He is at it again (help needed!)

Discussion in 'Partner Support' started by Lilla_My, Apr 4, 2019.

  1. petros1982

    petros1982 Fapstronaut

    I Disagree!

    Numb, Lilla_My, EyesWideOpen and 5 others like this.
  2. fadedfidelity

    fadedfidelity Fapstronaut

    There is no way you are serious with this. Are you trolling to be an ass to SO's? Why are you even here?? You must be a single PA that hasn't seen the soul crushed eyes of a betrayed partner.
    Bogo Biggins, kropo82, Numb and 5 others like this.
  3. Pinetree

    Pinetree Fapstronaut

    I was trying simply explore another viewpoint or interpretation of the facts. Possibly a more positive one. Something like: "look, it's not that bad ".

    I obviously failed, maybe also due to a poor choice of words/statements. And I find it peculiar how my point escaped to the 3 people answering me.

    Because I'm almost getting a message from this thread: "if the SO is viewing porn, one should be upset". And I'm asking "why"? Why does it have to be so bad? Because I really think it's important to ask the question and answering it is helpful in trying to explore alternative viewpoints. And alternative reactions, besides the upset one.

    And an important point is that addiction is like an illness. To a certain extent, the addict can't help it but be an addict. Like when it comes to his compulsion to satisfy the need or urge, breaking promises, etc. And this isn't singular to porn addicts.
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
  4. hope4healing

    hope4healing Fapstronaut

    I think that's actually a fair message to get. For those of us who are in a committed relationship and who have an expectation of fidelity from each other, it's reasonable to be upset when your partner chooses to go against those expectations and then lies about it. Repeatedly. It's about trust and that trust being broken. It isn't about a negative or narrow mindset.

    How else do you suggest the facts be interpreted that would be helpful and realistic? The fact that your partner has made selfish choices that have caused hurt and broken trust is pretty simple and straightforward. I don't see a lot of other possible ways to look at that, but maybe I'm not trying to be positive enough about it. I'd like to know what they are.
  5. Pinetree

    Pinetree Fapstronaut

    That's probably for everybody to find out for themselves. Some people find answers in religion or in meditation or other places. If one doesn't find an answer, they'll suffer more or just quit.

    A suggestion may be to look at the addiction like an illness, like something that's beyond their control. Where you don't blame somebody for being sick, but offer them understanding and support. And some illnesses are caused by selfish choices (ex. sugar abuse, smoking, substance addiction).

    For example in all addictions you'll have cases of breaking of trust. You'll have somebody promising they'll never going to relapse, and some time later they do relapse. It's part of the illness. And addictions are illnesses, because they change the brain.

    Ok, it's reasonable, but is it helpful and can it be changed ?

    If you're getting upset and then you react to that upset and your partner reacts to your reaction, it's escalating.

    It's better, if possible to avoid the additional layer of conflict, with blaming and arguments and promises being made and broken. Which in my view is just as bad as the bare addiction.
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
  6. hope4healing

    hope4healing Fapstronaut

    I agree with this. It does change the brain...and it can also be changed back.

    PA IS within one's control because it is, in fact, caused by selfish choices. If it wasn't, no one would ever be in recovery. It isn't like Parkinson's or diabetes where the person can't just choose to be in recovery from it. And, I, myself, have been understanding and have offered more support than I ever thought I could. I don't blame my husband for his PA...I know it's clearly linked to his F'ed up childhood and all the disfunction he grew up in. It was the perfect storm for creating this whole issue. But, at some point as an adult who makes their own decisions, you shouldn't conveniently be able to fall back on all of that every time you decide to be selfish instead of holding yourself accountable.

    There doesn't have to be blaming and arguments for the SO to feel deeply hurt and betrayed. To me, it seems like you're trying to throw all the blame on the SO for feeling hurt and betrayed...as if there would be no problem if the SO would just be more positive and supportive and understanding. But, that's crap. Parts of your previous statements were...
    If you had any idea what betrayal trauma does to someone, you would never have to ask such insensitive questions or defend the actions of those who cause it. Maybe it would be more helpful if the PA could be more understanding and supportive of their SO who is suffering from betrayal trauma due to their own choices. Betrayal trauma is not something the SO chooses to experience. Why not see that as an illness that's "beyond their control" as much as you say PA is the same?
    Bogo Biggins, Numb, Mourde and 2 others like this.
  7. Tao Jones

    Tao Jones Fapstronaut

    In recovery, we seek to make amends for the harm we've caused to others. A necessary first step in this process is taking responsibility for the consequences of our actions, even (perhaps especially) when unintentional. That harm is very real, regardless of whether we meant for it to be inflicted. The truth is that I chose what I did, every time I sat down at a computer to browse with ill intent. It was a compulsion, so it was very difficult to start saying no to it -- but it was always a choice.

    I shattered the trust of my SO through my own choices. If I never err again the rest of my life, I can never repair the damage that was done, and every day I have of her trust from here on out is an unmerited gift. I commit to do my best, realizing it will never be enough. That's just the reality of it. It's all true. (Healing can and does occur. Restoration is possible. It is a lot of work, and both parties must be fully committed. There is room for hope. But it is a long road back.)

