HOCD and porn induced homosexual fetishes: a complete guide for freedom

Discussion in 'Problematic Sexual Behavior' started by JustPassingBy01, Jul 6, 2020.

  1. OBY1999

    OBY1999 Fapstronaut

    Let me answer this with a question.
    If you was raised in a farm and never even seen pornography in your life, would you still think that you'd have these "attractions" towards men? If the answer is no then yes this is definetly a part of HOCD.
    When you browse porn you almost never "discover" your sexuality.

    You don't just wake up one day and say hey you know what I love boys now. If you are homosexual you'd know it in a very early stage in your life. I know many actual gay people my own brother included and they say that they had a boy crush in their school. They wanted to kiss a boy on the lips in elementary.
    If you always considered yourself as straight and you had a crush on a girl in your school then wtf do you want? Do you still need a better proof? There are plenty of new studies and enough evidence online that can show you just how much porn can fuck with your brain tricking you into thinking completely wrong.

    You know what? I bet there are a bunch of people out there that aren't even gay but became gay because of porn and a lack of understanding.
     
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  2. DrabToLight

    DrabToLight Fapstronaut

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    HOCD is real. It is a real way for homophobes to gay bash.

    See? No wall of text. God forbid a logical explanation is offered. Don't ever read anything that you disagree with. That way, you can continue to live in a world free of any truth.
     
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  3. DrabToLight

    DrabToLight Fapstronaut

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    Yes. Exactly. So, the solution is to STOP WATCHING PORN. Why? Because porn is causing the problem - you are a straight man. There is no reason to complicate the matter - NoFap has the solution and that solution is that porn changes your thinking and stopping porn returns you to normal.

    See? No reason to invent HOCD.

    So, don't stress it. Porn CANNOT make you gay. Psychology Today quotes: "HOCD remains largely unrecognized in the larger therapeutic community". It's not real. You are straight. Porn is a lie. Live in the real world.

    - D2L

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  4. JustPassingBy01

    JustPassingBy01 Fapstronaut

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    I won't enter in this debate with you because I've noticed that it would become an endless struggle, but I need to say something here for other people who are reading this: don't take Psychology Today as the 'ultimate and unquestionable masters' on this subject. I've seen them often denying the negative effects of porn on people's lives and this forum is the living proof that they're wrong.
    So I'd always take them with a grain of salt in this kind of subject.
     
  5. JustPassingBy01

    JustPassingBy01 Fapstronaut

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    I've posted this for another person in private messages but I think this applies to your case as well:

    These "what if" questions are OCD. Some people have thoughts like "what if I betray god?", "what if I'm a murderer?", "what if I'm attracted to kids?" etc. Your case is just a variation of that.
    I have already written about OCD in my guide. Honestly what's written there is all I have to offer in terms of recommendations. So I'd suggest you to read it again. And if that's not enough, maybe look for more information on OCD in general. Don't think that your case is special just because it's 'H'OCD, they're all OCD in the end.
    The OCD thoughts can really cause a huge stress, but you need to be strong and tell them to f#ck off. When you fear OCD is when it gets stronger, so get yourself some self-confidence, do exercises, pushups, drink lots of water and be healthy. Work on yourself to become a better man, specially in the moral sense. Be confident but respectful to others.
    When the thoughts pop up in your brain, you give them the middle finger.

    Do this for 2, 3, 4 months without rellapsing and you'll see the magic happening. The thoughts will start to dissipate, eventually coming back here and there but each time they appear they're weaker and easier to dismiss.

    Cheers
     
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  6. DrabToLight

    DrabToLight Fapstronaut

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    Yes, and since HOCD has been created by homophobic bigots. I take it with a grain of salt as well.

    The "debate" about HOCD is not an endless struggle. I'm right and that settles it.

    HOCD is a fake made up pathology. It is made up to create a reason that same-sex-sexuality and non-same-sex-sexuality are not equal - when in fact they are equal and real.

    -D2L

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  7. iwontfail67

    iwontfail67 Fapstronaut

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    It’s funny cause you’ve repeated yourself 100s of times and sound dumber each time.

    Stop getting triggered Darb. It’s not homophobic for a straight guy to not want to be gay.

