HOCD, tranny, sissy explained - PMO as a bisexual/homosexual act

Discussion in 'Problematic Sexual Behavior' started by ultrafabber, Dec 13, 2019.

  1. ultrafabber

    ultrafabber Fapstronaut

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    I am not saying you are homosexual if you jerk off (i am intentionally using "jerk off" instead of "masturbation", see * at the bottom). You can become one if all you do is watch "straight porn" and jerk off and real sex is 0 or next to 0. I'd say that in most cases you just ended up a bisexual because of jerking off.

    First, some numbers that you should be aware of. We already know that bisexual/homosexual people start jerking off at younger ages than heterosexual people and that they jerk off more than the heterosexual ones. We also know that the more porn you watch, the more likely it is you identify as bisexual. https://forum.nofap.com/index.php?threads/pmo-as-a-bisexual-homosexual-behavior.253966/

    This will make sense when you keep reading.

    Why am i saying all of this and why am i giving you those numbers? Because both watching "straight porn" and jerking off are not heterosexual activities but rather bisexual/homosexual ones and the numbers confirm it.

    I will start with the easier part, porn. If you take a moment and look at it from a wider perspective, watching porn is a very weird act. Not only that, but a very NEW act, as your ancestors almost never watched others have sex, let alone jerk off to it. As a side note, do you know how many erect penises of other men has your grandfather seen? Most likely none. Do you know how many erect penises of other men have you (while being sexually aroused) seen? Probably thousands.

    What happens in "straight porn" is that you have two stimuli: a very desirable one (willing, naked woman, vocalizations etc) and a very UNDESIRABLE one. The man and his erection. And the fact that the woman you are attracted to gets f by someone else. This alone should be a major turn off, not a turn on. But the positive stimuli is very strong and it makes you compromise to accepting the undesirable ones (the naked erect man and the fact that the woman you want gets f).

    So what you end up with is basically heterosexual stimuli and homosexual stimuli. You are in a state of sexual arousal but are exposed to both stimuli. This alone is very problematic as it wires you away from an exclusive heterosexual arousal. An exclusive heterosexual arousal would be a woman stripping for you.

    Now for the worst offender, jerking off itself. Sure, we think about a woman but what do we actually feel? We feel a penis. Not a replica, a real, live, warm, erect penis. We like to think we ignore it but your whole sensory input screams it's there. Not only are you sexually aroused holding a penis, to get more sexually aroused you stroke that penis harder. Eventually having the most pleasurable experience people can experience, orgasm (which is similar to heroin) with a penis in your hand. And on top of that you see another man and his erect penis on screen.

    This is classical conditioning or the Pavlovian response at play. I've written about this in greater detail here https://forum.nofap.com/index.php?t...itioning-of-accepting-other-dicks-men.249346/ and here https://forum.nofap.com/index.php?t...stroking-a-penis-than-getting-stroked.252253/ It's not that a penis directly does something for you, it is that you associate it, both visually and most importantly sensorially with the highest form of pleasure you can get. This is in direct contrast with real sex, where you would rarely if ever get to feel "penis" for more than a couple of seconds and where 99% of the time you feel a woman.

    With porn and jerking off you integrate the penis as essential to your sexual pleasure and sexual arousal. In some way, the penis becomes the physical representation of a woman and of a vagina.

    I strongly believe that the compulsiveness happens because you highly reject this conditioning and you simply have to jerk off to release the very unpleasant sexual tension that comes with your bisexuality. You jerk off to get rid of your (partly) homosexual tendencies. The problem is that the more you do it, the more you feed into it and the more you have to jerk it off away.

    HOCD, tranny, sissy all share the same common factor - a penis that became part of your sexual response. Of all of them the tranny stuff is the most interesting and obvious one because it encapsulates exactly what "straight porn" trains you for - male and female parts combined. All of them come with a sexual identity problem as well. You can see this partly confirmed by a poll i created here: https://forum.nofap.com/index.php?t...nes-that-escalated-to-gay-trans-stuff.251683/ . Half the people affected identified as the passive (receiver of penis) side.

