardmodes were doomed to fail, as, in effect, 2017 simply resembled my PMO days of intermittent PMO use. (albeit a lot less frequently).

I think for severe cases, like mine, you need a GF to reboot to. Ideally, if you're still in your early days of rebooting, no sex at the beginning. Having a real stimuli would clearly do much better than simply rebooting on you own.

 

What do you mean, his results have been poor after so long?

I just tell you the following: My first sexual relationships were a failure and at that time I was not addicted to pornography. The truth is that lack of experience was a factor to consider on my part.

When you start having sex with girls (I understand that you are still a virgin) you are going to fail several times. But after that, it will become much better and much better.

For me, personally you are ready. It's just a matter of getting a partner. Not necessarily a girlfriend. I never started my sex life with a girlfriend. My first encounters were always casual sex, even paid sex. But thanks to that I learned to have sex.

I am not encouraging you to do the same as me, but it is just a point of view about it, based on my life experience.

 

Why do you consider your results to be apparently poor? What do you mean by "poor"?

 

I can't get erect to thoughts like I used to be and I don't get a good feel hormone when I'm near girls.

And obviously my erection quality is poor; around 4 or 5 at most.