Homosexuality, vanity, fixation on appearance, addiction

Discussion in 'Self Improvement' started by Eric'sBlue, Apr 6, 2015.

  1. Eric'sBlue

    Eric'sBlue Fapstronaut

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    Does anyone else think that these things are near reaching the levels of pandemic in this country? I think so - but I hope it's not just in my head. I don't for one believe the tow-line of "you're born gay and/it's genetic". I think as others can attest here, sexuality is a complicated thing and it's not as simple as that black and white. I've also made observations that most people, nowadays, seem to be obsessed - literally obsessed with the way they look, and looking perfect. This used to be just affecting women but now, it affects both equally imo. Guys all have this 'perfect body' now and are like women, but men. What is happening? I even see lots of regular guys looking me over or giving signals of interest...even guys you would think of as "straight", people seem to be branching out or not caring at least about same sex attraction. There seem to be a lot more bi guys. That is what I gathered. I don't know what's happening or what's responsible for it, but I think the media promotes it and so our culture does.

    In my honest opinion, homosexuality has to be one of the most addicting things in this world -- for those who struggle with it or are prone to it, whether it's addiction, or whatever, etc. I don't claim to know what causes it, but I can say that I believe sexuality is way more fluid than people give credit for, and a lot of things influence your sexuality. Porn for one influences it. What you pay attention to. I've noticed that when I've relapsed "or started looking at porn with guys" again, I relapse hard and I go all out all the way. I also feel that this has to be affecting many, many men in our culture -- as I see it when I am out, especially when I go to the gym and am in the locker room, pool area etc, I see almost EVERY guy staring at himself in the mirror, or self conscious about how he looks, trying to catch himself in the mirror or just giving off a really image obsessed self-conscious vibe. Guys didn't used to be this way, caring about how they looked all the time -- like women traditionally do. I don't know what's going on anymore. I don't even know what I want. I feel as if I'm the most sexually ambidextrious person that I know -- this is not a good thing, for me. I don't want to occupy that position!
    I don't know if my attractions lie with women (which I know I have) and men, or if the porn is tuning me on to guys and maybe, opening that side of me. I'll say I don't dislike it when it happens, when I'm out and see a guy and feel somewhat "attracted" to myself. I don't know what to make of this.

    Are these healthy paths to go down? Is this stuff or should it be permissable, should we just allow it and let ourselves go..?
    Thank you for reading.
    Eric
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2015
  2. Mr. Sir

    Mr. Sir Fapstronaut

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    I think what most males lack in our modern world is purpose. That gives them extra time to obsess over how they look.

    On the flip side, I think that we all subconsciously know we don't look right. There are plenty of very common diseases that occur, that most of us have to one degree or another, that are a result of our food and environments. Think about this: plenty of guys would like, and actually put effort in, lifting weights to make their muscles grow. I think that inherently, the body knows that it is too sedentary, I think it knows that it's androgen receptors are dull from hyper sexual behavior and fluoride, I think it knows that it has too much estrogen.

    This physical knowledge occurs in us at a young age and then it is taken advantage of by marketing and products (not hating on capitalism and free markets - don't get me confused) instead of proper education and social change. Instead of learning how to eat and be active, we get enticed, as men, by all the fitness bs (where half of them are on steroids). This leads to a slight degree of the body disomorphia I think.

    I don't see why it is wrong thought, to appreciate a well developed physique or strive for one. I think it is actually very sound and healthy to strive to have low body fat and developed muscles. This is what our ancestors looked like before bread and cities...
    [​IMG]

    As for the sexual orientation thing, with all the homosexual and bisexual men you see, are you sure that you're not projecting a discomfort or fear of yourself onto others. You could be delusional. I see a few homosexual men and women now and then but they're not in hordes around me like this is the city of Sodom. What city do you live in? Mine is relatively conservative.
     
  3. Eric'sBlue

    Eric'sBlue Fapstronaut

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    Perhaps it is the particular gym that I go to. I really have noticed it and I don't think it's in my head. I may be conflating and confusing body envy or something similar for a sexual attraction. But I have been a round enough people and I think I'm observant enough to know the signals and tells of interest or desire.