    I hope that this will help people struggling with this problem and that this will be a warning for those that pmo. HOCD/tranny/sissy is not a random effect, it is absolutely expected to happen the more you pmo and the less real sex you have. If you started your "sex life" with PMO rather than real sex, you are already at much higher risk than a person that started normally and then picked up PMO. If you watched "straight porn" exclusively and from a younger age you are more at risk than if you watched solo women only. If you watched DP or multiple men with a woman, you are more at risk. Same thing for interracial where the male is different than you and so on.

    If you have problems with real sex and you need to watch porn or stroke your own penis, what you're missing is the homosexual INPUT you got conditioned to need. You're faced with a 100% heterosexual act (sex with a woman) and she does not have everything that you need (vagina and penis), she only has one part.

    *Just for the record, "jerk off" mentioned here refers to using your hand to stroke your penis. It is intentionally used instead of "masturbation". Yes it is technically masturbation but not the same as let's say humping a silicone sleeve. Humping the sleeve would not be a homosexual act because you no longer stroke or feel a penis.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2019
  2. Esalawaa

    Esalawaa Fapstronaut

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    Oh men you have helped me a lot !! Thank you so much now everything make sense. So helpful thank you again !
     
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  3. Jorics

    Jorics Fapstronaut

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    Great post

    I get at the same conclusion as you, that's why i stopped hand masturbation and porn completely. Also i buy a fleshlight and imagine i am f*cking some girls i know while using it. Only after 3 weeks of it i am starting to feeling my brain changind to a more 'natural and balanced' state.

    Like you said i started watching straight porn and masturbation at very young age (10 yo), at 13 yo i started having homoerotic thoughs and started watching gay porn. I am currently a 22 yo virgin with social anxiety, confidence issues and depression. I am plaining to get right of those and get a beatiful gf.
     
  4. ultrafabber

    ultrafabber Fapstronaut

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    Thank you, very interesting. Could you tell me more on your thought process when you reached this conclusion?
     
  5. Jorics

    Jorics Fapstronaut

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    Look years ago i was into sissy hypno. They use something called "cock confusion" they show you images of big d*cks alternating with images of very hot girls. It's a trick to confuse your mind and started to get aroused with big d*cks.

    I poisoned my mind with that kind of content and during that time i only fantasied about sucking d*cks and being f*cked by other men. The idea vanilla sex with women doesn't do nothing for me. But in real life i don't find men sexy or attractive never. I was still looking at girl's asses in the street and so on. It was only in my mind when i was horny.

    I was supposed to want to f*cks girls. But my minds was posined and confused by porn and masturbation. So first i get at the obvious conclusion that i need to stop porn and masturbation. But it was not enough, i need to teach my mind again what i was supposed to like (what i like before geting into sissy porn). As a virgin lonely male with several mental issues geting a girl and experience the real thing is almost imposible to me in this exact time. That's why i buy a fleshlight and started to fantasie only about me f*cking real girls, while also stop the homoerotic thoughs
     
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  6. Michelangelio

    Michelangelio New Fapstronaut

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    I recently found NoFap and would like to contribute my understanding.

    There is probably a psychology behind it however our brains are also not as advanced as we would hope, were still very behavioral!

    My opinion, is that sissy addiction is the result of social isolation, low self esteem, porn addiction, and possibly other mental health issues such as anxiety,
    depression, poor parenting.

    When someone gets into "sissy" it's a form of disassociation. Disassociation can last for hours days etc and can take a while to snap out of it too! Use your five senses and do something nice for yourself to break out of immediate behavior, then masturbate (see below).

    Join groups (church / social / addiction) attend in Person. Become very social and active, fill your schedule. If your not social volunteer somewhere.

    Purchase lube and masturbate immediately when you are horny (obviously privately) but no porn, get in touch with yourself and masturbate slowly and enjoy it (can also schedule this).

    Schedule moderate muscle building workouts to increase tosterone.

    Don't fight the "sissy" urge, it makes it seem like it has more power than it does, you can do it if it makes you feel good as a person, if it doesn't it's not good for you and you can choose to stop too. You can. Work with a therapist to Change your perspective on the so called "benefits" if desired.

    The key is to stay out of the dissassociative state and intentionally schedule a lot of nice things to do for your self. Treat yourself like a good friend.