    Youre the biggest idiot on this thread and everyone’s laughing at you Darby Darb Darb.
     
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  8. Maximus19

    Maximus19 Fapstronaut

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    Great post dude.

    Quick question, but did you ever struggle with Erectyle dysfunction when having sex with women, and also get kinda bored in regular sex at all? Cos that's what I've had a few times when trying to have vaginal sex, but when I do kinky stuff like facefucking, by cock is as hard as a rock. It really makes me depressed not being able to maintain an erection, or at times, not feeling aroused.
     
  9. JustPassingBy01

    JustPassingBy01 Fapstronaut

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    You've been feeding extreme and anxiety provoking sexual thoughts as a way to feel aroused. This is caused by hyperstimulation from porn.
    This is why you need a long break, let your brain rest. Don't consume any type of pornography, don't feed pornographic thoughts, anything. You really need to live like a monk for at least 3 months. I'm sorry but this is the only way I can see you finding normal sex arousing again.
     
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  10. DrabToLight

    DrabToLight Fapstronaut

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    Hey @Maximus19 ,

    Stopping porn is the only way I was able to realign my expectations with reality.

    Porn is a lie and I found that once I stopped watching porn, the lie took quite a while to go away. So, I suffered from lots of ED.

    However, little by slow as I did a standard reboot, I found the ability to maintain an erection with my girlfriend returned. In the real world, I have everything I need next to me in bed and I do not need the world of lies that porn represents.

    As Ms. Franklin (look it up) would say, R E S P E C T.

    My experience was that watching porn with lube in one hand and a mouse in the other was a direct insult to my girlfriend. Of course, our sex life not only declined because of my ED but, sex also suffered because after masturbating to the lie of porn, I wasn't much in the mood for real-life sex. I found our relationship was suffering in other areas as well because of the lack of activity under the sheets.

    I also find two things that have been true on NoFap.

    First, I've gotten the best advice from people who tell me their experience rather than telling me what I should do. I like to hear other's experience, strength, and hope and not what they think I should do.

    Second, I look at the involvement in the group of the person who is responding to my post. It is not a perfect system but, I look at the number of likes and the number of posts the person has. I've found that if a person has only a few posts and fewer likes, I tend to not give as much credence to their posts.

    I've not found "advice" where a person is telling me what I should do nearly as helpful as when someone tells me what is working for them personally.

     
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  11. Maximus19

    Maximus19 Fapstronaut

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    Thanks for the reply dude :).

    So I hope you don't mind, but could I probe you on a few things?

    Firstly, when you were having sex, did you ever find it boring and tiring, because this is how I felt when trying to have sex with this woman the other day. The first time we had sex that day (only last a few mins), it was better than the rest, but I came after only a few mins.

    Secondly, how long did your reboot take? Did you do the whole 90 days?

    Thirdly, what would you recommend to a guy (me) who doesn't have a girlfriend, but who really wants to have sex again once my reboot is done? I heard that in many successful case studies, having sex after was actually required as part of the healing process.

    Last but not least, what piece of advice would you give regarding anxiety about sexuality due to having occasional gay fantasies (acted out on it once) which are confusing because I don't find men visually or romantically attractive, and having this combined with not being able to perform with a woman? You see the horrible combo here, on one hand I can get aroused by certain gay fantasies, but can't perform optimally in the bedroom. This naturally makes me think I'm gay or bisexual, but then this doesn't add up given what I said about not finding men visually or romantically attractive.
     
  12. DrabToLight

    DrabToLight Fapstronaut

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    Hey @Maximus19 ,

    Whew. That was a lot. I will try to answer as many as I can.

    Yes. I love my girlfriend and when we first got together the sex was amazing. Well, for me most sex was amazing before porn.

    I say "the lie of porn" because it is all a lie. Most people in real life don't look like porn actors, they don't have sex with the plumber or pizza man, and they don't just hop in bed after licking on a lollipop. It is all a lie.

