Healthy masturbation

Discussion in 'Rebooting - Porn Addiction Recovery' started by PaulBaron, Jul 19, 2014.

  1. coolmike87

    coolmike87 Fapstronaut

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    im with meloncolyweigthlifter. what are you talking about dude? this is nofap. not masturbate alone to thoughts. not justify different forms of fap without porn. its NoFap. your justifying your addiction. people do this all the time on here and it is really annoying... you know what you are doing is cheating. if you dont want to admit your a masturbating addict then why are you even on here?
     
  2. IGY

    IGY Guest

    EoT23: You say that the word porn means sexual immorality. No it doesn't. It means "Writings, pictures, films, etc, designed to stimulate sexual excitement; and the production of such material." - http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/pornography

    Also, I do not think it is fair to expect this person to see things through the eyes of your religious beliefs.
     
  3. Squeaky Soul

    Squeaky Soul Fapstronaut

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    IGY, I think EoT23 means that porn is sexually immoral. I stand behind him on it. It's degrading to the human body. Porn is a fake version of love. It's like a really bad romance story, written by a bad author.

    Physically it's real, but porn stars are just actors and actresses doing what they do best... acting. Acting isn't real.

    Paul, We are all addicted on here, and masturbation gets quickly out of hand. I used to rationalize all the time by saying to myself, "Masturbation is completely natural and it's healthy." It turns one in on himself. Masturbation is just a selfish act, and that's why I believe that God doesn't like it. I used to not want any friends because of PMO... Now, I am Mr. Popular.

    ~Squeaky Soul
     
  4. DHorn

    DHorn New Fapstronaut

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    Many things can be shared here. You don't need porn to masturbate. You may need fantasy, imagine having sex with the air, thrusting into the open nothing, does it work? You can touch yourself, basically make love to yourself, rub oil, pinch nipples. Sounds weird, might work, but do you want to have a solo sexual relationship with yourself? Making love to yourself, hmmm... sounds like some new age perversion to me, really. Is it narcissistic? Is it futuristic, magickally black, transhuman? It's been done before, to deep depths we're sure, but at the end of it, did you transmute energy or did you drip it off until the next peak agitation? Masturbation is to relieve the pressure. Use the pressure for good work and you will never masturbate again. So your issue here is finding the work you need to do, as constantly as you need to do it. Get out of the house!! Ask for help from people and "the source." Also, hating on masturbation is not really necessary, don't demonize it, where it grows and attacks you. Instead, let it be what it is, an act which you can do, or not do, for better or worse, but really, no longer necessary (for now) for you. In other words, don't make a big deal about it (like quitting smoking) and it will eventually fade to a small memory that will hardly bug you. And at the end of the day, weekly or monthly sexual intercourse can fulfill most of our deep sexual beauty, most specifically when we see the other as a perfect vehicle of love and divinity (I'm talking tantra - deep tender love without manipulation, attachment, or ego's memory and judgment) All this may take a few years, but it will be worth it (like good college). Best!
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2014
  5. Shakti

    Shakti Fapstronaut

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    And alcoholic drinking self-made alcohol is healthier than the one who buys it in shop.

    /sarcasm


    @PaulBaron
    The scenes you are talking about are porn. Porn is fantasy from beginning to end. Someone paid those girls to do what they do and some of them can act better than others, fooling you into believing that what you're seeing is true. That's what they are paid for.


    Truth is, we PMO because our brain wants to feel good and sex is the ultimate source for happiness (speaking physiologically only, not psychologically). PMO is like "sex-instant", you don't need partner for it so brain gets used to being satisfied whenever it "wants". So obviously even if you ever succeed in getting off while blank minded (rather creepy idea) it won't fool brain and it won't satisfy it. The urge won't go away.

    UNLESS

    You train your brain to use sources for happiness other than PMO. We achieve it by stopping PMO. M there stands for masturbation.

    Masturbation never was and never will be healthy. And seeing how you described sex with your wife it seems that PMO already did damage to you.


    Fixing it is up to you. Read "success stories" subforum here and you'll see that quitting masturbation permanently is both possible and useful.


