Healthy masturbation

Discussion in 'Rebooting - Porn Addiction Recovery' started by PaulBaron, Jul 19, 2014.

  1. PaulBaron

    PaulBaron Fapstronaut

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    You are so clear and exact!
    Thak you.

    I'm dealing with a broken heart, with the reason being closely related to the addiction, although I believe not-rightfully so.
    I'm dealing with the problem that the person who reminds me most of all my pain - is my beloved wife. So on occations, when I'm with her starting some healthy coupling, I'm reminded of "the elves" we loved so much, and my arousal turns to tears.
    And I'm dealing with other sources of stress that everybody has in their lives.
    So,
    Even if I did want to quit MO as well, dealing with the physical crave would be too much for me. I tried for a while, just for fun, to avoid MO for one month. It broke a streak of 37 days porn-free. It's bad for me. So if I'll quit MO (I don't see right now a reason to do so) I'll deal with it later.
    The challenge right now is to avoid ANY porn: no videos, no photos, no stories, no comics (which may be in cases worse than real porn, but that is off-topic). My wife thinks that it's OK even if I WRITE porn stories, as long as things come from me. Even if the ideas are such that don't match my original tendecies, but were acquired by porn. I fear that it's not so right for me.

    By the way, it may be that some part of the addiction, is the habbit of being in front of a screen. So, if I really like this women, I found I easily get aroused by watching regular pics of her, having ROMANTIC fantasies of pre-sexualy approaching her.
    Maybe the screen is the main problem here???
     
  2. PaulBaron

    PaulBaron Fapstronaut

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    I actually belive in this being healthy.
    I don't wish to depend on my wife for sexual pleasure. I love her, she's sexy... the last few days I had no urge to approach her sexually, but it has many motives. I did have healthy sex life with her all through the years (25 years together) and I think that the reboot + broken heart are what's causing the difficulty. Oh, and of course, her being needed by her familly, being tired and frustrated/sad and not radiating sex...
     
  3. Immor

    Immor Fapstronaut

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    I had an addict breaking into our families barn and drinking and stealing the wine stored there...
    Alcohol, coffee, cigarettes and porn and video games are the common and socially accepted drugs of western civilization people get addicted to all the time.

    I tried to be reasonable, but you are so full of wrong ideas i will not bother to comment on every one of them. I just want it to be known i am generally of the opposing opinion of Paul
     
  4. PaulBaron

    PaulBaron Fapstronaut

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    It's actually easier for me to quit P without quitting MO.
    The urge to MO comes between twice a day at most, to once in 2-3 days at least. And the MO's duration is half an hour at most.
    Porn is different. I can stay for hours, maybe watchig stupid sitcoms in between, and I reached a record of 11 Os in a row in an 8 hour nightly session I had, wasting the next vacation-day sleeping. Pathetic.

    MO is not like PMO for me.
    Should a drinker quit smoking only because he used to have cigarettes with his bear? Even if now he enjoys only one cigarette once in a while and feels OK with it?
     
  5. PaulBaron

    PaulBaron Fapstronaut

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    Your reply sounds as if comming from religious beliefs. Even if you are not religious, there are many statements that you wrote with which I disagree. I respect your beliefs, but I'm far from sharing them.

    Sex is NOT "intended" to bond husband and wife. Actually, I belive that monogamy is NOT the natural way of life for the human race. I was monogamous for 21 happy years. Now, after 4 years of polyamory I'm monogamous again, due to sad circumstances. I still love and cherish my wife most of any other person. (And the kids as part of it). But I deeply feel there's no-return for me. I'm a polyamoric person.

    Self sexual gratification is JUST FINE. And for some people, even te use of porn for that aim is perfectly OK. However, losing proportions - that's what's wrong. Being addicted is bad.
    My addiction is to porn - not to MO. So I'll quit PMO, but not MO. Unless I find that MO is bad for me. Meanwhile I feel it's perfectly healthy.
    The question was: is clear-minded MO healthier than fantasy acompanied MO?
     
  6. PaulBaron

    PaulBaron Fapstronaut

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    WHY ridiculous?
    By the way, I don't feel ridiculed, or attacked in any way. People expressed their point of view. Some of the views look narrow minded to me. But I'm at total ease with everything everybody wrote. Probably because I'm calm about my own beliefs.
    Imagine people mocking Galileo for stating that the earth is rotating around the sun... would he change his mind? Well, the story tells that he whispered to himself that it's mmoving inspite the religious beliefs. Right?
    So... nobody yet changed my mind.