    So, after porn, yes. I found sex boring and tiring and would start to lose my erection. To regain the erection I would think about porn while having sex with my girlfriend. Think about how insulting that was to her. I wasn't really worried about if she was feeling good or if her needs were being met. I was so worried about losing my erection, I would just hope that thinking of porn would get me to the end. Of course, she noticed and of course she thought it was her. It was not her, it was the lies that porn spun in my head.

    One thing you said that I noticed was that you had sex more than one time with the lady you were with. I know that some guys can have sex multiple times a day and it works for them. But, like you, I find that if I try to have sex more than once a day, it isn't as good for me the second time. I have to admit it has been a very long time since I've tried more than twice in the same day. That isn't porn, that is just getting older.

    Regarding having watched gay porn. Every guy with a mouse and a laptop has seen gay porn. I'm not sure I agree with the argument that all porn is gay porn because there is a penis involved but, some do make that argument.

    If you find women attractive and want to have sex with women, you are a straight man.

    I have a friend who tells this story and I don't know if it is true. He tells it the same way every time. So, it most likely is true.

    He had a friend in school and they were close friends since childhood. His buddy told him that he was gay. He kinda freaked out about it. Was his friend hitting on him? Then he thought, "holy s**t, he's seen me naked." So, he freaks out about it and told his gay friend, "hey, don't ever try any of that gay stuff on me." His friend look at him as if he had three heads and said, "of course not, you're not my type." Then, he said he wanted to know exactly why he wasn't his type, what type was his type, why didn't his friend find him attractive?

    So, you see, most guys freak out about "gay stuff" until they realize it's kinda normal to peak across the other side of the fence and watch the other team play a few times.

    Still, I am playing for "team straight". I can't really give you advice on how not to worry about it. So, I will offer this experience instead.

    Sex was all about me in my younger days. It was about how I felt. I wondered why I couldn't keep a girlfriend or find one. I learned to make sex about her. First, I had to find out about anatomy - exactly where was everything on a female? Anatomy was like a basic user's guide. To get to the advanced stuff, I had to ask her how I was doing, where should I ... you get the point. I had to learn to please her because just pleasing myself wasn't working.

    I'm glad Internet porn wasn't around then. We did have magazines and videos but, they were far tamer and not as addicting because when you had read the magazine it was over. There weren't a billion more vid clips to find.

    So, after porn, I did the 90 day no porn no masturbation reboot. This is for me and not a part of NoFap, I also have a "rule" not to think about former favorite porn while masturbating or having sex with my girlfriend. I think masturbation is perfectly healthy for me and sometimes my girlfriend is not available. So, it works but, with only thinking about real life.

    I don't know if I got to all of your questions. Still, hope that helped.

    D2L
     
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  13. engelman

    engelman Fapstronaut

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    Great post @JustPassingBy01. Posts like this could be quite useful to some people with the same problem. I never had doubts or anxiety because I get quite excited with transgender P (gay P is not so exciting to me) or because I always had my own not-P-induced fetishes.

    I haven't read it all though. The answers were more .... interesting ;)

    You'll never acquire knowledge ... from a group in which everybody thinks the same about a topic. You'll get knowledge from different people, different experiences, opinions and ideas ...

    @DrabToLight , I don't know if HOCD is real or not, but there are people suffering because of this, and you know it's easier to treat it ... when you always use a common label to define all that suffering. Also liked your posts, btw.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2020
  14. Maximus19

    Maximus19 Fapstronaut

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    Awww thanks so much for replying mate, this really means a lot (and apologies for the long winded message to begin with).

    And yes, I did manage to maintain an erection the first time with her, but I came within 3 or 4 mins. The sex after that really did little for me, and I just felt tired and uninterested. What did get me hard was facefucking her (apologies for the crudeness).

    And has the reboot beneficially impacted your regular sex life? By that I mean not only are you are more aroused (and enjoying sex more), but you can keep an erection for longer, and also have sex more than once?

    For me, being able to perform normally like I used to (when I say used to, I have suffered from erectile dysfunction many times throughout my life, but I have been able to have great sex too, but more often than not, I wouldn't be able to maintain an erection) will really help me solve my problem Imo, as it will bring more 'clarity' to me which in turn will make me less anxious and more sure of myself. I have Aspergers Syndrome, and one thing which is typical of people like me is that our anxiety is through the roof, and we tend to really hate confusion. So given how I have been able to get aroused by 'certain' gay fantasies, the combo of not being able to perform with a woman has naturally made me question my sexuality, bring me a lot of grief.

