Healthy masturbation

Discussion in 'Rebooting - Porn Addiction Recovery' started by PaulBaron, Jul 19, 2014.

  1. PaulBaron

    PaulBaron Fapstronaut

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    Most (probably all) of us have seen scenes of women pleasing themselves (or in some cases - pretend to do so). In these scenes it's salient that what (sometimes supposedly) turns the women on is her own body. the mere fact that she is touching herself.

    Well, what about us? The (recovering) porn addicts?
    Can we please ourselves focusing merely on the physical feeling we enduce in ourselves? Can we orgasm with a mind blank of thoughts? With no mental images of any kind, just focusing on our own body? Can we allow ourselves to truly explore our physical sences, caressing ourselves fully, touching our skin like those women in the solo scenes (only without putting on a show), exploring what gives us joy, full joy, and not foucusing solely on our member? (although maybe it's the main dish).

    I thought this can be healthy. Not addictive as porn. A clear mind. And so I went for it. Manged to experience some good feelings. The absence of thoughts to trigger arousal took my mind to a very different state than the porn/fantasy FAP. It felt clinically clean. But I couldnn't achieve orgasm, and after 15-20 minutes I've let a stray thought, a 'twisted' fantasy, to snick to my mind - and it immediatly sent me over the edge.
    I wish I'll be able to please myself fully with a blank mind, living the moment. Many times the sex with my wife is loke that. I see it as a different thing than PMO, not even slightly related in the context of addiction.


    Opinions anybody?

    Paul.
     
  2. dreamedm

    dreamedm Fapstronaut

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    I don't think it's healthy to have such an obsession and preoccupation with one's own body.
     
  3. bonnio

    bonnio Fapstronaut

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    This is not a good idea for people trying to battle their addiction to PMO. As you stated yourself, your mind eventually drifted to thoughts of a twisted fantasy to orgasm. To each is own, but this is something I would not advise.
     
  4. MelancholyWeightlifter

    MelancholyWeightlifter Distinguished Fapstronaut

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  5. IGY

    IGY Guest

    Paul - your addicted mind has come up with a pretext to masturbate, and you fell for it. Wake up and smell the coffee!
     
  6. Immor

    Immor Fapstronaut

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    IGY hit the nail on the head i'd say.
    Also women fantasize more than men and even you couldn't do it without. There is an intersting book on that, but i am not going to recommend that to anyone here.
     
  7. Captain B

    Captain B Fapstronaut

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    Goddamnit son, use the [ N S F W ] tag!! Don't come on here and describe solo porn scenes like that! Some people here are easily triggered.

    I do think you have a point though but I don't think it's achievable. Maybe if your mind were as clean and at ease as that of a buddhist monk but I know mine isn't. Before I started NoFap I used to think people who don't masturbate have a problem with themselves. I saw it as a way to express that I love myself and that I feel close to myself. Unfortunately I failed to see that I was falling into a pretty deep hole and there's no point in expressing your self-love for hours every day. Especially with the negative side-effects that come along with it.

    So I can see your logic in saying that a healthy relationship with MO could be good for you. But I think staying away from it and having a healthy relationship with your sexuality with a partner is much better for you. Ever since I started NoFap, I feel much closer to myself and realized this is what true self-love actually feels like.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2014
  8. Hiroki

    Hiroki Fapstronaut

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    Or tea! But ya wake up Paul bro. The last time I M'd I felt so pathetic and pitiful after, not even from a spiritual shame, just from an instinctual gut feeling like I was a weak link to the species who wasn't capable of finding a hot mate to participate with. Why in your right mind would you want to find reasons pulling a Han Solo is OK and worthy? Bro that shit ain't worthy! Find a partner if you are going to be sexually active. It might mean you have to level up in life.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2014
  9. Geyser

    Geyser Fapstronaut

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    Maybe I am being naive here, or maybe everybody else is being unduly hard on themselves, and Paul, but I still would like to believe that masturbation can be part of a healthy sex life.

