Get educated, get tools, and learn to love withdrawals

Discussion in 'Porn Addiction' started by William, Dec 16, 2013.

  1. Dakota12

    Dakota12 Fapstronaut

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    Excellent stuff here WilliamOneAndDone! Thank you! I know for sure 100% where I stand and it is addicted to porn. I have told my family and myself so many times over the last 21 years that I will quit and I never have been able to do it.
     
  2. Hi. As always, thanks for the kind posts. The more we know, the more likely success is.

    Here is a link leading to a Gary Wilson interview that I found immensely interesting, and hope everyone will, as well:

    http://www.neilsattin.com/blog/2015/11/11-take-back-your-power-from-porn-with-gary-wilson/

    Here is another interesting link, posted by @bken on the brain damage post. These guys in Germany are playing catch up with Gary, but, at least, they are playing:

    https://www.mpib-berlin.mpg.de/en/media/2014/06/viewers-of-pornography-have-a-smaller-reward-system

    Much love.

    Billy the Kid.
     
  3. Dakota12

    Dakota12 Fapstronaut

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    Truer words could not be spoken. Healing can only begin when you realize that you have a problem.
     
    RisingPhoenix likes this.
  4. Demetri

    Demetri Fapstronaut

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    I'm in a program called celebrate recovery and I kind of look at like, if I don't stop I could die! I know its not the same but very scary to think what addiction can lead to. I used to drink a lot and I'm in recovery now, and I feel the like porn is a trigger to drink and go out to club or party to look for new women to hook up with! Leaving my wife or girlfriend behind for something new... A terrible cycle of destruction
     
  5. Vinek

    Vinek Fapstronaut

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    Hey guys , there are some great posts here. I read the first page all of it and the last one . I want to beat that problem and I'm starting right now just after my birthday. The posts are very informative and I agree , the first thing is to get knowledge ( and to keep looking for ) . Second thing is to talk about the challenge we are facing ( whether it's here on this forum or to a close friend or family member ).
    Then, finally Just do it . Easier said than done but hey it's possible as many guys here did it ! I have no idea how hard it's gonna be because everytime I couldn't resist anymore after a while and I'd go back. Sometimes because I was bored , sad , mad or even happy . My will is going to be challenged like it has never been but I have to face that battle. I'm going back to the gym and I'm going to find others hobbies to keep my mind busy .
    Thanks to all the members of this forum.
     
  6. Maceno

    Maceno New Fapstronaut

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    Thanks guys, I think the process is overwhelming and it will take time I'm sure. What is the best first step you recommend?
     
  7. Vinek

    Vinek Fapstronaut

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    Get the maximum of information
     
  8. Mychal

    Mychal New Fapstronaut

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    Hello, new guy here. Want to give a quick background. I am 29 and began looking at porn at 11. My addiction probably started when I was 12-13 but I never realized until I was 19. The past 2 years I have made major strides and I am currently at 98 days almost 99. I also have been married for 5 years (this Saturday), and yes my wife knows about my addiction. I also have an account on Rebootnation I post on as well. Anyway, I have a question. I have been trying to research the importance of sperm within the body and the harmful affects of prolonged masturbation. Does anybody know anything about this? As to whether frequent masturbation from a young age to my age (almost 20 years worth) has a detrimental effect on the brain and body? Or what problems it could possibly have? I have read that sperm is essential to joints and other parts of the body but I'm wondering what else there is and what effect sperm has on the brain and the overall importance and usage of sperm within the brain and body. One more thing, can anybody tell me what happens or what your body and brain are to experience during a 90-day hard mode reboot?
     
  9. Hi Mychal, I will respond both here and there as you posted both places.

    First of all, congratulations on the 99 days. Good work.

    As Gary Wilson ask, rhetorically, why would any porn loving guy give it up? The only answer is: because it has caused some problem in their lives. The physical problems of porn addiction are Porn Induced Erectile Dysfunction, and anorgasmia (inability to reach O unless with P (meaning not during sex), and, in really bad cases, not even with P).

