God doesn't want us to masturbate

Discussion in 'Porn Addiction' started by JesusStrength, May 6, 2019.

  1. Ronila

    Ronila Fapstronaut

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    I agree with you, but this also means that we did not really bother about morality of masturbation for 99.99% of our existence and then all of a sudden it became against gods will.
    I also suppose animals are exuded from this rule because they masturbate, have a good time and seems to have no problems and have no clue god exists.
     
  2. Freedom_from_PMO

    Freedom_from_PMO Fapstronaut

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    Did we really thought about morality as a species for most of our existence? We lacked philosophical apparatus to do so. What is your point? We quite clearly operate on diffefent paradigms.
     
  3. aliasghar1378

    aliasghar1378 Fapstronaut

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    If you believe in god you must believe 100 percent. Science is not something static , they may say its 100 percent ok then after some research 10 years later they say opps we found it harmful , like some drugs after they must examine in a large group then sometimes they find out it was a bad drug and have bad effects, i mean physiologist update their information every year and every year thay categorize new disease that they had believed its ok,
    if you trust in God , trust him
     
  4. Freedom_from_PMO

    Freedom_from_PMO Fapstronaut

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    In 16th century alchemy, astrology and hermetic magic was totally legit science. I think even Newton did a lot of magic.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2019
  5. aliasghar1378

    aliasghar1378 Fapstronaut

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    And God never forbids Masturbation in a healthy sex relationship with your partner, it may be good for our body who knows? but do you think in our case is it good? i mean do you think its normal that we cant stop masturbating? is it normal?is it ok for our body to inject same dopamine as cocaine in our blood? is it normal that we fantasize with every women? Its called Addiction, God doesn't need to say its not good any wise and mutual human being can understand its harmful for body and soul
     
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  6. aliasghar1378

    aliasghar1378 Fapstronaut

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    We hadnt problem here in Middle East it was Golden Era for muslims scientists
     
  7. Freedom_from_PMO

    Freedom_from_PMO Fapstronaut

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    They were also doing this in Middle East, I am sure. 16th century was probably one of biggest steps forward in Europe and this is common knowledge. I said this to illustrate that in the past even in ages of great scientific progress there was a lot of science that we would today consider total rubbish.
     
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  8. aliasghar1378

    aliasghar1378 Fapstronaut

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    i think i misunderstood your words,
    i agree bro
     
  9. Ronila

    Ronila Fapstronaut

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    My point is do not bring morality where it does not belong, and do not bring God where such prescience is not needed.
    This topic is about what is right and what is wrong in relation to masturbation, it is an attempt to present a point of view - masturbation is wrong using God as an absolute - he said so and so it is.

    This notion of this is bad period, is not fit for modern age, we have the research no need to guess.
     
  10. Freedom_from_PMO

    Freedom_from_PMO Fapstronaut

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    This is probably not very popular opinion but - science, I mean hard science, is mostly useless when it comes to morality. It doesn't mean all morality must be theistic, ethics could have source in secular philosophies, but what I want to say is that ethics are matter of philisophy, not science.
     
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  11. Freedom_from_PMO

    Freedom_from_PMO Fapstronaut

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    I agree about science not being static, that is why I brought that.
     
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  12. onceaking

    onceaking Fapstronaut

    You're kind of right but you've also misunderstood what I was saying. The word for God in Genesis 1 is the Hebrew word elohim. Elohim isn't a name for a being but the name for many beings. It's like me saying a member of NoFap created a thread on NoFap. If I say that I'm not identifying a member, I'm just acknowledging a someone on NoFap created a post. The actual name for God is YHWH but God isn't God, God is a God called YHWH.

    As for the son being involved, you might be right but we can't know for sure. In fact, if you look in Genesis 6 you'll see it talks about there being sons of God. The trouble is the way the Bible hasn't been translated into English in a good way because they've made God out to be a being God isn't. Really the Bible doesn't present a picture of complete monotheism.

    If you're interested in exploring this issue Tim Mackie on his podcast The Bible Project goes into detail on this in his God series. God is far more complicated than we think. Saying God doesn't want us to be masturbating is a rather simplistic in my opinion. How much does YHWH actually care about us masturbating when YHWH is a war with other Gods?
     
