Get educated, get tools, and learn to love withdrawals

Discussion in 'Porn Addiction' started by William, Dec 16, 2013.

  1. Mattsfreedom

    Mattsfreedom Fapstronaut

    Thanks for the repost the first video is way better than the second video. I thought the second video could be a some what of a trigger for some. Great stuff thanks.
  2. Really informative stuff here. We can all stop with positive thoughts and surrounding ourselves with positive people.

    I'm keeping myself busy and keeping good company.

    Good Luck everyone!!!☺☺☺☺☺☺
  3. PMO Fighter

    PMO Fighter Fapstronaut

    Thanks a lot for this detailed explanation of our problem.
    I think porn is an addiction and it is hard to recover. I've been rebooting for twenty days, but my brain still asks for dopamine. Now everything is clear. I've been masturbating for 5-6 years, but if I manage to free my brain from this dopamine addiction, I believe I'll take "a new grip on life". So, let's make this effort, let's keep going this way and forget PMO once for all.
    Deleted Account likes this.
  4. You can do it - you are most probably at the turning point of the reboot - most people report that the cravings and the absolute lust madness seems to go after the first 30 days or so. Thereafter your cravings should flatline.

    Keep going !
    PMO Fighter likes this.
  5. A Batman

    A Batman Fapstronaut

    I want to know how to manage after a nocturnal emission. My willpower reduces, and I feel that I have PMOed.
    All the progress just reduces. How long must I keep in control after the nocturnal emission, after which things will get easier?
  6. Sunshiine

    Sunshiine New Fapstronaut

    Thank you a lot !! I can't recognize if I'm addicted or not because I watch porn as a normal guy would probably do. I usually PMO 3/4 times a week, but when I'd like to quit doing that it becomes hard even if I don't PMO 1/2 a day
  7. Mike999360

    Mike999360 New Fapstronaut

    I totally agree you ^^
    I say im going to control my self im controling it no matter what no matter how much pain it makes hahaha that wont stop me to keep my control on it thank you very much for helping us william ^^
  8. fiend92

    fiend92 Fapstronaut

    Thank You William.
  9. Gkm

    Gkm New Fapstronaut

    Thanks William, A lot to think about. I think the first thing I need to do is clarify my goals at this point.very helpful stuff.
  10. PMO Fighter

    PMO Fighter Fapstronaut

    Thanks! 30 days have passed and I feel I'm getting better :)
  11. lonercub

    lonercub Fapstronaut

    Awesome video. Really want to become part of the people who have succeeded in ridding themselves of this pestilence. Definitely motivates. Thanks for William for posting this link.
  12. Bluefire

    Bluefire Fapstronaut

    To me a porn free life is one of the greatest things I could accomplish. Wish me luck in getting there, and thanks for all your help.
  13. MeandmyPiano

    MeandmyPiano Fapstronaut

    Thanks man! This community is awesome! That video with Gabe really got me...
  14. ruBad

    ruBad Fapstronaut

    Nice one.. its totally inspiring and I got a lot more clarity on my core problem. Thanks for the detailed post.
  15. Hello everyone. Happy New Year to All.

    I am writing this post in response to a post by @ DancingShadows, found here

    as well as the comments there by @ SnowWhite and @ Everyghing999.

    I find the question, and the responses, quite interesting. I think everything we post here must be read and understood in the context that our understanding of the human brain ("our" being humanity) is still very primitive and early days. I also think that, due to our understanding of the human brain, still being so rudimentary, we have not developed a language sufficient to describe some of the concepts we throw around. For instance, @ Everything999, you make the distinction between "compulsive behavior" and "addiction." For you, those terms mean something, and for me, those terms mean something, but at this point in my journey, they mean essentially the same thing. Maybe, in another thousand years, our brain science will have figured it all out, and along the way, come up with words that more succinctly describe what we are talking about here.

    I do believe "porn addiction" exists, but I am uncertain we have developed the language to define a commonly shared definition.

    I think what Everything999 says about delta FosB to be quite accurate. I also think what @ SnowWhite says about learning a language to also be accurate and interesting. The thing about porn addiction, or compulsive hypersexual disorder using porn as a prompt for a dopamine high, is that it is a "learned" behavior. All of us, about 10-11 years of age, become fascinated with thoughts of sex. That eventually translates into being fascinated with the act of sex, which leads to actual sex, and, for many, reproduction, or, making babies. The scientific evidence I believe currently exists supports the conclusion that our brains evolved in that way as a means of encouraging reproduction of the species.

    It works quite well, and has, the evolutionists tell us, for about 137 million years, when the first proto-mammal existed, our ancient ancestor, who got into their head, literally into their brain, it felt exceptionally excellent to fuck a lot. That feeling lead, and still leads, directly to us, and other mammals, making babies.