    I personally consider the whole "sperm retention" issue a non issue. I have never heard that sperm effects any part of the body. It is a type of cell that serves a specific purpose, and as far as I know, that is the only purpose it serves. This is a horrible example, but, here goes: It is sort of like spit. You can spit all day long, but so long as you drink plenty of water, no harm, no foul. Same with not spitting. It is not like your body is going to retain spit and be effected by it.

    As Wilson says, the whole issue of porn addiction is, 100%, a brain issue. It is easy to get confused and make the mistake of believing the addiction has something to do with our sexuality, or physicality. That is, for most of us, there is an aspect of physically acting out during the addiction, as in engaging in PMO. But, in reality, all we really do when engaging the addiction, is use porn, like a button we push, to get a dopamine high. In that sense, we alter the brain, especially over time, when after we have hit that button so many times our brain alters to prefer P to reality. This also has to do with deltaFosB, meaning we alter our brains to love the powerful, prolonged dopamine rush we get from P (technically, from the hypersexual thoughts P causes us to have), and deltaFosB makes us remember we love it, for a long time.

    When quitting the addiction, we are actually re-training our brain to re-senstizied to reality, and, if done right, quit craving that non stop dopamine hit porn gives us. At the end of 90 days, which is not a magic number (could take some more time, could take some less time), we have weened ourselves off the dopamine train and we quit missing it. That is an alteration of brain reward pathways, more, or less, back to normal, if it is done right. Once the withdrawals withdraw, once you wake up and don't miss it, you have altered your brain back to a state that, though not quite pre-porn, pretty close to it.

    Just my thoughts. Hope it helps.

    Peace.

    Will I AM
     
  10. Gabe Deem just posted this video. I think the Gary Wilson video, The Great Porn Experiment, is, perhaps, the most important video ever created in order to understand the addiction.

    Gabe's video, here, is also IMPORTANT. Watch it and learn.



    This disease wants you stupid, ignorant, and in the dark. Wake up and Get Educated. Every time you learn more about how porn effects the brain, what the addiction hears you telling it is "fuck off." Tell the addiction to fuck off.

    Much love.

    Will I AM.
     
    waterworld likes this.
  11. skeptical

    skeptical Fapstronaut

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    William, may god bless you and your family
     
  12. Leslie, of The Big Bang Theory, explains the problem...

    Leslie: Listen, neither of us are neuroscientists, but we both understand the biochemistry of sex. I mean, dopamine in our brains is released across synapses, causing pleasure. You stick electrodes in a rat's brain, give him an orgasm button, he'll push that thing until he starves to death.

    Leonard: Well, who wouldn't?

    Leslie: Well, the only difference between us and the rat is that you can't stick an electrode in our hypothalamus. That's where you come in.
     
  13. lucaspalasios

    lucaspalasios New Fapstronaut

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    William, thanks for helping us [the newbies], it's comforting to know someone understand us and don't tell us "you're crazy, watching porn is a healthy way to help you express your sexuality". I'm looking forward to change my strategies with the support of the community.

    Got one question: If porn addiction is dopamine addiction, we'll need to find something to make up for the loss of dopamine from porn, right? Are any other healthy alternatives for dopamine?
     
  14. @lucaspalasios

    Hi. Thanks for the kind words. When I first, finally, faced the problem myself, there were not a lot of resources. The Wilson vid existed, but you had to look for it. Alexander Rhodes had started this place, recognizing there was a problem, but, like all of us, in the early days, not, totally, understanding it. Our knowledge of what is happening, the understanding, morality aside, that porn is unhealthy because it leads to dopamine addiction, is growing. That, by the way, in a nutshell, is the problem: porn leads to dopamine addiction. Let's be clear: we are talking High Speed Internet Porn, not our father's Playboy, but the ability to click, click, click, for hours a day, never see the same image, ever. That is the type of porn that leads to porn induced dopamine addiction.