  13. Ronila

    Ronila Fapstronaut

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    Ethics is a complex discipline on its own no dobt and it explores human sexuality at depth, people who study ethics and sexuality do not label masturbation as bad.
    At the very core ethics is about doing what is ethical and it is always in the context of a group(society), and ethical behavior is not necessarily an effective one, ie giving back wallet you found that has allot of money in it is not an effective behavior at face value, but it is an valuable behavior for the group and we humans do enjoy participating in ethical behaviors - they are rewarding.
    So ethics typically describes behaviors in terms of long term benefits for the group rather than short term benefits at face value, main consideration being coherence of the group but only in the context of a group. It allows the group to be more coherent.
    When it comes to an individual you can not apply ethics, is it ethical to eat? is it ethical to breathe? is it ethical to masturbate?
    Argument can be made that any of the above activities could negatively affect society, ie - eating too much food may leave less for others, breathing too much air does leave less for others, but we tend to say - those are the needs of the individual and they have to be met, so we do not apply ethics to those, unless there is no more food and we have to decide who eats and who does not, who breaths and who does not etc.

    Applying ethics to human needs is wrong, or should I say unethical
     
  14. Freedom_from_PMO

    Freedom_from_PMO Fapstronaut

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    In the very first sentence you classified modern secular ethics as objective. There are many ethical systems, objectivist ethics and marxist ethics are almost direct oppositions.

    Your ethics are utilitarian, they need to serve society. Next you believe that you can't apply ethics to individual needs. Why you take this things as axyoms? Both things would be false in e.g. virtue based ethics. Also are all needs justified? Outcome of what is ethical and what is not ethical heavy depends on the axyoms of whole ethical system.
     
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  15. Ronila

    Ronila Fapstronaut

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    I think it your burst of critique you forgot to tie it to what we are discussing in this thread.

    Ethics no matter the kind you choose still rely on reason or general consensus, so labeling something unethical - ie: "masturbation is unethical" has to have some foundation, that we can accept as reasonable. That is what I am waiting for.
     
  16. SuperFan

    SuperFan Fapstronaut

    Clearly you never read the Song of Solomon.

    And if porn is what taught you how to have sex ... well ... I don't even know what to say to that. Porn can teach you casual fucking, but it can't teach you how to have an intimate sexual relationship with a real human being.
     
  17. SuperFan

    SuperFan Fapstronaut

    I really don't understand where people get this idea. Christianity doesn't suppress sex. It simply gives it proper boundaries within which to flourish.

    The Bible wholly approves of sex, in and of itself. God created it, after all.

    From the great CS Lewis:

    "They tell you sex has become a mess because it was hushed up. But for the last twenty years it has not been. It has been chattered about all day long. Yet it is still in a mess. If hushing up had been the cause of the trouble, ventilation would have set it right. But it has not. I think it is the other way round. I think the human race originally hushed it up because it had become such a mess. Modern people are always saying, ‘Sex is nothing to be ashamed of.’ They may mean two things. They may mean `There is nothing to be ashamed of in the fact that the human race reproduces itself in a certain way, nor in the fact that it gives pleasure.’ If they mean that, they are right. Christianity says the same. It is not the thing, nor the pleasure, that is the trouble. The old Christian teachers said that if man had never fallen, sexual pleasure, instead of being less than it is now, would actually have been greater. I know some muddle-headed Christians have talked as if Christianity thought that sex, or the body, or pleasure, were bad in themselves. But they were wrong. Christianity is almost the only one of the great religions which thoroughly approves of the body – which believes that matter is good, that God Himself once took on a human body, that some kind of body is going to be given to us even in Heaven and is going to be an essential part of our happiness, our beauty, and our energy. Christianity has glorified marriage more than any other religion: and nearly all the greatest love poetry in the world has been produced by Christians. If anyone says that sex, in itself, is bad, Christianity contradicts him at once. But, of course, when people say, ‘Sex is nothing to be ashamed of,’ they may mean ‘the state into which the sexual instinct has now got is nothing to be ashamed of’.
    If they mean that, I think they are wrong. I think it is everything to be ashamed of. There is nothing to be ashamed of in enjoying your food: there would be everything to be ashamed of if half the world made food the main interest of their lives and spent their time looking at pictures of food and dribbling and smacking their lips.”