    Then, about 20 years ago, we (humanity) invented a new toy, High Speed Internet Porn, HSIP. HSIP is what, directly, led to the addiction being possible. This is important. We, humanity, were susceptible to the addiction prior to HSIP, but, only after the invention of HSIP, did we have a means of exploiting that susceptibility. In fact, all addictions we suffer for are invented by us, in the sense we always were susceptible to them, but only later got around to inventing a way of exploiting that susceptibility to them.

    So, we start with human brains that become fascinated with sex at around 10-11. And now, for about the last 20 years, those human brains are also able to access HSIP. And so, from about 10-11, many of us (the species) have discovered, unconsciously, that we can ride a dopamine high via HSIP. Nothing generates sexual thoughts, or hypersexual thoughts, like HSIP, which has a lot to do with another, evolved, brain, sexual, response, the Coolidge Effect, which means not only are we getting a dopamine rush via. the sexual thoughts that HSIP allows, but, we are boosting that dopamine rush by searching for the never-before-experienced sexual thought, which, again thanks to HSIP, we can now search endlessly for because, for all practical purposes, HSIP is infinite; we never have to see the same image twice, and we get off on that, or, put another way, the neurotransmitter called “dopamine” rewards the search with a wonderful feeling that feels like liquid bliss.

    Everything999 talks about delta FosB, which is another part of the dopamine reward system. Translated, what he says is, and what is absolutely correct, is that once we, the species, experience that reward for a sexual thought--and, then, ultimately, the prolonged, powerful reward HSIP results in--delta FosB makes it impossible to forget it happened, and therefore makes us aware, constantly, that it can, always, happen again, any time we wish to pick up HSIP and use it again. Because of that, Everything999 suggests this creates a permanent brain change, and from there he questions whether the addiction can ever be cured, because, essential to being addicted, is always knowing, wanting, and craving a high which, once we experience it, we can never quit knowing it is possible, wanting it, and craving it.

    Everything999 is correct that, due to delta FosB, we can never forget how good it felt, or, literally, that using PMO and HSIP resulted in a powerful, profound, dopamine rush, that could be described as a permanent brain change, or, even, arguably, permanent brain damage.

    That said, I choose not to describe it as such because I believe in “brain plasticity,” meaning just as we learned to like it, we can learn not to. Understand that the addiction is Pavlovian. It is a learned brain reaction to a given stimulation. If the stimulation is removed, while the brain will miss the brain reaction, for a while, eventually, the brain will stop missing the reaction, at least not nearly as much as when the brain reaction is first removed. That is why we do the reboot. You will miss the dopamine reaction and delta FosB horribly in the reboot, and, like Everything999 says, due to delta FosB, you will never again, for the rest of your life, ever, be completely indifferent to HSIP, or the knowledge you can use it to cause this brain reaction. But, though aware of it, for the rest of your life, if you train your brain, teach it, learn, that you can live without it, the cravings seriously diminish over time. Many say after hard mode for 90 days. This is not to say that by day 90 you quit wanting it, but, rather, that by day 90 you may have successfully trained your brain to know it is not going to get it, to not want it so much, and to know you can live without it, rather, than when actively addicted, doubt you can live without it.

    One of the mental tricks of overcoming the addiction is accepting that, just as we learned to abuse HSIP to obtain a dopamine high via PMO, we can learn to live without it.

    The thing is, for millions of years prior to the invention of HSIP, we used our dopamine reward system to get a high. It did not just start happening with HSIP. HSIP altered how we do it, and make the behavior potentially addictive, but we have been using thoughts of sex to get that dopamine high since way before we exist in our current form. Many times that did not result in reproduction, and, eventually, we, and some other mammalian species, developed a capability that, also, is one reason the addiction is possible. We developed the capability of recreational sex, or, sex just for the fun of it, “just for the fun of it” being using sex to get a dopamine high. Also, we developed the ability to get the dopamine high through the first form of artificial sexual stimulation, MO. MO, alone, without HSIP, though feeling great, meaning resulting in a dopamine high, was not addictive. Why not? It is finite, meaning the monkey doing it can only think of a finite number of other monkeys, and, because a monkey walking through the woods, MOing, and thinking of another monkey, is lion food, so there were environmental blocks, and practical limitations, making the obtaining of a dopamine high impractical and even dangerous, until quite recently.

    The question was: does HSIP result in brain damage, or, does addiction to HSIP result in permanent brain damage?