    It is true that not everyone that watches porn becomes a dopamine addict. It is also true that A LOT of people who watch porn, do become dopamine addicts. Of course, almost all of us do so in ignorance, we unconsciously train our brains, over years, to prefer the profound, prolonged, dopamine high that porn can be used to produce, over reality. We do it, and we do not even know we are doing it to ourselves. A big part of overcoming the problem is becoming self aware, recognizing that that is the reason, and, really, is the only reason, we use porn: we use porn to get a dopamine high. Alpha and omega of the problem. This problem, by the way, is, now, so widespread, especially among late teenagers, that the United States military has asked Gary Wilson to help them study the problem. In the US there are hundreds of thousands of young people graduating high school and entering military service, as has happened for decades. But, recently, the military has noticed a significant problem. Something new and different, not seen before. Many of those inductees, going through basic, deprived of internet access, are exhibiting classic withdrawal symptoms; sweating, shakes, skin crawling, phantom pains, mental loss of focus, seemingly dazed and confused. It turns out there is a whole generation of people entering the military who, though they did not know it, had become, unconsciously, addicted to dopamine, with porn being the button they were pushing to get it, and when they go into basic, being deprived of the button, they begin to withdraw, even though they did not know they were addicted, and most did not know they could be. This is so profound a problem that the military is now taking time to study it. When I first began my journey to overcome the addiction, there was still debate about whether the addiction was real. Now, through the efforts and studies of people like Alexander Rhodes, Gary Wilson, Gabe Deem, Phil Zimbardo, and a lot others, it is accepted that porn, or rather, porn induced dopamine addiction, is a reality for many.

    Your question is one of the most important questions that can be asked. Every newbie asks the question. I asked the question, myself. I am going to answer the question directly and honestly, and it is an answer you probably will not like. I know I did not. The answer is NO. Part of overcoming dopamine addiction is learning to live with only "normal" dopamine highs, and normal dopamine highs are no where as high as porn induced dopamine highs. If dopamine is the drug you are addicted to, the answer is not finding an alternative means to obtain it, but, rather, learning to live without it, or, at least live with only normal levels of it. A dopamine high, by the way, is not "unhealthy", it is very, very healthy, but--and this is the trick--it is only very, very healthy in normal levels. Porn allows for an unnaturally high dopamine high, one many of us have learned to give ourselves multiple times a day, over years. At that level, the dopamine high becomes addictive, and the addiction causes problems in our lives.

    Perhaps the most important part of overcoming the addiction is learning to live without the powerful dopamine high we can give ourselves by watching porn. When we deprive ourselves of that high we have given ourselves for years, our brains revolt, and punishes us, which is to say we suffer withdrawals. I am sorry, but there is no easy way out of here, only a very difficult and painful way out. The good news is, there is a way out. That is the most important thing; there is a way out. The pain of quitting sucks, but, it does go away. Just as you wired your brain to love that dopamine rush, you can rewire it back to preporn levels. Many have.

    I hope this helps. Thanks for the post, and I will try and respond to that PM later.

    Much love.

    Will I AM.
     
  15. Mychal

    Mychal New Fapstronaut

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    Help, I am experiencing a relapse. I gave in the other day late last week and I just gave in again. Last week I PMO but tonight I watched it and almost PMO but turned the shit off. I'm fucking ruining it I went 106 days clean and I could and should still be going. Why can't I power through mentally I can't figure things out...I need some guidance. I always talk or think myself back into it. Remembering what I haven't seen in a while knowing it "feels good." It's not the porn I miss it's the feeling in my brain that is missed but me personally I don't miss it, it's like there's something else inside that makes me miss it or has me thinking I miss it. I just need some help.
     
  16. Hi @Mychal

    We, all, do miss it. Over time, we miss it less and less. Then come the days when we do not miss it at all. Quitting porn is an exercise, like teaching yourself to run a marathon. Day one, you might not make it a mile. Day 90, there is no doubt in your mind you can do it. It takes time, effort, patience, and pain is part of the process. To be alive is to love a dopamine high. The question is, are you in charge of you, or is the dopamine high you can obtain via High Speed Internet Porn in charge of you? The answer to the question, which is often difficult for us to accept, especially in the beginning, but which must be accepted as true, because it absolutely is true, is: You are ALWAYS in charge of yourself. Even when it feels like the addiction is in charge, it is not. When you choose to use porn to obtain a dopamine high, it is a choice you make, even if it does not feel like it. Using porn to obtain a dopamine high is not an autonomic response; it is not inevitable; it is unavoidable; it is something we, all, make a choice to do. You have to become conscious of the fact that when you do it, you are choosing to do it, because, unless you become conscious of that, you will not become conscious of the fact that you can choose NOT to.

