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Discussion in 'Partner Support' started by GG2002, Mar 16, 2018.
This is exactly how I feel as well.
I looked at that thread again and don't find you mentioning "3 months" or "three months" at all. I honestly don't find it. If I missed it, I'm sorry - it was not my intention to skip over it. You can point me to it if you'd like.
Finally! I got you to admit the truth! Hopefully you will no longer tell PAs the untruth that, if they hide their porn addiction at first, once they tell their SO later on (e.g.: years later), that they WILL leave.
Now let me explain to you more why PAs often don't fess up until much later. One, because of what we've just talked about, that the SO may stay if they don't tell them until later. But another reason is because a male PA can validly feel that it's unfair that he has an affliction that most women don't, and not only this, that it's an affliction that many (perhaps most) women do not forgive. Most women do not have a strong pull to seeing and MOing to naked images/videos of members of the opposite sex. As a result, many women do not understand this pull that guys have, and many do not forgive it. Now do you understand better why guys often want to cover this up?
None of that is a reason to lie. It just sounds like a poor justification.
Excuse me, but so far I have noticed you only replying to this person without taking into consideration ALL of the voices talking in this thread. No matter what month it is, 3 months or 30 months, it's all about the time already put into a relationship whether it is dating or not. Not all partners leave. I was a partner that didn't want to leave but had to for my own well being. Every situation and relationship is different. Saying every PA does this and every SO does that makes it come off disrespectful.
Are you a PA? What brings you here?
This was never about why guys cover it up, or understanding why they would. And to answer you question no, I don’t see that they validly feel they have an unfair affliction, and you have argued with me over and over and over again on this issue, my answer is still the same. In any event no matter what reason is provided it is not going to be later seen as justified, or cause less pain to the SO? And you seem to want to “argue” and win with me, so much so that you changed your screen name after I blocked the first one. This is about doing the right thing and being honest. If you don’t want to be honest or if you want to advise other PMO addicts to not be honest, so that they can trap their partners into a situation making it harder to get out of, that is their and your choice. I don’t think it’s the best choice, but it is their choice, it is not for me to argue with you about.
Most definitely not valid. It's not an affliction. It's not an illness. When the addiction is finally recognized and Step 1 is taken (even if the PA is not following the twelve steps, in order to recover, admitting you have a problem is the very first thing that must be done), it can be beaten by the PA taking full responsibility and going into 100% recovery mode. At this point it is a full on choice.
So men tend to be more visual than women. Does that mean men have no self control? Does that mean men do not need to take responsibility for their actions? Does that give them a free pass to demoralize and objectify women and betray their SOs?
It is completely false that men have a more natural bend to M than women. The difference is that most women don't use it as a replacement for their SO.
It is an excuse to say it's "unfair" that men have this addiction more than women. It's that kind of thinking that keeps you in the addictive cycle. Life is unfair. Suck it up, buttercup. Man up and take responsibility for yourself. Stop trying to be a martyr. And stop using your gender as a reason to be deceitful so you can continue your addiction without being held accountable.
This absolutely YES!
In fact, by the time it was out in the open, we'd moved in together (I'd given up my home), he'd met my daughter (I trusted him into our family) and I was heavily invested in him emotionally. However, if he'd have told me after a few months of being together, I could've saved all this heartache and pain. I would've been mature about it and said, "Well, if you get yourself sorted out/clean and are able to get erections over real women, let me know - I might still be single. However, at the moment, I require a better standard from the person I'm faithful to."
Instead he lied and lied. Now he's a couple of months no PMO. But...I still can't look at myself naked (let alone him looking at me), I feel tearful a lot, angry at the 3 years he took from me under dishonest pretences and that's without him relapsing. He also stopped me meeting someone who would've chosen making love to me - not chosen porn over me. That's a real kick to the ego.
@GG2002 is misleading because she often tells PAs that lying will not work for them, because the SO will certainly leave them once they find out they've been lied to. And this is just not true.
I like your long post with the different scenarios. I wasn't ignoring you, it's just that first and foremost I wanted to respond to @GG2002.
I agree that your 4 reasons why PAs don't fess up to their SOs at first are good ones, and some of them probably factor more than trying to "hook" their SO. For me, (2) and (3) would be the most relevant. I do agree that trying to "hook" your SO seems cruel, but not so much when you realize that: (a) the PA feels it's not his fault that he's a PA; he's just a guy, and guys are so susceptible to PA because they are visual and society is set up to trap him into visual sexual stimulation, (b) he loves his SO and doesn't want to hurt her with something she doesn't really understand (she doesn't usually understand the pull of porn), and (c) he wants anything but to lose her.
To me, it has always been about this. You don't seem to comprehend why guys cover it up. You feel that it always results in the SO leaving the PA. And that's just not true!