    Let's put it this way - I find women so beautiful and attractive. Men don't compare at all. So this is why I am so upset as things haven't been working optimally in the bedroom :(.

    I'm just very nervous for the future tbh. I'm scared that a 90 day reboot won't help. But I do need to try it.

    Any other words of wisdom would be most welcome.

    Thanks again.
     
  15. DrabToLight

    DrabToLight Fapstronaut

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    Hey @Maximus19 ,

    I'm not so sure my words all in the "wisdom" range. More like experience, strength, and hope.

    For 100pct sure a 90 day reboot helped me. Looking back on it, just getting rid of the lie of porn was the majority of the reason it helped. I mentioned above that after the reboot, I do masturbate if my girlfriend is not around. My own rule is that I cannot think of porn while wanking. I really feel that there is little difference between watching porn and thinking about an old favorite porn vid I liked.

    I know that anxiety and ED happen together. Even anxiety or worry about life, in general, can cause ED for me. When I was heavy into the lie of porn, real sex wasn't matching up and ED was a huge problem. As I said, I would think about porn while having sex.

    Porn is fake, a lie, pixels on a screen made and edited to make the impossible seem real. Yet, there I was with the real thing in bed with me - a perfect angel of a girlfriend - and I had to think about the crap on the Internet to keep an erection? Porn was hurting me, messing with my expectations.

    @Maximus19 , you are so right. I like the way you explain the cycle of ED and anxiety. Porn fucked with my mind and made me think it was the way real sex should be. Then, when real sex wasn't like the lie of porn, I lost my wood. It's embarrassing and confusing. The excuse that "it happens to all men" wasn't making me feel any better at all. Then, I would watch more porn because I didn't lose my bone while wanking to porn - if I did go soft, I could click to the next vid and magically there was my erection again.

    But, in real life, there is no way to click to the next. The beautiful perfect lady that is my girlfriend was there in bed with me and I couldn't keep an erection because I was so used to being able to see the next vid of the billions that are online.

    The anxiety started the ED which created more anxiety which made ED even more likely.

    I've known people with Asperger's Syndrome. I know the spectrum varies and for some worry is such a burden. I've also noticed that other emotions are heightened as well - such as love and friendship. I belong to a couple of other self-help groups and when meeting in person, every type of person shows up. So, I've learned to embrace differences. We aren't meeting in person right now but, one group is meeting via zoom. It's not the same but, it's good.

    I'm old enough that all I have to do is ask for a prescription for Cialis and the doctor will write it for me. So, I do take it sometimes. Especially when my anxiety levels are high. It is not a magic pill and ED can still happen even with a little help from Cialis. Cialis only works if the mind is stimulated.

    I really can't give you experience on how to stop high anxiety form Asperger's Syndrome. My best experience is that I do best in bed when I make it my mission that my girlfriend has a great time.

    You mentioned having your lady give you oral sex (you used a different phrase) and how much you enjoyed it the point of being able to avoid ED. Yes. Oral sex is awesome. But, with respect. I like to be pretty passive when she does that for me - after all, she is a real person and not pixels on my computer screen.

    Also, she reminds me that oral sex is a two-way street. If I take it slow when "returning the favor" of oral sex, it is very helpful. You mentioned in your first post that vaginal sex only lasted about 5 minutes (if I remember correctly). That is somewhere near normal for most men. Circumcised men* or wearing a rubber helps increase that time. Being circumcised as an infant, I can last longer than five minutes. Wearing a rubber makes it almost impossible for me to reach orgasm from vaginal sex alone. However, I never really know how much time it will take me to "finish" and sometimes it's much faster than other times.

    So, paying very careful attention to her with my hands and oral sex, makes me feel far more confident. I don't have to keep an erection to use my fingers on her and giving her oral sex helps me start to get an erection. My girlfriend frequently reminds me that women can have multiple orgasms as a matter of course - I take that as a hint to go slow at first and make sure she has her fair share of orgasms before I have my turn because I am after only one orgasm.

