Having doubts about nofap

[HereAndThere]

I relapsed this time because i wasnt committed to rebooting. Im still on the fence because i feel like a big part or me is invested in this destructive lifestyle. And it is, so much of my time and energy has been spent fueling and building these obsessions. Im having problems letting that part of me go, i still cant imagine myself completely free of it in the future. I failed in the past when i detached myself from addiction, several times i have come back and i fell lower. I am still not convinced in the validity of the process, part of me is nagging:"Do you really want to denounce this pleasure source? Almost everybody is doing it, it cant be wrong." I want to do something, i want to work to make things better, but i feel torn, conflicted.

 

[3nigma]

If you're not ready, you're not ready. I've been putting off quitting smoking for at six months.

 

[HereAndThere]

If you're not ready, you're not ready. I've been putting off quitting smoking for at six months.

I did too, i was trying to quit smoking for years. Until i convinced myself that the positive things about quiting were worth the frustations of abstinence. But cigarettes were always clearly bad, i had the whole medicine and most people behind my decision to quit. Masturbation and porn are not clearly bad. Ive got no such strong consensus that PMO is ban compared to cigarettes. We are fapstronauts after all, we are still mostly flying alone.

 

[I will win]

That's your mind trying to persuade you that this addiction is good, but actually it's not even worth it at all. There's no point of wasting your time and energy on such a useless things that gives you no benefit in exchange. And being able to defeat an addiction, shows how strong you are, and how achievements you can achieve! Even if you have no purpose to quit this addiction. Quit it, to show how strong you are!

 

[HereAndThere]

That's your mind trying to persuade you that this addiction is good

Definitely, im working on identifying instances when that happen to be able to better prevent them.

but actually it's not even worth it at all. There's no point of wasting your time and energy on such a useless things that gives you no benefit in exchange.

I dont know. It has its value as a coping mechanism. Because of porn ive also met alot of different people online, i learned alot. Also where do i put the line between good and bad? Are erotic stories bad? Are porn forums bad? Is cam sex bad? Is sexting bad? At some point i step into a grey area where i lose my resolve. I guess it depends on how these things and rebooting affect me in the long term. Thats not always clear. I need to make a leap of faith it seems, if i plan to give it a proper try.

Even if you have no purpose to quit this addiction. Quit it, to show how strong you are!

It wont be me anymore after im done. Which is not necessarily bad. But its not necessarily good either.

 

[I will win]

I dont know. It has its value as a coping mechanism. Because of porn ive also met alot of different people online, i learned alot. Also where do i put the line between good and bad? Are erotic stories bad? Are porn forums bad? Is cam sex bad? Is sexting bad? At some point i step into a grey area where i lose my resolve. I guess it depends on how these things and rebooting affect me in the long term. Thats not always clear. I need to make a leap of faith it seems, if i plan to give it a proper try.

What makes you so confused about porn being bad?

 

[HereAndThere]

What makes you so confused about porn being bad?

I have always been exposed to the notion that porn is something that adults consume. That they smoke cigarettes, drink beer, talk loud and watch porn. I got rid of nicotine and alcohol in my life btw... Later that was replaced by that liberal notion that sexuality is something that should not be stifled in any way. I could not argue with that, i was young, i wanted to experience as much as i could. Besides, it felt exiting. Putting a label "bad" on porn at this point seems so wrong. How could so many people consume porn if its so bad? I know that is a fallacy of appeal to majority. But still, the connection of porn with "real problems" still seems fuzzy, proof is very circumstantial.

 

[NotSoAverageJoe]

Viewing pornography goes against you're true sexual nature. It is a drug, plain and simple

I've been more mindful the last few times I've relapsed and realized something.

The high I get from pornography feels very similar to smoking weed, strictly from the neurochemical point of view both hijack dopamine.

Pornography is a drug, not an expression of sexuality

 

[I will win]

How could so many people consume porn if its so bad? I know that is a fallacy of appeal to majority. But still, the connection of porn with "real problems" still seems fuzzy, proof is very circumstantial.