    Apparently people say it takes at least two months for new habits to be built. So take it easy on yourself , be intentional and consistant daily schedule & social social social, schedule to schedule , seek professional help if needed/desired.
     
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  7. ultrafabber

    ultrafabber Fapstronaut

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    Well that sounds like "regular straight porn" where we are forced to see dicks from all different positions.. and men too".

    This kind of juxtaposition is the foundation of the Pavlovian response.

    Yes, i do think that you have to retrain your mind for tge real thing, just waiting to forget such powerful conditioning of porn is not enough.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2019
  8. sigfridox

    sigfridox Fapstronaut

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    I've always wanted to watch lonely women masturbating and lesbian scenes say to 70%, for a while I was attracted to POV 20% and 10% trans, but then with trans she felt nausea in my stomach. Am I bisexual too?
     
  9. Rustcan45

    Rustcan45 Fapstronaut

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    Truly an interesting read. When you had discussed masturbation being a homosexual act on a thread I had just previously made; I was hesitant to believe you. I'm still not exactly sure if I agree with your statements correlating with masturbation being homosexual or not. Yet here in this thread you made very well informed and articulate points that would be difficult to say otherwise. I would like to hear from you about how one would go about eradicating their newly installed homosexual fetishes and revert back to normal.
     
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  10. AntiqueRevolverGuy

    AntiqueRevolverGuy Fapstronaut

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    I agree. I'm not sure if I think masturbation is a homosexual act, but in some cases it definitely does lead to homosexual behaviors; too many people have escalated to bisexual-homosexual tendencies as a result of their PMO addiction.

    I felt it when Jorics talked about his experience. It's when I'm really horny that I begin to feel bi-sexual, and even tell some people such. But when I'm in public, or after I orgasmed, I don't feel that way at all.
    What happened to me is I was manipulated by a wanna-be trans. They introduced themselves as a girl , started roleplaying with me, etc. then later on revealed they were a man, but they threatened suicide on me several times and what not. So I was forced to stay with this person, and the sexual relationship continued.
    It messed me up because since then I've had bi-sexual tendencies. Like sometimes I want to talk to a gay person. Or sometimes I look at lady-boy stuff. There's something about it that's just so hedonistic. Sometimes I even tell people (who are part of the young crowd) that I'm bi-sexual just to get them to like me, because being gay is "cool now".
    Deep down I know i'm not, I'm not that kind of person and I don't want to be. Putting the bi-sexual mask on is like the ultimate "I'm a horny son of a bitch and I want to fuck" act you could do. And I've noticed it with other young men as well who are into hentai, and other forms of porn. They seek girlfriends, but they identify as Bi-sexual.
     
  11. Im not gay or bi , but I can say porn has definitely warped our perceptions .

    Put it this way how many guys cum when there is the famous money shot, when the guy finishes over the girl's face,

    What do you think that is, your literally cumming when another guy does

    Porn really is gay . YOU aren't necessarily gay , because porn conditions behaviours , you aren't gay in real life , but what you are actually watching is partially gay
    I wouldn't completely say that it is though, because unless your actually aroused and thinking over the guy it's not , it just has elements in it, but if your straight it really for the majority who watched porn don't care.


    I can see if you where gay it myt trigger you to eventually seeking out men, but you would actually have to be gay , not just jerk off watching conditioned finish signal that you'd warped into your head

    If your worried about turning bisexual or gay then that's another story . It would seem many go to shemale etc because that's where it eventually leads to but and ends apparently if your straight .

    Gay men go for actual men .

    But yes you can see how the hole depraved disgusting twisted mess will warp perceptions for so many years in a world of fantasy that bisexual behaviours can eventually occur like watching shemale .but as far as I know and I can say for myself , this is when the wheels fall off, you don't go any further . I would assume if you are actually compelled which I am 100% not to go further then you are likely gay .

    You could say if you went down the road to the dead end and ended up with shemale , that it could be bisexual , but it really depends on the perspective that led you there and what your perspective is when you watch it .

    It all leads from watching shit tonnes of heterosexual sex between a man a women .
    And has eventually warped the scene .

    Many of us I am sure wish it was never something we ever had an interest in. But the good news is it doest exist , i made a thread earlier about how i believe my interest has been shattered .