    Good luck.
     
  6. Hotshot

    Hotshot Fapstronaut

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  7. PaulBaron

    PaulBaron Fapstronaut

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    It's not an obssesion with own body. It's when natural physical urges of adult persons arise - letting it an exit if there's for some reason no partner to share it with.
     
  8. PaulBaron

    PaulBaron Fapstronaut

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    I'm trying to solve PORN addiction - not to avoid masturbating.
     
  9. PaulBaron

    PaulBaron Fapstronaut

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    Well, I'm not responsible for other peoples thoughts. I can only share what I believe to be right. And I never believed that avoiding masturbation is right. I'm 45 yeras old, exposed to porn since I was 12. It was never addictive until the explotion of free hardcore videos invaded the www.
    I think that even WITH fantasies, masturbating is OK, and indeed, it got me through 37 days "clean" until I tried to avoid ANY masturbation - then it led to failure.
    Masturbating without porn: A few minutes and I'm done or give up if it's not urge-driven (but boredom driven, what used to drive me towards porn).
    Masturbating with porn: It starts with a self promise that it's only a quikie. Especially now that I react so fast, because I'm not used to the massive exposure... and it ends after long hours and many orgasms - total failure.

    HOWEVER - Any of you who disagree with me, or that are trying to avoid ANY kind of masturbation: of course you should not even concider this!
    I was just asking what people here concider to be right. I'm still exploring what's right for me. And 100% sure that totaly avoiding masturbation is NOT my aim!
     
  10. PaulBaron

    PaulBaron Fapstronaut

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    Read above.
    No pretext. Never was trying to avoid masturbation. Only porn.
     
  11. PaulBaron

    PaulBaron Fapstronaut

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    See reply to him.

    also,
    My wife has these fantasies... they are mostly faceless. Not even about herself. When we had lovers (kind of in between poliamory/swing relationship with another couple) she fantasized much about HIM, but now that they're painfully gone - she's back to mostly fantasizing fogy acts, and not vivid full-stories like I tend to do.
    (well, I used to write a bit porn stories too). The wife in our lovers-couple was also not that vivid-fantasizer I think. She prefered that I write to her soft letters about the beginning of our next encounter - but never to be specificly about actions made later on.

    I'm not about to apologize about who I am and in what I believe. I do respect that you see things differently.
     
  12. PaulBaron

    PaulBaron Fapstronaut

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    Oops! SORRY!

    Never crossed my mind that such is a trigger. You are right. To me it's not - but it can be to others.

    I need to MO some. Else I fall right back to full porn addiction. The kind of MO I described in not addictive. Does not take hours.
    Sadly, when I collapse back to a couple of hours of porn, I react with higher general responce, and I make love to my wife - but later on I collapse to full addiction. When I keep clean - I lose attraction. She's lovely. It's not her. But that's how I react to my reboot. I just don't crave her. The last few days were EASY! Avoiding porn was done without even thinking of it. But avoiding my wife came with it. We cuddle, we kiss I feel love - not passion. :(
     
  13. fap addict

    fap addict Fapstronaut

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    I'm here to get support to stop masturbating, with or without porn. I have accepted that i wish to stop and recognise that I need help and support to do so. If anyone else is happy doing whatever it is they want to do, it's none of my business. It's my business to be here to support those that wish to stop. I always have a little chuckle at the people who want to have a debate on what is or isn't healthy. Makes you wonder why they need the debate at all if they are convinced. I don't care if it is healthy or unhealthy, I just want to cease it. I did't need to get cancer or any other illness to quit smoking. I made a decision to quit and whatever anyone else did is none of my business. Live and let live!
     
  14. PaulBaron

    PaulBaron Fapstronaut

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    Got a wife, 25 years. She's quite hot!
    She was my 1st partner, and the only one till recent years.
    Lately we had a couple of lovers. I had troubles performing with my partner. I was deeply in love with her, but performance was partial. (With wife was OK).
    They left. It was too painful for her when I couldn't perform at all. So my reboot is mixed with the pain of longing for her. Maybe this is part of the reason that now I rarely want to have sex with my wife. It's all so complicated...