    I personally do not believe so. I know for a fact that overcoming the slavery to the addiction is possible, and I, and many others here, have done that. But, owing to delta FosB, we also will carry with us, for the rest of our lives, the knowledge that HSIP can be used to obtain that dopamine high. In that sense, the brain is always changed when it comes to be aware that some activity, or thought, will result in a reward. But, just because you are a slave to it now, does not mean you have to be a slave to it forever.

    Thanks for allowing me to post. Though I will be free four years later this year, I still find thinking about the problem to be helpful in keeping me on the straight and narrow.

    Much love.

    Will I AM.
    A Batman and waterworld like this.
  16. tendency14

    tendency14 Fapstronaut

    that was really encouraging thanks
  17. i_wanna_get_better1

    i_wanna_get_better1 Fapstronaut

    I was asked to repost my one year success story post here. Enjoy.

    January 1, 2017.
    Today is my one year anniversary of being PMO free. I am 43 years old and have been addicted since I was a teenager. I had tried many times to get better but always found it too difficult to quit. I never understood why I failed despite trying so many different things. My wife knew I was watching porn but didn't know how bad it was because I shut her out. I had been shutting her out our entire 17 year marriage. A year ago my wife had had enough and threatened to move out and take our children and tell others why if I didn't change. That was my rock-bottom moment. That was also the night I quit cold-turkey.

    I promised to change but the promises of an addict are worthless. I didn't know how I was going to do it but I was determined to do better. I had the goal of being a better person, husband, and father. I had seen a therapist about my problem years ago and started using some of those exercises again. I restarted a personal paper journal and pour out all my negative thoughts and feelings. I wrote about how disgusted I felt about myself and that I was finally going to take responsibility for my life and not be so out of control.

    I had to finally tell the whole truth to my wife. It was not easy to break down the walls of secrecy I had built around myself. For the second time in my adult life I broke down and cried. She made an interesting observation that my asperger-like symptoms may have made my situation worse. It is much easier to deal with inanimate pictures than real life people. I never regretted telling my wife the truth. We talked a lot and we fought a lot. I discovered just how much I had hurt her over the years. I had to show that I was making changes before she was willing to pitch in and support me. I could have no greater cheerleader, counselor, or complement to help me get this far. Someday I hope to be able to repay her for all the patience and perseverance she showed me before I finally woke up from my porn coma.

    On Day 4 of my reboot I started to research this problem. For the first time I discovered that his is not just a bad habit, but an ADDICTION. That single truth put my whole life and why I failed so often into perspective. I also understood that I had been medicating myself with porn for decades.

    My detox period felt like going though hell. I was angry, irritable, an seething with raw emotions. I had no practical coping skills. I was angry at myself the most for allowing myself to get into this situation. I finally understood that it was going to take a lot of work to take accountability for my actions. For weeks I went through an emotional roller-coaster - highs and lows, normal to anger to depression, varying levels of worthlessness, questioning whether it was possible to succeed. I needed a few small successes to build on. Some people feel improvements in the first few days. I was miserable every day for months. I feared that I would never be able to be happy again. I was scared that I was too broken to ever get better.

    I discovered that the biggest enemy wasn't porn. It was myself - the addict version of myself. Addiction is a monster that will do anything to get what it wants. Sometimes it uses brute strength, sometimes it is subtle and deceptive. My addiction knew me better than I knew myself. It is an opponent that knows all of my strengths and weaknesses and knows just what to say to get past my defenses. The physical cravings are nothing compared to the mind games you play with yourself and last much, much longer. I had to get to know myself so that I could fight back more effectively. I had to continually analyze every thought, feeling, and motivation for everything I was doing. It was exhausting and tiring, but vigilance was necessary because it only takes one second of weakness to relapse.

    I managed to get though my detox period but still felt depressed and empty. It was a phase I wasn't prepared for and people didn't write much about it. I was starting to feel worried that I was never going to feel normal again. But another Fapstonaut explained to me what I was going through, that it was normal, and to keep going. Only another addict could have empathized. I started to have faith that the path I was traveling would eventually lead me to a better place. Time was needed for my brain to heal.

    I passed my 30 day anniversary, 60 day anniversary, and 180 day anniversary. Slowly the things I was trying were starting to be a part of me. I no longer felt like an actor pretending to be a normal human being. My wife was slowly starting to trust me again and our relationship was improving. I became an accountability partner to a few people and helped a few couples in the beginning stages of their recovery. I started to feel that I had something valuable to share. I no longer felt worthless and empty.

    So here I am on Day 365. Am I cured? Not by a long shot. Every day is still a struggle. I was an addict, and now I am merely an addict in recovery. I will always be an addict in recovery. I will always have to keep my guard up. My brain will not allow me to forget how porn made me feel. Every time I get stressed or anxious I get urges. The monster is in it's cage but I feel his arms reaching through the bars trying to get my attention.