    Porn and your interests on.there seem to be false In real life they can have two separate lives , simply because of all those years of conditioning.

    I've watched shemale porn but I would never ever get with one , and sure as hell would never get with a male, so I'm not entirely sure what you would call this I don't class it as bi , it is disgusting and I don't party like it but I have previously, to me it's porn induced rather than sexual orientation.

    My sexual orientation is straight and I have always liked /loved and still do think about and act , on possibilities .

    Shemales are not on my radar and men you can guarantee aren't either .

    For me it isn't a case of bi gay or straight , its more an issue with long-term porn use , for me the two live separate lives . I am not interested in half the shit i see In porn,

    Porn for sure has tweaked people's thoughts , but it doesn't just turn you gay .

    But for sure if you don't want to start watching all sorts of weird shit and enjoy your life as a normal human being between you and your partner male or female it would definitely be better for you overall..that wasting time watching all this perverse shit , and people questioning there sexuality a etc

    About 10 -15 years ago there was none of the bizzare twisted shit that is about today , plenty of people watched straight porn and didn't just turn gay or develop bi behaviours , most people don't care if they see a male dick , unless your sexually aroused by it .
    This other shit out today shemales etc , where people are spending 10000s on surgery taking hormones and looking like biological women .

    Or any of this other stuff personally I don't get anything from sissy porn that shit is just far beyond the pale , a women that has a dick is disgusting and only a few but its a bizzare thing that has blow up apparently.

    But the rest it's just bizzare .

    To be frankly honest NoFap really is the best thing for many of us

    As the waters are getting to murky . I can deft see what your saying but the whole thing but I don't think its as clear as that,

    I'm not gay or bi, but I can see how porn and the long-term use and free availability of some fucked up shit has led me to here

    NoFap all the way ?
     
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  12. sigfridox

    sigfridox Fapstronaut

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    I am ITALIAN, and I don't find any Italians here on NOFAP, they are, I think rare. In Italy sex is taboo, much more than in the Anglo-Saxon countries. In truth there is perverse sex, but then we do not take action to form groups like this, for help and help. This is my experience, unfortunately also passed through a serious family incest incident with my natural mother, which required me years of analysis, prayer and meditation.

    I completely agree with Ultrafabber's thesis. I started with straight porn, then I limited myself to lesbian porn, still my favorite today, but over time I degenerated towards more perverse forms, up to the hermaphordite and very strong trans. Then I wanted to experience situations of double penetration on women and then penetration on myself alone and with trans. Shit, guys, just bad shit that hurts the body, the mind and especially the soul, for those who believe in the soul, of course. I still do not feel total nausea for that deviant porn, I hope at the moment of my recovery to experience total disgust.
     
  13. Jnuts

    Jnuts Fapstronaut

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    I started reading this post and couldn’t keep my eyes from rolling...but I kept reading and I do believe you hit the nail on the head.

    Why do I have an overwhelming cum fetish? My do I ask my wife to force me to deep throat a dildo from time to time? Why was the urge to watch her with another man so strong?

    I am not nor have I ever been attracted to men. Gay porn does nothing for me and I find it revolting (no offense...you do you...just not for me). I always had an overwhelming sense of shame after having my wife do these acts.

    Fucking bingo. I’ve trained my brain to be turned on by the completely wrong things by consuming insane amounts of porn. It completely makes sense why these urges are already dying.
     
  14. untunedguitar

    untunedguitar Fapstronaut

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    You hit the nail on the head with this one. 100% agreed. Early fapper too. I've had some homoerotic fantasies before while growing up and they were so bizarre to me. I also remember being fascinated with my own penis from a very young age. And it all makes sense now, you think you are just jerking off to the girl but you are actually getting the excitement from the full picture. No wonder I never got into girl on girl, it always had to be straight porn or nothing.

    edit: I love your posts!
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2020
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  15. Neurostudent

    Neurostudent Fapstronaut

    For those asking how to remove these urges. The fact of the matter is, you can't. There is no, "unlearning," process in the brain. However, with that being said, you can vastly weaken these associations in the brain with abstinence, as well as replacing the associative chain.