    I am going to rip myself off and post a response I just posted to a PM. I think it answers the question you have asked.

    One of the hardest things I had to admit to myself was "I am addicted." Bad day, it sucked. But, before that, quitting, overcoming the addiction, was impossible. Until we recognize the problem, we cannot recognize the solution. There are only two paths ahead for an addict: quit, or keep using. Do, please, understand, you are in control, and so, when you use, you are making that choice to use. You choose to use to get a dopamine high. There is no judgment in that, but, that is, and only is, what you are doing. No one put a gun to your head to make you use, but, understand, you are using, you are deliberately using porn to get a dopamine high. Why? It feels good. Again, no judgment, but there it is. The thing about the hard 90 is, the concept is a bit misleading. The true purpose of the hard 90 is to desensitize to porn. In that sense, the hard 90 is training wheels, because, if you are, really, going to overcome your addiction, you have to quit using it, forever. That is a difficult thought for addicts, it is what I call "the impossible thought." The impossible thought is not, I am quitting for 90 days, because that implies that after 90, you can use again. You can't. The impossible thought is: I will never use again. Get past the 90, and you will start believing that. Also, past 90, you are in charge of you, not the addiction. It makes a big difference who is in charge. Don't beat yourself up about "relapsing", because you did not relapse. Relapse implies you got clean first, then went back; you have never gotten clean first, so, you are just one who is trying to use less, but are still using, and have not, really, committed to never using again. You have to commit to that before you have a chance to get clean, so, sit down with yourself, and have a conversation with yourself, and ask yourself, who do I want to be for the rest of my life? Do I want to be in charge of me, or do I want a porn induced dopamine high to be in charge of me? When your answer to that question is right, you will see the path you have to walk.

    Tick tock. Time to get clean.

    Peace.
     
    Username1021 likes this.
  17. mohan

    mohan Fapstronaut

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    Thank u for the good work... Really want this motivation to last for 90 days
     
    Busterf likes this.
  18. U R Welcome. Keep going. Porn is not an option. Found an interesting link. Thought it might be helpful.

    http://bigthink.com/going-mental/your-brain-on-drugs-dopamine-and-addiction

    Knowledge is power. Study your enemy so that you may defeat it. Once you understand what is going on in your brain, it becomes so much easier to overcome the problem. And the problem can, definitely, be overcome. Time to take off your chains.
     
    skeptical likes this.

  19. @stacey

    This is a great question. Actually, it is two questions, both of which are great.

    First the question about "healthy" PMO use. Let's take a quick history tour of "PMO". The term PMO, porn, masturbation, orgasm, has only been in use for, maybe 6 years. That is because High Speed Internet Porn, the only kind of "porn" that has been proven addictive, has only existed for, about, 15 years, and it took about 9 years for people to understand and accept it could be addictive. So, when you talk about "healthy PMO", since the concept of PMO itself is quite new, the concept of healthy PMO is even newer. Healthy PMO is not a concept that exists in our history, as in never before about 6 years ago. It developed in response to the question a lot of people started asking about 6 years ago, which went something like this: "This is fun, sitting in front of my computer a few times a day, watching porn, rubbing one off, orgasming, every day, for years, BUT is this healthy, and when I try to quit, why can't I quit?"

    So, understand, the question about healthy PMO, has only existed for about 6 years, because, only for about 6 years, has PMO been generally accepted as a concept or term, and only for about 6 years have we understood PMO could be an addictive habit.

    Also, let's understand what PMO actually is. PMO is using artificial sexual stimulation to produce a profound, prolonged, dopamine high that is higher than we can get via reality, aka, sex. In that sense, when we PMO we are abusing our brain's sexual reward center to spike the neurotransmitter, dopamine, and when it comes to dopamine, we likey. Can this be done in a healthy way? My opinion, no. It is unhealthy to abuse your brain; nothing good comes from it, and bad things can, and often do, come from it. To quote Gary Wilson of yourbrainonporn, why would any porn loving guy give it up? Answer: only because some negative consequences have come from it, meaning for most, sexual dysfunction, or negative social interaction issues with the people we are close to.