    I used to minimize and downplay the severity of my behavior. I have learned that this was just another layer of defense mechanism I had built up to comfort myself; just one more way I had learned to insulate myself from reality, no matter who or how it hurt.

    Recovery is a lonely road at times. Our SOs really cannot be in it with us. They can support and encourage -- or not. Either is a valid choice for an abused SO. Other addicts can empathize, and that is very helpful. But the *only* one who can choose to change -- and keep making that choice, one day at a time -- is us. Best get moving.
    Bogo Biggins, Numb, Mourde and 6 others like this.
  8. need4realchg

    need4realchg Fapstronaut

    Lots of helpful encouragement already on here, hopefully this comes across the way I mean it....

    Based on the tone of the thread, I want to suggest an alternative to what sounds like a damaging pattern of stress: Please reconsider whether you feel healthy, strong enough to be “trusting but verifying his web history.”

    I get the need to do so obviously but honestly looking at it with your self -esteem held hostage...then you click the history tab ...and hold your breath... “ okay last night nothing , that’s good, but wait what’s this from last week.... omg.” Now reality ruins your stomach and you are anxious, and distraught. No Bueno for either if you.

    Literally it’s the inversion of the PA.
    Let me explain.

    PA know that certain images will trigger them to pmo but they “look anyway.” What do they see? Terrible immoral images that shock and violate their conscience. What do they do with this? They harm their minds and bodies by swimming in it.

    In this sense: my SO, would do the exact same, find even worse stuff than that honestly, then feel completely empty, saddened, upset, lost, worthless, etc.

    If this is not good for PA, then it’s Certainly not good for the SO.

    We were counseled to have someone else be the verifier, designate a person in charge of this, to give you some breathing room. In our case it was a senior family member and one of our friends.

    I know it’s awfully tempting, just consider your sanity, your blood pressure, the effect it has in your health.

    YOU deserve a respite from the stress. Be anxious for nothing ...
  9. Pinetree

    Pinetree Fapstronaut

    That control is to a limited extent, for some people more limited than for others.

    If it was fully within one's control, people would quit more easily.

    The problem of "selfish choices" is that they build up until they rob you of the possibility of making choices.

    I'm not trying to shift blame, in fact, I think blaming isn't helpful at all. I'm for finding ways to make peace between the need to blame / defend / accuse somebody.

    Maybe those two diseases aren't best examples. But I really think that some PAs can't just choose to be in recovery. I see some around really struggling, with little progress.
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
    need4realchg likes this.
  10. need4realchg

    need4realchg Fapstronaut

    Ergo addiction...

    I think we gloss over what is an addiction.

    If we replace the “ addict on the street” who rejects help with the loved ones of pmo suddenly their dysfunctional conduct make sense.
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
  11. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Fapstronaut

    PAs choose to pursue recovery or they choose not to purse recovery. They choose to do the work or they choose not to do the work. They choose to be held accountable, find a 12 step program, get a sponsor, find support, get in therapy, do the emotional work, do the physical work, whatever it takes, etc, to arm themselves with the tools to learn the root cause of their disconnection from others and find the skills to cope with stress and trauma that may stem back to childhood . They choose every single day how much work they are willing to put forth. They choose every single day how to handle their stress. They choose every single day how to treat their spouses and significant others. Learning empathy for those they have hurt is part of recovery. This is something you may want to add to your recovery activities to try to understand the pain and betrayal that PA and SA causes better.

    No one said it was easy, however, when you are willing to put forth the effort and do the hard work, progress comes. One day at a time.
  12. fadedfidelity

    fadedfidelity Fapstronaut

    Thank you for pointing this out. This is how it feels. I wish I could have someone else verify and look, but who? There is no one else I want to bring into this mess or expose this to.
  13. Tao Jones

    Tao Jones Fapstronaut

    If your SO is open to using accountability software and AP(s) via this site, it would be a privilege to serve him and you in this capacity. My wife is quite glad to not have to be my babysitter, and I am sure you would like to be excused from the responsibility as well!

    I use Accountable2You and have a commitment to install it on all electronic devices we own. You can read more about how this software works on their web site.
  14. Lilla_My

    Lilla_My Fapstronaut

    Of course he has replaced me. He has denied me sex for years so he can watch porn instead. Those women have been his priority and I have been nothing more than a duty. The women are countless. If he had cheated once, then at least it would have been one woman. But now it's thousands. He looks at me naked and I'm thrown into a gladiator ring with thousands of women I can't compete with. When I leave the house, he visits them. When I'm waiting for him to cuddle me in bed, he is in the bathroom with them. I'm just his boring, demanding wife. He looks at me and says "your one breast is bigger than the other". He knows all about the female body of course, and how mine doesn't measure up.