    So for example:
    1. You've associated penis with arousal
    2. Abstain from sexuality for long enough for the association to weaken (60 - 90 days, at absolute least 30, at absolute most 120, imo)
    3. You engage in normal sex with a woman
    4. You begin to associate woman with arousal
    The longer you engage in normal sex with a woman, the stronger the association between woman and arousal will be and the weaker the association between penis and arousal will be. After a long enough period of time it will take an extreme absence of woman and extreme presence of penis to reverse this process.

    Key Points:
    1. Commit to NoFap
    2. Get experience with real life partners
     
  16. Rustcan45

    Rustcan45 Fapstronaut

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    This is completely false. You can definitely remove associations to fetishes. I've done it twice to two entirely different omes from one another and haven't went back to either of them even once.
     
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  17. Neurostudent

    Neurostudent Fapstronaut

    The issue is that the associations are still there neurologically speaking. There is no such thing as unlearning something in the natural functioning of the nervous system. Once it is there it is always there. As I said though, the association can be weakened and replaced to such a degree that it would take time for it to return. This is why an addict would have much difficulty returning to their substance of choice without falling back into the addictive pattern.
     
  18. sigfridox

    sigfridox Fapstronaut

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    One thing is the synaptic tangle, the neural highway formed by behavior, the certain one remains in memory. Another thing is the behavior that can be changed by building a new neural highway where to pass one's sexual thrusts.
     
  19. ultrafabber

    ultrafabber Fapstronaut

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    @Rustcan45 this will cover your question too

    You can unlearn anything, in this case unlearning is synonymous with replacing an association. If the former association does not exist anymore, it is effectively unlearned.

    However, abstinence does little to nothing when it comes to unlearning because the initial association is not replaced. Even worse, relapsing actually strengthens the association, as random rewards (both in quantity and time period) are the most potent way to strengthen a behavior, not to erase it. In fact, and this is something i have written on before, abstinence only is the worst way to reboot and is likely to make you more addicted.

    In this case the bi/homosexual inputs have to first be classified in two different sensory inputs: visual and touch. Technically it's more than touch as it involves proprioception too, but we can skip proprioception for now and include it in "touch".

    The visual part it is a bit tricky because if you are to extinguish your conditioning to "straight" pornography you'd also extinguish your conditioning for women. So in this regard i am actually for watching solo women to reinforce the heterosexual input but also alternate with watching "straight" porn focusing on the guy to extinguish the initial association. But watching solo women and getting aroused should only happen in a special circumstance which i will describe in a moment. Staying aroused in thin air, even if to solo women, would not be good, even if it's better than being aroused to "straight" porn.

    The touch part also needs to be split into two parts: reconfiguring what touching a penis lead to and reconfiguring what you feel during sex (with your penis). For the first part one should buy a realistic silicone penis (very similar to his own) and stroke it while not aroused. Initially this can be paired with unpleasant stimuli like pain etc (easiest is a piezoelectric lighter that is not dangerous and only snaps you out of it). Then neutral input should be gradually introduced - stroking the silicone penis until you are bored to death. For the second part a silicone realistic texture vagina works. One can use it pairing it with hetero inputs only (watching women solo). It should not be used like jerking off because that's jerking off with a few extra steps, but removed from it's plastic casing and humped on a bed, which mimics real sex and thrusting. Obviously if you have a wife/gf, you should have sex with her instead of using the silicone vagina. But you have to stroke the silicone penis anyway.

    Finally, when the initial PMO conditioning starts to break, you can touch your erect penis for a bit, focusing on what you're feeling (a penis). This will lower your arousal. If you get aroused, stop immediately and go back to the other steps.

    All those techniques have to be used both on a fixed and also on an intermittent schedule (as random rewards work best).

    There's many more techniques i want to write about but that would be in another topic. The general framework is that of cue-exposure.

    None of these techniques are meant for long-term use, just till the user has no more drive to PMO.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2020
  20. sigfridox

    sigfridox Fapstronaut

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    So by extension is any abstention unnecessary to get rid of an addiction? In this blog, many argue that after 120 days of rebooting, they begin to feel nauseous about old deviant sexual behaviors. Are they lying? Did they just convince themselves?
     

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