You've made a couple of incorrect assumptions here (and you know what happens when you "assume"). First, I never knew you blocked "Thomas Smith". I didn't even know that was an option on NoFap. I just thought you were intentionally not replying directly to me. Second, I didn't change my screen name because of you. I only had my smartphone once, and I didn't remember my password (and the password reset functionality didn't work), so I created the "Thomas Smith 2" account.
There's a middle ground here. Men must take some responsibility, but they still need leniency because this struggle is tougher on them than it is for women. Take this analogy: let's say that it were deemed wrong for any adult to speak in a high-pitched voice. Let's say it was shameful to do so. Now most men wouldn't have any trouble obeying this edict, because they naturally speak in a low-pitched voice, because of their male vocal chords. But most women would have trouble following this rule or societal convention. They would fail often. Now they CAN speak in a low-pitched voice, if they work really hard to do it all the time. But their natural state is to speak in a high-pitched voice. Should we shame them continually for failing to speak in a low-pitched voice? No, we shouldn't. The same goes for guys with porn. It is unfair (even cruel) to expect them to behave no worse than women do in this area.
See my analogy above.
Well I am blocking you again so bye. You choose to bicker with me personally on every single thread that I post and you insist on bringing up your whole issue of whether or not men are more drawn to porn, even on posts that have nothing to do with it. That’s not helpful to anyone on these threads as it makes the all about YOU! I do not know what your issue is with me. No I do not lie, and I do not misrepresent things. I post my opinion, and that is what this blog is about posting opinions and advice. Yours may be different than mine. Your argument also does not make any sense. Are you seriously saying that what should be told to addicts is that lying is permissible because sometimes the SOs will stay? So go ahead and lie? THe level of abject selfishness displayed in that is astounding, but not at all surprising from you. WTH is wrong with you? I do not wish to argue or speak to you about this anymore. You are like a broken record, over and over and over again. I am never going to agree with you so MOVE ON and stop personally attacking me. I a going to say this one more time LEAVE ME ALONE!!!!!! I will report yu to the admin if you attack me again.
This is a tough one.
My SO told me he had had an issue with PMO in the past and had gotten over it with the help of nofap/therapy etc.
He was fairly transparent...As transparent as one is willing to be only a couple months into the relationship, if that.
It's not like a guy can say on the first date "Yeah so I work for ____ , I enjoy rock music and comedic movies, and also... in the past i was addicted to adult chat rooms and pornography"
I also didn't disclose my history of abusive relationships and PTSD associated until the effects began to manifest themselves by way of irrational insecurities and fears.
He was as honest as he could be at the time.
I knew I was dating someone who had a porn issue (or did in the past) early on.
What I didnt take into account was his chance of relapse.
And I never considered the possibility that his past addictions would have long term eeffects (PIED)
His relapse was nowhere NEAR the scope of what he was into years ago and he saw the cycle and stopped it.
But still now I am dealing with it with him.
I don't feel at all trapped.
I known I can leave him if I want to. I know that I WILL if he goes down the rabbit hole completely.
So to answer your question,yes I feel it is important for an addict to be honest about their addiction whether active or in recovery. The truth is, regardless whether active or in recovery, she's gonna find out. Either she's going to catch you red handed or the effects of excessive porn or masturbation is going to show itself somehow (PIED, ED in general) and she's going to take the blame on herself.
I had no idea my SO was a PA until 25 years into our relationship 20 into our marriage. I'm not sure he really figured out he was a PA until about 3 months ago. Had I known he had issues for the past 40 years I may never have married him, who knows? Fact is I did and I'm not leaving him as he is putting in the work to recover. He knows the consequences of lying to me again.
As anyone can see if they read my posts to @GG2002 over the months, I do not attack her, I attack her claims.
This analogy is flawed because a high pitched voice doesn't make their SO suicidal, self-harm, depressed, etc. A high-pitched voice isn't a deep profound betrayal.
So what if men are aroused in the part of the brain that is visual, that does not excuse men to say, "I'm a man, of course I'm turned on if I see X, and I can't control myself." No.
For my husband and I it seems I am more inclined to notice attractive people, he is quite oblivious to his surroundings. I see men, and note their attractiveness, but it stops there. What you're saying is something like, "I'm a man, if I see something that is attractive I can't help but mentally undress them and want to fuck them, and I get so turned on I just have to go watch porn and satisfy myself." Come on, let's give men more credit than that. My husband hates how men are not given much credit and are just thought to be animals. Yes, men's arousal results from visual stimulation, but that Does Not mean visual stimulation will automatically mean he is turned on and cannot control himself. It is NOT cruel to expect a guy to be faithful and respectible, which is what it comes down to. If you're a guy who struggles to see women as people and not as sexual objects to get gratification from, don't get into a relationship. Just know you are weak and cannot ever be respectful in a relationship and be single and fuck many women if that's what you want to do since "it's cruel" to expect them to be decent human beings.
Men and women both have self-control. They both are 100% responsible for their actions. One may struggle a little more with something, but that doesn't mean it's unfair. It just means that person has a vulnerability to something.