    You stated your beliefs, but you made no ARGUMENT to support them. If you'd say that god tells us it's wrong - I'd understand. I mean, we'd have no common ground to continue the conversation, but I'd at least understand where the argument comes from. However, you just stated that the idea that M can be healthy is ridiculous. I strongly disagree with you. Mainly, for people that have no regular partner, I think that MO once in a couple of weeks should be mandatory to keep sanity. Our body and psyche are built so we'd have sexual encounters regularly with the females in our tribe. There's a whole book (an interesting one!) called "sex at dawn" to back me up on that. But we live in a monogamous society, and for some of us it's had to find a mate... so what sould they do? Nothing at all? What was I supposed to do between the age of 12 (when I discovered MO) and the age of 20 (I didn't agree to offers from girls I didn't love, my GFs were too timid... I ended waiting till I was 20, and also we got married after a few years)... So... Should I have to avoid MO? Should I have to accept offers from girls I didn't fall for, and have meaningless sex, although I wanted the 1st time to be out of love? Should I have to wake up to dirty sheets, being embarrased in front of my familly because of night-ejaculations? GET REAL man! It's unnatural.
    And nowdays??? Even at the best times in our long marital life (25 years) my urges were for few times per day (well, now I know that part of it was porn-induced, but still) and my wife was suficed with once in a few days... So, shall I give up, and just wait till she's ready?! DO YOU HAVE A CLUE HOW MUCH ANGER SUCH A DEPENDENCY CAN BRING ON A MARRIGAE?! We are best-friensd, my wife and I. Such a burdain on both of us would ruin it. We are so happy together, we respect each other so much, we help and support each other so much... why shall we give this up? No way!
    Each of us have our own MO, with or without fantasies, and we have our coitus too. Putting the whole weight of sexual pleasure on each other is just un acceptable! I wouldn't like the pressure of relieving her of her sexual urges, nor of depending on her to get my relief!!!
    This is the ABC of healthy relationships! We never cheated on each other. When we wanted to have lovers - we did this together, and got into a MEANINGFUL relationship, and not just dirty-sex (which I actually wouldn't condemn either). We tell eachother EVERYTHING, with unquestioned trust. And that's the way marriages should work. Changing this lifestyle sounds too lonely to me. Building sexual dependance on eachother would be harmful.
    On the other hand, being addicted to ANYTHING is harmful too.
    I'm addicted to P, so I'll recover from P. This does NOT mean becoming a monk.
     
  7. PaulBaron

    PaulBaron Fapstronaut

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    If M or MO is not right for you, then it's not.
    I'm not trying to convince anybody about anything.

    I'm convinced that people who don't get addicted to porn, and PMO once in a while to it, using free sites (free, because I believe that most people in the industry are exploited, and I wouldn't want to contribute to that), don't need to stop doing so.
    I am addicted to porn, so I shall avoid it. But I can drink! and I can MO!!

    You may be addicted to M, so it's wrong for you.
    You may believe that M is wrong because of religion - then it's wrong for you, and I wouldn't want to convince you otherwise. On the contrary: I'd urge you to act upon your beliefs - or maybe change a bit the flavour of your beliefs if they prove to be wrong. I'd urge you to act upon what's best for you, concerning who you are, and not who I am.
     
  8. PaulBaron

    PaulBaron Fapstronaut

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    I think that no one knows better than no one else regarding such questions. The only case I can imagine of avoiding ANY kind of sexual pleasure for long periods, is a casae like Shaolin monks. They don't disregard their bodies: their whole life they spend training it as part of the religious routine.

    If you happen to have a partner, or occational relationships, then maybe you can avoid any M. However, to abstain completely from your natural needs for long months sounds wrong to me. Any extreme sounds bad.
     
  9. PaulBaron

    PaulBaron Fapstronaut

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    What will happen to his mind???? Will it melt?
    If MO does not turn you back to porn, and you don't get addicted to it - then it's not a bad thing.
     
  10. PaulBaron

    PaulBaron Fapstronaut

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    I'm a porn addict, a screen addict who can spend hours watching stupid movies and straming complete seasons of TV series instead of going to sleep.
    Actually, right now I'm acting to my addiction, answering posts for hours instead of preparing stuff I need to do.

    I'm NOT a MO addict. There you have it.
    Look at my banner. I'm trying to avoid porn. Never said I was trying to stop MO. I'm actually against stopping that.
     
  11. PaulBaron

    PaulBaron Fapstronaut

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    I strongly disagree that stopping MO helps me stop PMO.
    It works in the oposite way for me. Avoiding MO sends me back to PMO.
    Allowing MO, I'm calm, I don't exagerate with it, but I can avoid P - which is the goal.
     
  12. PaulBaron

    PaulBaron Fapstronaut

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    mmm... OK. Not my goal though.
    I'm OK with just quitting porn for now. M is part of my freedom, it's not my cage.
     