    Here's what I'd like to pass on to others. (I don't have the time or space to thoroughly explain each point but I'll answer any questions).
    1. Identify ALL your physical, emotional, and environmental triggers.
    2. Write down a detailed abstinence recovery plan.
    3. Journal.
    4. Do not fight this alone, get others involved - a therapist, wife, girlfriend, accountability partner, parents, etc.
    5. Don't trust yourself to be alone with your electronic devices during your detox.
    6. Recognize when you are vulnerable and take drastic action to avoid a relapse.
    7. Stay out of 'the trance' or 'auto-pilot mode' at all costs.
    8. Challenge every excuse or justification to return to PMO.
    9. Educate yourself. Know yourself. Apply what you learn to yourself.
    10. Be willing to sacrifice ANYTHING for a better life.
    11. Be patient. It takes a long time to see progress. It takes time to reclaim your humanity.
    12. Be kind to yourself but do not tolerate failure. It is NOT impossible to quit.
    13. PMO leaves a huge void in you so find ways to substitute as much as possible such as a hobby or new interest.
    14. Keep using NoFap as an affirmation to stay clean. Pay what you learn forward.
    15. Be humble enough to seek professional help if you need it. It is not a weakness to ask for help.
    16. Reach out to others. The emotional satisfaction we get from others nourishes the soul and makes porn less appealing.
    17. Repair whatever damage you caused to others around you.
    18. Forgive yourself for the person you once were. Start living a new and improved life. You are now a person who is worthy of love.
    19. Our problem is an emotional problem. Find an anthem song that makes you feel better.
    20. It is okay to admit how much you loved how porn made you feel. Accept that nothing will make you feel the same way. And be content with living a calm, balanced life. It will make you feel happier.

    Here are my final thoughts. Addictions are a nasty thing. Our addiction is much tougher than others. It takes one second to feed our addition and throw away all the progress we made. Addiction invades every corner of our brain and corrupts it. It is not easy to break free from it. You have to look inside your heart and find a determination to fight back that is greater than the addiction itself. It boils down to this - JUST DO IT. It's easy to say, but it's hard to do. But it encompasses everything an addict in recovery must do to stay clean. I hope all of you can join me and share with us your one year anniversary story.
  18. RisingPhoenix

    RisingPhoenix Fapstronaut

    William this is indeed an incredible post! I wish it was pinned somewhere. You are truly correct about looking within ourselves and admitting that there is a problem, being the first step. For years, I have been simply telling myself I could control it. I would go 2-3 days without it and then go into an all out PMO binge for hours in the days to come. I then convinced myself that it was necessary to release as my body wakes me up ready anyway! Right? Wrong...
    I would use that as an excuse to get my fix. I've even tried minimizing my releases to 1-2 times a week. as something to look forward to for withdrawing for so long. But after I do what I have to, I feel so horrible after...I know my relationships suffered because I found it hard to be intimate, yet with myself there's no hesitation. I want to get married and have a family, so I have to break, sever, destroy this addiction so my future wife can have all of my sexual attention.
    I am also thankful for the links to insight regarding the effects of PMO on the brain. I really didnt think it was that serious, but i am truly grateful for being educated on the matter.
    I cannot say i look forward to the next 90 days, BUT I know at the end of it I WILL be a better man. I intend to begin working out and make more of an effort to do bible study. I just installed K9 plus enabled another plugin called Blocksite on my preferred browser. I know that in times of serious weakness, I would want to google search certain terms that would provide the release, but i will run here and fight those urges!
    To anyone getting started on this journey, know that once you realize that you have a problem and make the conscious decision to get help, healing can truly begin! To all the "Hard 90'ers" we got this! Let's overcome this!
    Dakota12 likes this.
  19. Fatsodubmo

    Fatsodubmo Fapstronaut

    Amazing post. I really needed to read something like this today. Thank you, congrats on the 365 and good luck in your future!
    i_wanna_get_better1 likes this.
  20. Niccolo23

    Niccolo23 Fapstronaut

    Hey! I'm almost two weeks into a 90 day reboot. Been Meditating + Natural Grounding (helps with porn addiction) and using all the extra energy to start working out again at the gym. Already I feel much more energized, motivated and confident socially with women! I feel like it's better to focus on something positive and constructive rather than focusing on trying to avoid PMO. So far so good. Any support along the way would be greatly appreciated and I'd love to support others on there journey as well! If you wish to start a 90 day challenge or are currently doing one make a post and share. I'm determined to do this and make the change into a better more fulfilling life not just with women but my health, wealth, goals and aspirations. Good luck everyone!!

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