    Can you imagine the woman you love pick other guys over you every day for 5 years? How she touch herself thinking about their genitals? How she drools over them? How you are just an obstacle keeping her from them? How she compares you to everyone else and find you unsatisfying? How she looks at you with boredom while you have sex with her?
  15. Lilla_My

    Lilla_My Fapstronaut

    Thanks, this is really what I needed to hear. I have found that looking at what he is doing is causing me so much more despair that I've stopped recovering each time. I'm starting to feel mentally ill. I can't take anymore.
    Bogo Biggins and need4realchg like this.
  16. Lostneverland

    Lostneverland Fapstronaut

    Lilla_My...I can detect the pain in your writing...but honestly...your PAs behaviour has nothing to do with you. Oh he may criticize and blame you, but don’t take it on. His brain has been dramatically influenced by what he’s obsessed with.

    The more you monitor and challenge him the more sneaky etc...he’s going to become. It’s going to drive you absolutely insane. Your life is ticking away, all wrapped up in the behaviour of an addict.

    Please I beg of you...take care of you. Take a warm bubble bath, read a good book, go for a walk and notice all the little things. Go to a play ground and watch children play. As much as you try to stop him and his behaviours, the more he’s going to do exactly that...it’s the nature of the beast.

    Above all else though...be true to you...love and hugs coming your way.
  17. need4realchg

    need4realchg Fapstronaut

    Yes. Sadly, in my case, my wife did have real health issues from continually "peeking" into my mess while I was lost in the death grip of my addiction and acting out sexually.
    She is in her 40s. She was living with elevated stress levels, which began to manifest itself in her flexibility, she complained of back problems, her weight fluctuated (+/- 13 lbs), she started to see a chiropractor, the most devastating was when they did blood tests and saw her cortisol levels were higher than normal. That was because of lots of stress, no release. By the end of last year, she had been diagnosed as diabetic, which was shocking because she has been vegan for at least 14 years... but stress, stress, stress. no bueno.
    She decided to reverse course and take care of herself, and leave me to my mess to sort it out.

    I (from afar) watched her start to put her life back together by focusing on health and good dietary practices. I encouraged her to go for a 2 weeks at a health retreat and i took off work. Sacrificing to help her felt good for me, and it was huge for her. She met other women with similar problems with their husbands and she came back rejuvenated, refreshed and had a lots of holistic treatments, vitamins and natural hydrotherapies (cold showers, sauna, hot baths, and planned girlfriend trips with her best friend). It helped her put her self-esteem and mind back together.

    Meanwhile, me watching her focus on her (finally after I had wanted to see her get better) I was able to make lots of healthy changes. I repurposed my energy towards the gym, and got a financial counselor, and pushed myself to be held accountable with my time and money. I began to see that I "get to spend time with my kids" instead of I "have to spend time with my kids."

    It's hard to believe that was in january and today I admit I have an addiction and am studying all of the information here to be helped, and to help others.

    Exactly. you can read my above post. I agree the more sneaky we become if we need to be. In my case, when I decided to act out sexually, I never hid it; i knew it was wrong, but wanted to be up front about it because I did not understand why i felt contrary to my belief. I was trying to be transparent, not moral.

    I think you can improve your health AND marriage if you refocus your attention on yourself, not for your husband directly, but he WILL notice your attention has shifted and it will motivate him to match you. We are competitive (for the most part), and like to be the knight in shining armor.
    Bogo Biggins and prettyboichad like this.
  18. Lilla_My

    Lilla_My Fapstronaut

    @need4realchg I'm sorry to hear about your wife's health issues. It's crazy how our emotional distress can manifest itself physiologically. Hopefully, she is taken care of. The retreat seems like a nice idea for her. I really didn't believe we could get sick from stress, but after I discovered my life being a fraud I developed high blood pressure. The same day I found out, I got rashes that still to this day (6 months later) won't budge. The itch is there all the time, raw inflamed skin. I have nightmares every night. Luckily, I have stopped crying every day.

    The last thing you wrote was interesting. As my husband sink deeper into depression, I work on keeping my mood up for him. I try to work and focus on my things, since he desperately want to be alone all the time. Hopefully he can somehow get influenced if I'm strong and happy, and try to pull himself together.

    Thanks for your posting and sorry about the late reply.
  19. Bogo Biggins

    Bogo Biggins Fapstronaut

    Incredible post:

    Every PA should read this, anyone who thinks porn dosnt damage society should read this, the bloody law makers should read this.

    ...and understand the terrible pain PMO causes SOs. I am incredibly moved reading this. Thanks.
  20. Lilla_My

    Lilla_My Fapstronaut

    Thank you Mr Tumnus. Porn was involved in over half of all divorces back in 2004. It continues in full force to destroy families and individuals. I've gone from a vibrant sex loving adoring wife to a disillusioned shell. I don't want children with this man any more, I just need to cope every day now until the end. I will never make the mistake of trusting anyone ever again. The constant rejection has taken away my femininity and I'm just a woman in my chromosomes and appearance, nothing else.
    Bogo Biggins and Numb like this.

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