Porn consumes our energy and time, and gives us no benefit in exchange, and it makes women in our view nothing but a thing that we discharge our sexual urges in. In addition, porn will make you pervert in real life, as you will be looking at women everywhere and you'll have the urge to touch and maybe even rape them. The real reason why a high majority of people watch porn is because anyone can access to it easily and is very hard to stop, on the other hand, drugs are hard to access and can be treatable by the help of other people, while porn, need you only to defeat it.

 

[HereAndThere]

Viewing pornography goes against you're true sexual nature. It is a drug, plain and simple

My true sexual nature is as much the thing that was hardwired by birth as it is the mating pattern enforced by society and our parents. Which can vary greatly. Celibacy until marriage and marriage until death takes us apart aint exactly natural either... But i get your point, porn can hijack that hardwired part to act as a drug.

The high I get from pornography feels very similar to smoking weed, strictly from the neurochemical point of view both hijack dopamine.

As does real sex. And eating. And gambling. And amusement rides... And all of those things can be used as a drug.

Pornography is a drug, not an expression of sexuality

It can be in a form of exhibitionism and voyeurism, but yeah, when it becomes the main fixation it becomes just a drug.

 

[HereAndThere]

Porn consumes our energy and time, and gives us no benefit in exchange, and it makes women in our view nothing but a thing that we discharge our sexual urges in.

Its kinda depressing that we are so limited as human beings that just by fulfilling the strongest desire we have for women their company loses purpose. Women are women despite how full our balls are.

In addition, porn will make you pervert in real life, as you will be looking at women everywhere and you'll have the urge to touch and maybe even rape them.

I smell shame.

The real reason why a high majority of people watch porn is because anyone can access to it easily and is very hard to stop, on the other hand, drugs are hard to access and can be treatable by the help of other people, while porn, need you only to defeat it.

Hmm, kinda like alcohol. And yet society keeps both widely available.

 

[I will win]

So, are you still confused?

 

[Adrox11]

Do you really want to denounce this pleasure source? Almost everybody is doing it, it cant be wrong.

well almost everyone eat junk food , but when you're fat or obese its VERY wrong.
when youre addicted to porn, its exatly the same like being addicted to food.

 

[Deleted Account]

I think P is comparable with refined sugar. It is the industrialized version of something known. A lot of food contains refined sugar even if it is not really needed (sausage e.g.). It is proven, that the regular consumption of refined sugar causes addiction symptoms. The other way around, people trying to avoid refined sugar become depressed and show many other symptoms of withdrawal.
"If sweets are so bad, why do so many people eat them?"
You see, the society always looks for excuses to fulfill the addiction.
You asked for a line between good and bad. I think, bad begins where the thoughts leave real experience. If you try out several things with a partner and you like it, there can't be something bad in it (except your partner does not like that but that is another topic).
So you realize for yourself that cosnuming P is bad for you and you want to stop it, that is a really good thought! Maybe it helps to think about a challange, just to try it. In the first place, you can prove yourself by succeeding in 90 days without PMO like many others did. Also you can keep in mind, that it is only a try like "If I don't like my life after these 90 days, I can start PMO. So what?"
My best wishes for you giving nofap at least a try!

 

[YngwieWanksteen]

I am still not convinced in the validity of the process, part of me is nagging:"Do you really want to denounce this pleasure source? Almost everybody is doing it, it cant be wrong." I want to do something, i want to work to make things better, but i feel torn, conflicted.

We are fapstronauts after all, we are still mostly flying alone.

I need to make a leap of faith it seems, if i plan to give it a proper try.

I hear you, man. I don't "use" anymore, go to a 12 step group, but when I share and a good bunch of people do, we say "I'd be lying if I said I didn't have good times and memories using (insert drug of choice)". And I have good memories looking at porn. Not supposed to say that on here, but I do. The feeling was electric sometimes.

When I joined a 12 step group, like a lot of people, I looked for loopholes. I found some, but what I realized is, I don't need to find any. If I want to use my DOC, I can use my DOC. I can make any loop hole I want.

I don't know how you have to come to it, but you have to believe in the validity of the process somehow. Whether you grit your teeth through it or whatever.