    My best experience is that sex with a beautiful woman (and all women are beautiful) is about far far more than vaginal sex and that if I relax into it and concentrate on her, I end up having a much better experience.

    D2L

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    * I am in no way suggesting you consider circumcision as a way to improve your sex life. Circumcision used to be done to help stop the spread of diseases. Today, however, there are vaccines for almost all of those diseases such as HPV (penile and cervical cancer) has a vaccine, Hep A and B both have vaccines, Hep C has a cure, HIV can be prevented with a condom and taking a pill called PrEP (one pill once a day has been shown to be nearly 100% effective in stopping HIV). Syphilis and Goneraha are getting more difficult to cure in some cases - yet, so far, there has never been a case that hasn't been cured. Make sure your vaccines are up to date and use a condom. Also, there is a sweet name for men who don't like using a condom and that name is the daddy - condoms also prevent babies.
     
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  16. Maximus19

    Maximus19 Fapstronaut

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    Thanks once again for your words of wisdom.

    One question regarding something you said though - when saying that you focus on giving your girlfriend a good time, I've heard that this can actually have the opposite effect, and put more pressure on the man. Maybe it is just me, but whenever I feel the need to please a woman for a longer period or in a way where my penis stays erect for a long time, this actually leads to ED. My counsellor actually said that I need to be a bit more selfish in bed (in a good way) as focusing on the partner can sometimes make sex very mechanical and not fluid.

    With regards to your comments on oral sex, I used another name as there is a type of oral sex which is quote hardcore and extreme which I have been obsessed about my whole life as a result of porn. It is called facefucking as you fuck a woman mouth as you would a womans vagina (so it goes deep), and this always makes me incredibly hard. Of course I only do this when the woman enjoys it (and she did), however the sad thing is I want to be this hard when having vaginal sex too.

    Another thing I don't think I mentioned was that as nice as this woman was, she wasn't 100 percent my type. She had a nice face, but was a bit more on the chubby side, and for this reason I was a bit adverse to giving her oral sex for some reason. I've actually never been that interested in giving a woman oral, however I did meet this once girl last year who had a beautiful vagina, and I really enjoyed giving her oral. So I guess my question is, could the fact that this woman wasn't my ideal type be a reason for not being that aroused after the first ejaculation I had? This would make sense, however then again, I haven't been able to perform with few really beautiful women before either. Very confusing.
     
  17. DrabToLight

    DrabToLight Fapstronaut

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    Hey @Maximus19 ,

    Oddly, I find it relaxing and that it puts less to no pressure me. Perhaps it's because I'm not worried about giving myself a good time which would involve having an erection. If I keep thinking about if I will have ED during foreplay, it creates an anxiety loop for me. So, since there is only one other person in the bed, I start by concentrating on her. I'm sure you can figure out what that involves. Also, perhaps it is different from being with a girlfriend the first time.

    Your counselor has a valid point regarding sex not being mechanical. In fact, that was a big problem when I was watching the lies in porn. I would concentrate not having ED, then think about porn and more or less just be grateful if I finished without ED. It became pretty grim and my girlfriend thought it was her and it wasn't.

    No two straight me will ever make love to a woman exactly the same way. So, I can tell you what works in our bed but, that might not work for you at all. In general, I relax and I know we are great kissers. Then, I can use my hands gently and softly. The pressure to "preform" is not there for those activities. Plus, it's very fun for me as I like touching her.

    You will find your own pace. And, yes, physical attraction is super important. I know I say all women are beautiful and I really believe that. That does not mean I am sexually attracted to all women and I would have a difficult time with ED if I weren't attracted to a lady. Luckily, I am very attracted to my girlfriend.

    Hope that helped. The YMMV comes to mind in this post more than any of my others.

    D2L
    .
     