    First off, everyone is talking about self gratification here. What about mutual masturbation with your partner? It provides all the same stimulations as sex. Physical, Mental, and emotional. Is this unhealthy?

    Secondly, surely masturbating to our own fantasies is healthier than masturbating to porn. Pornography is exterior to the body and therefore induces artificial levels of dopamine, I'm speculating here. Whereas our own fantasies, again I'm speculating here, would produce more healthy levels.

    Then everyone is overlooking the fact that we are all different. There are all sorts of things that are natural to the body that are harmful to one person but not another. Not to most people, 90%+ in fact. There called allergens. Lactose intolerance comes to mind. I can drink milk. Eat cheese, yogurt, ice cream, etc with no ill effects. Others can not. Just because they can't have these foods should I have to be denied them as well?

    Maybe Paul is the exception to the rule here. Maybe masturbation is not a problem for him. Who are we to say it is? He says he has a healthy sex life with his wife. Who I am to argue this. I don't know anything of Paul other than what he chooses to share with us. So I take everything at face value. He has a healthy sex life. I can't say this, that is why I am here, well one of the reasons. How many of you can honestly say you have a healthy and happy sex life? I'm guessing less than 30%

    Sorry if this came across a bit preachy but it sounds like everyone is trying to put their own personal problems on to Paul. He lives quite a different lifestyle from the rest of us, or did I believe at the moment. If masturbation is not a problem for him then good for him. I say fap away, within reason of course.

    There are a lot of religious people on this site. I see scripture quoted frequently. I am not a religious person, I have my own beliefs, but let me leave you with a verse I am familiar with: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." How many of you can cast that first stone? I know I can't.

    Best Wishes on your journeys,

    Geyser

    PS - I may have some knowledge of Paul you do not. I converse frequently with him. I find him quite insightful.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2014
  10. Immor

    Immor Fapstronaut

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    He is calling himself and us recovering porn addicts. So it is save to assume there is a problem with that.
    But even if that was not the case, this is so far off topic it shouldn't even be in the forums. We are on nofap.org and he is proposing "let's fap for health and happiness" ... WTF!!!
     
  11. dreamedm

    dreamedm Fapstronaut

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    That's called foreplay.

    That's self-gratification.

    Then why is he here, and why bother replying to his thread? We are all here because we've realized there is, indeed, a problem with PMO. I agree with whoever said that Paul is, indeed, looking for a pretext to masturbate.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2014
  12. Geyser

    Geyser Fapstronaut

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    He's here Dreamedm because he wants to quit Pornography. Correct me if I'm wrong but does not the P in PMO stand for Pornography?

    Does everybody need to have a problem with all 3 P,M, & O to be a member here?
     
  13. Captain B

    Captain B Fapstronaut

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    There is no point in having only one-sided discussions where everyone agrees 100% that PMO is bad in every single way and even mentioning that MO COULD be healthy is completely forbidden. This discussion here is important because it causes controversy and challenges the basic idea of NoFap. If this idea is weak, you won't find a better answer than "You shouldn't ask questions like this." but if it's strong, you will come up with good explanations as to why MO is bad either way, which will eventually strengthen the idea of NoFap, which will motivate you to keep going. Taboos don't help anyone. I once read a post on here that was supposedly written by a porn actress and had a link in it that lead to a study that said watching pornography cannot turn into an addiction. There was almost a shitstorm of fantastic replies that simply destroyed this claim - NoFap only benefited from this attempt to weaken it.

    And I agree with Geyser to an extend. Many people on here (and in general) project their own problems onto others too quickly. Looking at how different everyones' experiences are during their streaks, I think everyone can handle their PMO differently. I always try to make sure to state that I'm simply sharing my experiences - you have to decide if you can relate.

    Paul, if you only want to quit P, that's fantastic already! But if you continue MO, I think you have to be careful, keep it under control and watch out for red flags of negative side effects. For me personally, I'm too scared I might ruin the positive effects NoFap has had on my mind and body if I went back to MO now.
     