I am a bit of a devil's advocate and my own opinion is that doing or not doing NoFap is not bad. This is what we call stigmatizing addiction, if I'm correct. If you want to look at porn and masturbate, you are not wrong in my opinion. You are, as much as possible in addiction and the way we understand our place within it what with freewill, chemical dependency, holy intervention, etc, etc, making a choice. When I'm at a 12 step group, I see loads of people smoking, and I think "if (drug of choice) is robbing you in the day, smoking is the thief that steals your car at night". But that's their choice.

Mind you a place like a 12 step group or NoFap is not here to advocate, "hey man, it's totally cool and fine if you go off back to that". We have to advocate against it, throw support against fighting it. That is the point of this place.

I guess I want to say, it's ok to be doubtful. It's ok to not have swallowed all the Kool-Aid. It's ok to say fuck I want to quit porn, but I think I still like it.

There's an expression "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater". I love porn. At least I love the dopamine giving effect it had on me. Probably more so in those years when I wasn't as depressed or I thought I just didn't want a mate at that point. I do not love what it did to me. I know I cannot use it safely anymore. It's like I love weapons, I don't love what they do to people.

 

[nofepfepforlife]

you need to quit before its too late, trust me.

 

[SuperFan]

I relapsed this time because i wasnt committed to rebooting. Im still on the fence because i feel like a big part or me is invested in this destructive lifestyle.

part of me is nagging:"Do you really want to denounce this pleasure source? Almost everybody is doing it, it cant be wrong." I want to do something, i want to work to make things better, but i feel torn, conflicted.

Welcome to the club, man. I think virtually every man in these forums can relate to you.

Tell me if this sounds familiar: there would be times when I'd feel a really healthy sense of conviction--like, I knew porn and casual sex were ruining my life and that I needed to quit. So in a rare moment of clarity, I got rid of everything. I deleted pics, I erased numbers from my phone, I closed profiles on various porn and hookup sites ... but I almost always kept one secret email address open. It was like I just couldn't let go. I wanted one little outlet ... just in case.

When I finally came to grips with the fact that I had to shut down that e-mail address, it felt like losing a limb. Now, looking back, I know it was one of the best things I did, but it felt excruciating in the moment. When you've conditioned yourself for years to depend on this for your pleasure and comfort, being without it sounds crazy. You can't imagine a life without it being exciting and fulfilling.

The sad part is that you may not have experienced enough pain yet. It sucks to say that, but there's a lot of truth to it. People don't usually get serious about addiction recovery until they've experienced significant loss or painful circumstances. I go to meetings where several of the guys have been arrested for their addictive sexual behavior. Some have done time in prison. Some have lost 2 or 3 marriages. Some had to lose their careers before they sought help.

For your sake, I hope you take a step of faith and give recovery a shot before you learn this truth the hard way.

 

[HereAndThere]

So, are you still confused?

I guess not. Im still uncertain about some things about nofap but i think it deserves the benefit of the doubt. I can live with that. I think i have to live with that.

 

[I will win]

I guess not. Im still uncertain about some things about nofap but i think it deserves the benefit of the doubt. I can live with that. I think i have to live with that.

Well, my job is done here.

 

[HereAndThere]

You asked for a line between good and bad. I think, bad begins where the thoughts leave real experience. If you try out several things with a partner and you like it, there can't be something bad in it (except your partner does not like that but that is another topic).

I heard that same notion before, living in the now and mindfulness are terms that came to my mind. Im working on understanding exactly what that means and internalizing it.

So you realize for yourself that cosnuming P is bad for you and you want to stop it, that is a really good thought! Maybe it helps to think about a challange, just to try it. In the first place, you can prove yourself by succeeding in 90 days without PMO like many others did. Also you can keep in mind, that it is only a try like "If I don't like my life after these 90 days, I can start PMO. So what?"

Actually that sounds pretty good. It relives me of anxiety i have when i imagine myself years in the future still fighting with the same issues. It makes me feel better today and future dont actually exist yet when you think about it... Comes back to that living in the moment concept.