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  18. Greenarrow1159

    Greenarrow1159 Fapstronaut

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    Makes sense didn't start suffering until Years after I started watching porn and I only watch straight porn and have HOCD. Before porn I had many girlfriends. It’s like something snapped after viewing porn. Also another cause of my HOCD In second grade someone asked if I was gay, I was like what’s that they assumed because I was just always a happy bubbly kid then I tell you people every year would ask me are you gay? No!, No! It became a habit telling people I’m not gay; it really bothered me people would think that of me no offense to the gay community respect to all. It just tore me up. I guess it really got to me making me want to avoid people; crazy to this day someone will be like can I ask you something? ; in my thoughts I’m like oh boy they’re gonna ask if I’m gay I bet; it would be a relief when they didinT ask. Once I lost my virginity in high school to a girl it made me feel better especially knowing my friends knew my real sexual orientation, but usually when people don’t know me they assume I’m gay due to my looks I have a female twin and we’re both attractive people classify me as pretty boy spiked hair dresses neat and clean very conservative, I’m more comfortable around girls than guys due to the torment guys would give, I guess it really fucked with me especially being an Aquarius always in my head. It’s harder for me to make male friends than female friends. Many guys get close to me though so they can hook up with my twin sister, I just recently had my first sleepover with my guy friends who are triplets my first real group of friends; was a weekend to remember nothing like hanging out with the broskis; unfortunately that didn't last long because one of the triplets used me for my sister bummer! Gahhh! Fuck people anyone who needs friends I got family and myself; oh and this community.and due to the years of torment I avoided all relationships, only an aquatinted type of guy friends all over but none close enough to hang with outside of school. I’m ready to get clean and find me a girlfriend I can stick with
    Through everything.
     
  19. Hclo

    Hclo New Fapstronaut

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    So Drab to Light (or whatever), you’re basically claiming HOCD is false and HOCD treatment is essentially a form of conversion therapy? To say such a thing would be completely discrediting the homosexual community with HOCD, which is homophobic on your part. Yes they exist too, I know a handful of them. They’re people who have been gay their entire life and have known so, yet one day start obsessing over the possibility of them being straight. Just like straight HOCD sufferers, they go through the anxiety, the need to compulsively check arousal, rumination, etc. HOCD treatment isn’t meant to convert anyone it’s meant to reaffirm one’s sexual orientation. By your definition, you’d also be dismissing other subtypes of OCD like pedophile OCD, transgender OCD, harm OCD, etc. Sure these acronyms are essentially internet created terms and wouldn’t be found in the DSM-5, but what is found in the DSM-5 is OCD and Pure OCD. And it’s known by hopefully every psychologist that OCD fixates on a certain theme (the poster boy for OCD being contamination OCD, cue the hand washing). Some themes involve harm, some involve religious scrupulously, some being sexual, etc.
     
  20. Maximus19

    Maximus19 Fapstronaut

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    I may be wrong, but I don't think he is refuting that there are men who are confused about their sexuality due to the influence of porn, combined with other societal factors (religious guilt, upbringing etc). I think he is more challenging the original motives behind HOCD.

    When it comes to me personally, I actually subscribe to a lot of the characteristics of HOCD. I have been a chronic porn user since my early teenage years, but also have Aspergers Syndrome, meaning that I have always been a massive over thinker and dweller, so much so that I am almost positive I have OCD too (I can never let go of things, and always have to analyse constantly). However, I am not too familiar with who first coined the term or literature behind HOCD, so @DrabToLight could have a point insofar as the term was formulated to bash homosexuality. I haven't read too much into this, so I would have to read more before I support his position too.

    But I will say this - regardless if a position or solution is formulated with less than admirable motives, if it truly resonates with you, helps you and makes perfect sense in your mind, then don't let anyone tell you it is false. Human psychology, physiology and neurology are WAYYYYYYYYY too complex and untapped for people to make rigid statements about them (from either side). What we should be, however, is nuanced and balanced in our analyses. So if HOCD is indeed designed for gay bashing, then recognise this and call it out, but if it also makes very good points, then recognise these too.

    This is perhaps the best analogy to convey my views:

    "I absolutely love Michael Jackson's music. It always got me in the mood to dance, and his softer songs always helped to relax me and make me sleepy. However, the evidence is near overwhelming that the man was a pedophile and sexually abused children, and therefore I despise him as a person as this is pure despicable evil. But will my dislike of the man takeaway from the 'fact' that his music still sounds amazing, and helps me get to sleep? No."
     

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