  13. PaulBaron

    PaulBaron Fapstronaut

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    Go ahead. Live. I'm not intending to interrupt.
    NOFAP is also for rebooting from PORN. For those who are addicted to PORN but not to masturbation.
    I am convinced that MO is fine for me, but PMO is terribly wrong for me. My question was about different kinds of MO, since I experienced something new that I didn't know it was possible, and since I found that it brings up questions in me - not moral questions, but more like wonder - I shared it. No attempt to ruin your cause, and I apologize if it had bad influence on anybody here.
    I'm NoFap addict. I'm a porn addict. There's a difference. Porn is strongly addictive as suggested here. MO is hardly so. And without using imagination, it becomes even less attractive.
     
  14. TMF9386

    TMF9386 Fapstronaut

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    Maybe this will offer a different perspective.

    I've been doing a lot of study through Ayurveda, the science of self healing that comes from India - it's rituals dating back over 5,000 years. We are made up of three types of energy, or doshas, which are Pitta (fire), Vata (air), and Kapha (earth). Pitta energy is very hot, and raises during the summer months and when our body temperature increases.

    Maybe instead of bodily masterbation, incorporate methods of cooling the body down. I'm unaware of your personal dosha (you're individual mix of these energies) but since it's summer,and you're dealing with urges, try cooling these down with diet. Start your morning with warm water and a little ground pepper (maybe 4 pepper corns with). If you're warm when you wake, maybe a cooling drink, like a green juice or Aloe juice.

    After showering, take a moment to stretch some, open the body, may pray or meditate, and then cool the skin. Maybe lightly coating the body with a cooling oil, such as coconut oil. Hydrating the skin keeps us in calmer states of being as well.

    As the inside of the body is tubular (the mouth and the anus) it's also important to keep these areas satisfied. Maybe try "oil pulling" in the morning - it will brighten your smile and is great for the gums. Google it to find out the process. Finally, oil enemas (with a cooling oil like coconut oil) will calm the energy of the pelvis. The anus is actually where a lot of our sensory nerves end, so keeping these calm and hydrated also calm hyper energy. It will also make elimination easier as well.

    Finally, massaging the belly with a little oil in the morning feels really nice and helps digest some residual feelings. The core of our physical body digests our emotions, and many men have problems digesting their emotions. All of this is a beautiful routine you can add to your lifestyle that balances and calms the body without leading to masterbation and arousal.

    Try it, see if it works, or take it with a grain of salt. Just offering some help from my own experience. Wishing you well on this journey man. Stay strong, and stay clean.
     
  15. hellfire2

    hellfire2 Fapstronaut

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    Hi Everyone.
    I have found this to be the most interesting thread on here.
    I myself have struggled and fought nofap/porn addiction for about 4 years.

    Lets all agree here and say porn is terrible for our mind body and soul. The most tried and tested method to completely remove porn is nofap. That does not mean it is the only method..
    Remember we are all on here because of porn (not masturbation). PMO only became a problem for 95% of us because of porn more specifically internet porn.
    Therefore I agree with Paul if he can find away to not use porn which includes a regime of healthy masturbation I do not see the problem. Remember Porn is the addiction like alcoholism that we cannot control NOT masturbation. Masturbation can be addictive but we can taper off it.. and not binge for hours.

    Now I would also note i am not trying trick people into breaking any streaks. Recovery Nation states people who are from a religious background may find it difficult to separate masturbation from porn (due to guilt associated with masturbation) and therefore will have no choice but to give up both.

    REMEMBER PEOPLE PORN IS THE ADDICTION. This was a non-issue before internet porn so lets discuss all methods for fighting porn and be open minded. Maybe once Paul has confidence in staying away from porn he will then turn his attention to abstaining from masturbation.. or maybe this method will not work but we should all listen.
     
  16. MelancholyWeightlifter

    MelancholyWeightlifter Distinguished Fapstronaut

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    All this leaves me with one question then... If masturbation is truly not an addiction, then why can't you stop? Why are we compulsed? If it is an action that is extremely difficult to cease, is that not an addiction? You may choose to do it, im not here to criticize you, but do not deny that you are addicted.
     
  17. Tombuktu

    Tombuktu Fapstronaut

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    I have been reading this thread since yesterday and tried my best to be neutral and open-minded. But the more I think about it the more I am convinced that the author may be a bit confused or misguided. This is just my own opinion.