  14. know_a_bit

    know_a_bit Fapstronaut

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    We will always find rationalizations. Sometimes science will even say things such things are part of a healthy individual sexuality. But I would rather be somewhat unhealthy and have the energy and ability to do great things with my completely sublimated sexuality than keep myself in limbo and tell myself its part of a better life. It never is. Delaying gratification for another human being is the only healthy outlet that will keep you in this 'higher' way of living. That said. Don't give up because you may feel you've regressed at some point. Each sacrifice puts and extra 'hair on your chest' no matter what bumps along the road may follow. The key is never, give up.
     
  15. MelancholyWeightlifter

    MelancholyWeightlifter Distinguished Fapstronaut

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    I welcome this discussion.

    Physically, masturbation is fine. We can all agree on that. There is no harm to it unless it's done too aggressively or excessively often.

    It still teaches auto eroticism! You are teaching your mind and heart to look inward for sexual gratification. Sex is supposed to be about making someone else feel good. It's about expressing love. It should be a means to strengthen a bond between two people. Masturbation destroys that.

    Who here would watch porn WITHOUT masturbation? They go hand in hand. How can you expect to successfully quit porn while doing half the deed?

    It is the course of weakness! Don't be easy on yourself here. Don't choose the easy path. Choose this struggle and you will grow as a person. It is one of, if not THE most difficult compulsions to overcome. It's time to transcend our petty pleasures. They don't control us. WE ARE IN CONTROL. We are human, and the human spirit is capable of so much. Let it free.
     
  16. EoT23

    EoT23 Fapstronaut

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    If you want to be able to please yourself, it is never going to be through self masturbation. The word porn means sexual immorality. When you participate in self-gratification, it is a form sexual immorality, even if the pornographic images are in your head. Through 'meditation' or through fapping. So you can forget that. You are trying to seek ways in which you can exult the core of your soul to ecstasy without moral or spiritual consequence and this is cannot be done. If you take the short route to pleasure you will always be left empty handed, and even sorrowing after your own insecurities, and you will be driven over the edge. Sexuality was designed to bond husband and wife as a family unit. There is no way around this. If you get enough control over yourself in the long run you will have nocturnal emissions- these are on an entirely different playing field and you will notice that they have no consequence to your energy levels or your self-esteem.

    Other than that, the 'health' scientists talk about is nothing other than temporary self-gratification. It will be a struggle to hold fast to the moral code of no PMO but nothing sustains lasting happiness that is not struggled after. Don't fall for that psychiatrist crud. Any form of quick-self-gratification I can guarantee will lead you down to addictive behaviors and feelings of inadequacy or uncleanliness. God expects the best out of us, and the best can be difficult to achieve sometimes but there is a way.
     
  17. Immor

    Immor Fapstronaut

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    I agree, that would be, if not pointless, at least counter-productive to both learning more and welcoming people in.
    However if you come with an idea fundamentally challenging the foundations of this place, you better have a damn good reasoning, if not proof. Otherwise expect to be ridiculed.
    THAT is the extent of Paul's reasoning ......... WTF lol
    At least in my opinion that is utterly ridiculous. Now, i'm not saying you are not allowed to fap for that reason, or shouldn't have posted or anything like that. I am saying to me this just sounds ridiculous.

    Edit: Ok, i actually kind of overdid it and said Paul shouldn't have posted it here, in the last post. Captain B changed my mind.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2014
  18. MelancholyWeightlifter

    MelancholyWeightlifter Distinguished Fapstronaut

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    Exactly Immor. I want someone to convince me I should masturbate. Let's go. I wanna debate here. Level headed discussion with two sides.
     
  19. lovedaddy

    lovedaddy Fapstronaut

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    I really want to know what is acceptable healthy limit..I know we all are trying to push ourselves but at same time we must find out what's the acceptable healthy limit for male/female..Once in a weeks or Once in 2 weeks or once in a month??
    Please dont answer it depends on person to person
     
  20. MelancholyWeightlifter

    MelancholyWeightlifter Distinguished Fapstronaut

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    Physically you could probably get away with once a week. But really, at that point just STOP. For the sake of your mind.
     

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