    But in answer to your statement: I had four years during which I had two mates, two of the hottest women you can find (and can compete with most of the 30 years-old ladies). It's not the issue here.
    The issue is how I see my sexuality, what's right FOR ME.
    I never dared to fully explore myself, empty of mental images. Just checking what my body feels like. And I'm asking myself why not. It was kind of embarrasing, you know? And I don't know why it should be.
     
  15. PaulBaron

    PaulBaron Fapstronaut

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    10x Gayser.
    I'm NOT having a healthy sex life with my wife since "the elves" decided to leave. We are in quite a situation here. On one hand we are mourning their absence. On the other we deal with my second serious attempt to reboot, in which I'm much more decisive than the short one I had about a year and half ago. Then I stayed clean for 19 days, and once I filed - I had quit. Now it's a main goal in my life.

    I'm determined to make contact with "the elves" as soon as possible. But when will it be possible?
    She (the lover) needs to know I'm recovered from my addiction. I believe that the performance problem was something that had much more to do with the connection between us, than with my addiction. I don't believe that even being clean for two years will change much in my reaction with her. Yet I still love her, and miss her letters, writing to her back... composing songs for her that come from pure love, and being in bed with her, with them at our side. When I did perform - I had with her the happiest moments of my life. It was like religious excitement.

    Oh, and regarding religion... yup, I'm atheist. The elf, she's a true believer hoping that god understands. But I just cannot bring myself to believe in god. I'm more down to earth, believing only in things I can see, and in fairies :D
    Well, not really, but I wish fantasy stories were truth. The elf shared writing many such stories with me. It was condences happiness.
     
  16. PaulBaron

    PaulBaron Fapstronaut

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    No need no pretext to M. Look at my banner!
    I'm here to avoid porn, and SOLELY porn. Indeed I came to the conclussion that porn is addictive and bad for me. However, I did not come to such conclussion regarding M.
    I'm asking whether clear-mind M would be prefferable to fantasizing mind. That's all.
     
  17. PaulBaron

    PaulBaron Fapstronaut

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    Sorry Shakti, but I disagree here.
    I'm not trying to quit MO. Only PMO.

    I'm actually AFRAID of depending on anyone to get sexual satisfaction. Be it my wife or anyone else. I wouldn't like that. And she actually agrees with me. She was against drastic changes, and against quitting MO, but very pro quitting porn.
    And if I wasn't addicted to porn, she'd be OK with it too. At occations a few years ago she even joined me to watching, and we used it as a teaser and background a few times. She would keep on doing it if I wasn't addicted, but since we now understand that it's an addiction just like alchohol (or worse), we won't do it.

    We do drink wine :) but we don't have the tendency to get addicted to it. Just like I don't tend to get addicted to MO without the P.
     
  18. PaulBaron

    PaulBaron Fapstronaut

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    There are different beliefs on what's right and wrong. The name "nofap" is, as I believe, generic. If the managers here say otherwise, I'll respect it.
    I'm not against MO. It does not cause an addiction. Only porn is a disturbing addiction for me. I don;t wish to stop MO, but I wish to recover from my addiction. And I have thoughts on a different way to MO, maybe healthier.

    Some kids here don't even have a partner... Where will they expres their totally natural physical urges? Will they avoid orgasming for years?! Well, to my opinion, avoiding ANY kind of orgasm is unhealthy. Keep things in proportion!
     
  19. Immor

    Immor Fapstronaut

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    Wow .. nice post-streak Paul. There is a button under each post for quoting it. That could have helped to make it less confusing.

    If it was your goal from the start to only stop watching porn, then fine, go for it. Your first post made it sound like you were committed to the usual process and now had the idea to introduce fapping..

    For me fapping is the real problem and I don't believe it is healthy in general. I wouldn't mind watching porn, if it didn't make me fap. In fact, ultimately i want to be able to watch/read/write sexual things and not masturbate.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2014
  20. PaulBaron

    PaulBaron Fapstronaut

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    Correct! My only problem is the P. If I'll get one day to different conclussions - I'll deal with some more letters :D
     

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