    There are things I don't understand:

    1. This is forum is called nofap.org and the reason all of us (except the author) are here is to take a nofap challenge. It doesn't make sense for him not only to tell us that there is healthy masturbation, but also to try to convince us all to take his views. If we believed that masturbation was that healthy we would not have been here taking a nofap challenge.
    2. It seems to me that the author has a complex sex life that includes multiple lovers, swinging and more. While none of us judges him, the majority of us are trying to escape from addictions and seem to be coming from or longing for "traditional" one-partner relationship. We just want to keep our relationships healthy or want to start good ones. Being bombarded with stories of swinging etc… does not help some (if not most) of us. I don't even know why the author had to bring that up and how relevant it was to brag on about it.
    3. It seems to me that the author has no problem with faping but rather want to control his use of porn. I have the impression that although there is a porn addiction section in this forum, most, if not all people here do not disassociate porn from masturbation. PMO is seen as a whole package and people here do not (wisely) want to separate them into P and MO.
    4. I decided to read most of the author's posts. The majority, if not all of them are a case for masturbation. He seems to be on a crusade to convince us all to continue masturbating and just stop porn. Surely, he may be well-intentioned. But most of us have come here to stop PMO and to seek support and support eacg other. While philosophical debates maybe good I question the wisdom of bringing them here with such a bunch of vulnerable people.
    5. I think the author will struggle to find a porn recovery forum that supports his views. He is probably aware of that fact by now any way.
    6. It maybe a good idea for the author to keep his views of promoting masturbation on this forum to himself. This is for 4 main reasons: 1. All of us are here to stop fapping and take a nofap challenge. 2. All of us know from personal experience that PMO is a unit and it has screwed our lives. 3. All of us want to stop PMO and not just P. 4. This is NoFap's forum and not a noP but yes to fap forum.

    The above is simply my personal opinion. It is not meant to disrespect or personally attack the author. Since we are to have a healthy debate, I thought I should also contribute my personal and subjective opinion as a struggler wanting to bring his life in order. Peace! :cool:
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2014
  18. PaulBaron

    PaulBaron Fapstronaut

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    Thank's for the understanding and support. :)
     
  19. PaulBaron

    PaulBaron Fapstronaut

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    Oh. OK. Ican stop masturbating,if I have regular sex with my wife.
    It becomes HELL dificult with no satisfaction at all, but still, this is NOT the problem in my opinion. Why? mmmm... well, let me be a bit ugly for a moment and suggest you stop taking craps for a month. and I really mean it: do not go for nimber two.
    I know the comparison may not be really fair, but still: sexual urge is a natural thing, and I believe we need it satisfied at least once in avery few days.You may disagree - my life, my decisions.

    What hurts me is the porn, not the MO. If I choose to MO instead of being with my wife - well, that's another issue. This is something I don't wish to fully change. I don't want to fully depend on anyone else for sexual relief. Not even my beloved wife.
     
  20. PaulBaron

    PaulBaron Fapstronaut

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    Although you are writing politely, and made an effort toread my words open-mindedly, you failed both in not critisizing, and on opening your mind.
    You write your opinion as if it werethe words of god himself. You write in plural, nominating yourself as a representor of the majority here. You may be right - but then you may be wrong. I believe many people here (I guess that most of them) would not get addicted to M or MO, unles it was for the P part. Iinserted links that explain how the P addiction works and why. The epidemy of P addiction is a new disease that didn't exist before fast video steaming.

    You accuse me for being "on a crusade" to convince people they should MO.
    NO WAY!
    I wrote a personal experience, and intended for people who have interest in the diff between MO with or without fantasies to reply their thoughts. But instead - I got a storm of posts from people who are so intimidated by the idea that one can separate the P from the MO, that they just HAD to reply telling ME that I am wrong, telling ME how I should conduct my life, telling ME that I'm rationalising because I don't really want to recover.
    Well, I replied as politely and as open as I could, sharing my beliefs and my personal pain. From what I shared you may think that I conduct a crazy life, but if you concider that I'm 45 and had only 2 partners in my whole life, andthat I'm completely loyal to my wife... you can see it's not ashedonistic as you think.
    You look at my replies as preaching. THEY ARE NOT SO! I just explained to the responders what are MY views, and that it's OK that some people want to remove only the P from their regime. The MO does not keep me awake long nights, andit's not something I need daily. It does notcompromise my functioning in the daily life. Porn does. So there. for ME - it's OK. And you HAVE to except that.
    I'm sure that it's NOT OK for many others, that tie P & MO together. GREAT, I SUPPORT YOU! Please keep up with your recovery, and avoid any FAP. Some even wish to refrain from any sex at all. They feel addicted to sex, and so they refrain even from their spouses. Whatever works for them. It's their decision - and I respect it.
    I made MY decision, with a clear mind. Actually, when I decided to try a month of nofap at all, my wife was against this drastic move, and warned me that it'll make me relapse. She was right.
     

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