    This leads to question 2: does PMO inevitably lead to addiction? Answer: No, but it is more likely to if the abuser does not fully understand addiction is possible, meaning there are about a billion (that is right, billion, with a "b") porn consumers in the world who have been abusing porn to get a dopamine high, for 15 or so years, who, initially, and to a great extent, currently, are not armed with the knowledge that this seemingly harmless distraction can lead to an addiction. So, PMO once, we like, no addiction. PMO daily for years; quitting seems like an impossibility, and then the addiction has its hooks in us.

    This, by the way, is about as complicated as working out to achieve a look. Work out every days for years, and you get buff and cut. Same with PMO. Different result, but you get the idea. Use it often enough, over a prolonged period, and you have, for the most part unconsciously, trained your brain to prefer porn over reality to reach that dopamine high we love so much. The key to kicking the addiction is to consciously understand what you have been doing, and the mechanism which you have been using to do it, and consciously quit doing that so as to retrain your brain to prefer reality, again. Quitting porn addiction, which is actually porn induced dopamine addiction, is a chore. It is an exercise we have to do, every day, for many days, many say the hard 90. For an addict, quitting porn requires the individual to redefine themselves for the hard 90 as a person quitting porn, and, probably, in that time frame, requires quitting porn to become the most important thing in their lives. In the hard 90, when they get up in the morning, they have to be a person quitting porn, during the day, a person quitting porn, at night when going to bed, a person quitting porn, when they wake up at night with the sweats and shakes, they have to be a person quitting porn. It takes an addict years of training their brains, unconsciously, to become addicted. To consciously uncouple from porn takes, most say, at least the hard 90.

    If anyone has taken time to read this, chin up. This is William. My chains are off and are never going back on again. If you are actively addicted, I used to be where you are, in the darkness and despair. I am broadcasting to you. You can be free, you can take off those chains. Many have. It is possible. You have to think the impossible thought: I am quitting porn, forever, and I will never be its slave again. Just know it can be done.

    Much love.

    Will I AM.
     
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  20. I was not used to forums when I first started posting. They are kinda weird, a public posting of very personal information with total strangers, who, are, mostly, anonymous. But I have learned that quitting porn is an exercise, something that has to be done everyday, especially during the reboot. If you are posting here, many people are listening to you. Not everyone comments on what you write, but many see it, and many see themselves in what you write. Though we are all unique, the experience of getting addicted to porn, and then quitting the addiction, is, actually, very similar for all of us. We, unconsciously, train our brains to use porn--to use it--to get something we like quite a lot--a dopamine rush. In the beginning, when we are doing it, we do not know we are doing it, and we do not even "Kave the language to describe what we are doing; we just know it feels great. But, "knowledge is power". One of the first steps in beating the addiction, after the first step, which is owning the addiction, is understanding what we have all been doing. Again, we have been pushing the porn button to get a dopamine rush. It works like this: Push the porn button=hypersexual thoughts, hypersexual thoughts=dopamine rush, dopamine rush=momentary euphoria. There is nothing mysterious about this, this is evolved human sexual psychology. We have just learned to manipulate it, even if we did not know we were manipulating it.

    So we now know the what and the why.

    As for who you should tell, that is up to you, a personal choice. I, personally, am not a big fan of broadcasting the issue to the world around me for a very simple reason. I got hooked alone, and in private, and I had to kick it, alone, and in private. It helps to have a reason to quit, but I am not sure telling others makes quitting easier. It might, for you, but, for me, like becoming addicted, quitting the addiction was something I did alone. It was personal that way.

    So, people are listening. Broadcast. How do we help ourselves? For porn addicts this is especially true, do to the isolated, solitary, nature of the addiction: We help ourselves by helping others. Get out into the world, reconnect with it. It is cold, painful, and often messy out there. Out there you will find something that we do not like: it is unpredictable, and out of our control. Unlike the distraction of porn. You have to reconnect with reality, again. So, step out your front door, and go find someone you can help. This problem, your problem, will seem a bit smaller when you are helping someone else solve their problem, whatever that problem is. This is part of the process of quitting. Trust me, this will help.

    Much love.

    W.
     

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