     
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  18. LynxTheCat

    LynxTheCat Fapstronaut

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    I think that any "god" has nothing to do with this. Nature made us that way, we are the same brain mechanics as the rest of species living on the earth. The thing is we can control it by conscious approach.
     
  19. ZenAF

    ZenAF Fapstronaut

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    Just read it now. Don't see your point.
    I didn't say that, did I. I said porn taught me a thing or two about sex. Because porn is tons of videos of other people having sex. And some of these people are skilled at having sex. And if you observe them you can learn.
    Proverbs 21:17 Whoever loves pleasure will be a poor man,
    2 Timothy 2:22 So flee youthful passions and pursue righteousness
    1 Corinthians 6:18-20 Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body.

    Galatians 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
    Hebrews 13:4 Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous.
    Romans 13:12-14 The night is far gone; the day is at hand. So then let us cast off the works of darkness and put on the armor of light. Let us walk properly as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and sensuality, not in quarreling and jealousy. But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires.
    Colossians 3:5 Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.
    2 Timothy 3:4 Treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,
    Jude 1:4 For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

    All these verses speak of fear. Even passion and sensuality themselves are deemed evil. And you want to tell me Christianity doesn't suppress sex? Well you must have a narrow idea of what sex is then. If you live after these dogmas you're doomed to suffer as a man simply because of the reality of your biology. The bible does not teach you how to properly integrate your shadow self into your normal life, like C.G. Jung teaches. The bible only teaches you to hate, fear and run from your shadow self. Which in turn only charges it with power. Do you think it's a coincidence that it's catholic priests who become child molesters in great numbers? Do you really think it has absolutely nothing to do with the faith? I don't think so. When you suppress a side of yourself it's like you pull on a rubber band, at some point it snaps back with a force that is unrecognizable.

    I'm not saying that people should have sex all over, orgies, etc etc. I'm saying the bible doesn't teach man how to deal with lust in a proper way. Period.
    It may approve it (what other choice does it have??), it doesn't teach you how to handle it.

    Well there's ventilating and then there's ventilating.

    So why did God equip us with young hot bodies and virtually limitless libido? Imperfect design? I don't think so. Imperfect Christian doctrine is more likely.

    I do believe that the bible was written through divine inspiration. But still written by men. Men are ignorant and make mistakes. Two factors that even the bible isn't safe from. So just because the bible is clueless how to properly navigate the waters of lust and passion and bring them in tune with the rest of our aspirations, doesn't mean there isn't a way to do it. You just won't find it in the good book.
     
  20. SuperFan

    SuperFan Fapstronaut

    Funny--the reason I (and many others) are here on NoFap is because we decided to go along with "the reality of our biology" and it doomed us to suffering far worse than any biblical notion of healthy sexuality.

    I don't know. I'm a Christian. I'll let the Catholics speak for Catholicism. But yes I do believe their insistence on celibacy has backfired severely. And I don't believe it's even biblically sound.

    Sure it does. It says lust should be avoided, and it's right in saying that.

    All lust cares about--at least if we're talking about true, spiritual lust, distinct from healthy sexual desire--is being satisfied. It doesn't care about the object it lusts after--it only wants to use it for its own pleasure, regardless of what the effect will be on the object. Lust is why we have rape and pedophilia. Lust is why we have rampant infidelity and broken families. You deal with lust by killing it, not by reasoning with it or trying to contain it.

    You're not reading these clearly. These verses are about sexual immorality, not sex in and of itself. The same God who said "be fruitful and multiply" can't possibly be opposed to sex, particularly if we're assuming we're sexual beings because He created us that way.

    Imagine if I found a bunch of bible verses that warned against eating junk food and candy all day, and I said, "SEE? SEE? The Bible suppresses food!!!" That would be complete nonsense. It would be against food that's bad for you, not food overall. It's the same way with sexuality.

    I completely disagree. But best of luck to you.
     

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