Most (probably all) of us have seen scenes of women pleasing themselves (or in some cases - pretend to do so). In these scenes it's salient that what (sometimes supposedly) turns the women on is her own body. the mere fact that she is touching herself. Well, what about us? The (recovering) porn addicts? Can we please ourselves focusing merely on the physical feeling we enduce in ourselves? Can we orgasm with a mind blank of thoughts? With no mental images of any kind, just focusing on our own body? Can we allow ourselves to truly explore our physical sences, caressing ourselves fully, touching our skin like those women in the solo scenes (only without putting on a show), exploring what gives us joy, full joy, and not foucusing solely on our member? (although maybe it's the main dish). I thought this can be healthy. Not addictive as porn. A clear mind. And so I went for it. Manged to experience some good feelings. The absence of thoughts to trigger arousal took my mind to a very different state than the porn/fantasy FAP. It felt clinically clean. But I couldnn't achieve orgasm, and after 15-20 minutes I've let a stray thought, a 'twisted' fantasy, to snick to my mind - and it immediatly sent me over the edge. I wish I'll be able to please myself fully with a blank mind, living the moment. Many times the sex with my wife is loke that. I see it as a different thing than PMO, not even slightly related in the context of addiction. Opinions anybody? Paul.