My husband for instance cannot stop eating candy and sugar and junk food, whereas I am very diciplined and can resist tempations if you will. He has a vulnerability to sugar, so when I am being healthy should he feel it's unfair because he struggles with sugar more than I do when he has health issues eventually from his own eating habits? No, he just needs to be more vigilant and aware of his eating habits. Should he get a pass because he is vulnerable to sugar, and I should just let himself throw his health away? No. He is an adult and has to be responsible for the choices and actions he makes. But what he is vulnerable to isn't killing me and hurting me.
Point is, you can't compare porn to anything non-sexual because the analogy won't work with the level of pain that is caused to an SO with porn and sex addiction.
Porn and sex addiction is the only addiction to include infidelity. Do drugs and alcohol include you being sexually unfaithful (unless you cheat under the influence)? I don't think so. Having a high pitched voice includes being sexually unfaithful? No. So porn/sex addiction cannot be compared to non-sexual things.
And in regards to lying, lying is a deal breaker for many.
For me, I was clear, no lies (because honesty is the most important thing to me) and no porn( I struggle from anorexia hence the no porn), prior to getting in a relationship with my husband. He said that was fine. We are still together because I got pregnant (not the only reason, but part of it). It's harder to leave when there are real life big issues like children and finances that tie you to the other person.
So an addict (whether PMO or addiction to something else) may think, I should lie because I know/think/fear my partner doesn't approve of drinking, drugs, porn, gambling, cutting, etc. and then eventually they will fall in love with me, find out about my addiction, and will stay because they love me and will overlook all the abuse I did to them. It doesn't work like that. That's called Emotional Abuse and Manipulation. You don't do that to someone you love, unless you're deeply in your addiction and selfish and have no regard for the other person as an actual human being with feelings.
Possibilites to leaving and staying can include:
We stay after lies because of:
- We want to believe the man we fell for is in there somewhere
- We see the addict is in recovery and truly changing and getting healthy
We leave after lies because of:
-many relapses (possibly with lying accompanying those relapses)
- not doing recovery
-continuing of abuse (emotional, mental, sexual, or physical)
- We just have to take care of ourselves at the end of the day and not "die" for our partner who obviously doesn't see what is at stake
I really REALLY do not think most PA have any idea that they have a problem. I had no idea it would even be a problem for me. I watched porn in previous relationships and really even infrequently towards the very beginning of our relationship. I never even considered it would have an effect on my partner. I bet he didn't either. It wasn't until I used his laptop for something and one of the automatic drop down previous searches was something porn related when I realized it would bother me. Again, still pretty early in our relationship. I said, I'm not ok with this. I also stopped... Not that I had been viewing it regularly, or that any porn is ok, it was just the first time I really realized it was bad in a relationship because of how it made me feel. And I wasn't mad at all. So he wasn't trying to hide it. He thought he could just stop since had had never really tried before. And then he couldn't. And at first he was honest with me when he slipped. So he tried blocking himself on a shared router that he couldn't get to, and that failed. And then just so many things we thought would work didn't. And somewhere along the line (after we got married)he started lying. The first time I caught him after lying was over 8 years ago. And it was so hurtful because we made so many sacrifices at home (no internet) and yet he would just take the laptop to the library. And he lied. So so so many times. I very nearly left him. It was right before our first son's birthday. He went to counseling, I put a password on the laptop, he got rid of his smartphone. And that worked for 5 years. After 5 years he was so resentful of not having a smart phone. I looked into it and iPhones had restrictions which other smartphones didn't have. He was good with thst for about 8 months until he found some news app that let you search for Content. He even told me about it before it was a problem. I tried to figure out how to block that one app, but there isn't a way. So he said he thought he could deal with it and two days later he told me he used it to find scandalous pictures and M. I was really upset, but it only lasted about a week. And honestly, I felt like He finally had become honest with me and that meant we could be ok. Approximately 8 months after thst he found another loophole, which I will not share here. This time he didn't tell me. This time he lied for about 4 months. He said it was about 1 time per week and approximately a quarter of the time he would get to it, the compulsion to view p would be gone and he would close it ans be disgusted with himself. I found out just short of a year ago and am still realing from this. If HE would have told me, I would have been over this so much faster. I'd probably be fine. Instead I love in a constant state of fear and depression. He really did try to stop himself and took self control steps. I knew about those before I found out but I didn't know Why he was doing this. I just wish he would stay honest with me. I want to be with him forever and I want to heal. The more lies, the more difficult.
As a PA and also who was lying to his wife for a very long time, you were not misleading. Truth is most important, the longer PA waits for the worst it will be. The longer he waits, for her it another day he lied, if he waits a week he lied for a week, if he waits for a month he lied for a month and so on and so on. I learned it hard way, I wish I told my wife all the truth before I hit the rock bottom and before she caught me, maybe then I wouldn't wasted all those years hiding and lying, and maybe had happy and healthy marriage.