    It's definitely happening. Maybe it's just this particular gym, it's a Lifetime gym. ...I've thought about it before whether I am projecting my experiences out onto others or not. This gets really confusing. Where can you find the line of reality? I find that impossible, so I stopped trying.
    It becomes really confusing to me.

    I'd hate to think that I was delusional although I realize it's quite common and not as bad as it sounds, but still. If this is all in my head - then I have some serious problems. My brother has even told me during our conversations in emails that some of the things I'm talking about and real upset about aren't as 'big a deal as I'm making it', but to me - they are.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2015
  4. Dr.NoFap

    Dr.NoFap Fapstronaut

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    Scientist don't know why people are homosexual. But we're treating it like it's normal.

    As for guys looking at the mirror admiring himself, that's normal. Men have been doing that since health and muscle has become a hobby. When I used to have an athletic body, I looked myself in the mirror all the time. I felt proud and confident.
     
  5. pturbo

    pturbo New Fapstronaut

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    Interesting post. I am 27 and identify myself as gay, because as a man I am more attracted to men sexually than women. However deep down I believe that everyone is somewhat bisexual because sexuality is certainly fluid and in my opinion based on BOTH genetic and environmental factors. Despite being religious and spiritual, I do not believe the idea that it is a purely environmental or necessarily a deviant behavior (but that is for another discussion).

    In regards to whether it's becoming more prevalent, these things are always very difficult to tell. Homosexuality has existed in societies throughout the ages, and at present day it's probably at it's peak of being accepted and recognised in many parts of the world. This is because we are hearing from more people about their experiences which in turn results in more people being comfortable to relate to others about their same sex attraction.

    Now as someone who identifies as gay (and also believes in God, nature and the universe), I have pondered that there may be an increase in people who identify as homosexual as a way to control the rampant population growth that is occurring on the earth. Really, we can't sustain the current growth patterns that we have in any way, so it's just another interesting perspective.

    Now whether there is an increase in men checking themselves or other guys out, this could be true but I don't think it has anything to do with men being attracted to other men. Now we live in a culture of visual imagery, where Instagram and and social media sites are constantly bombarding us with tools to make ourselves look and appear better so we can in turn become more popular via our online identity with others we want approval from. I don't think this has anything to do with a rise in men's attraction to other men. In fact, it's a deeper issue of people needing to improve themselves physically for the approval of others.

    What is really the issue is that there is a spiritual vacuum happening across the world that people are turning to seeking approval from others about their physical appearance, or accessing dangerous amount of pornography, in order to escape from the reality of their existence. We must remember we are all spiritual beings, we are on this earth for a reason and each have a purpose to be fulfilled. It's when we unlock this energy that we realise our true potential and the natural balance of life can start to flourish.

    If you are having any issues coming to terms with your identity, be it straight, gay, bisexual or non-specified orientation, then feel free to seek advice from me. I have struggled to come to terms with my sexual identity in the past and understand that it's a huge thing. When you're struggling with something, often the world will have it's way of showing you the signs of that struggle through things you notice. Not saying these things you are seeing are a result of that struggle but just offering further advice if you want any.

    All the best!
     
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  6. e5s

    e5s Fapstronaut

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    Vanity - This is the easy part to address. It's a natural human feeling, and definitely affected by environment. If you have to spend time with a lot of vain people, you tend to catch the bug. If you spend time in a place with a lot of mirrors, of course you will catch a glimpse of yourself and start thinking about how you look. There are so many big mirrors these days.

    For the longest time I purposely didn't put mirrors in my home, except the small one in the bathroom to check teeth. I felt so tranquil and at peace with myself, until I went into the city for errands, and then I noticed that lack of vanity made me look like I had just rolled off a hay truck. Everyone else was so well put together. I think there's a balance to be struck. You have to do the best you can in the environment you choose for yourself.

    For me, I chose my current gym in part because it has no mirrors, and I like that. I still can't help but check other people out though, men and women. It doesn't mean I want to sleep with them, I just appreciate the human form, and what the body can be made to do. What's wrong with that? Maybe it helps to keep it innocent that nobody's looking at me with body envy.

    Sexuality - I can't help you interpret the specific signals you're getting from guys, but I can confirm that straight women check each other out all the time, often openly. Sometimes it's pure admiration, sometimes it's a body image/comparison thing (does my gut look like that? ughh), sometimes it's threat assesment (sex appeal is power), sometimes it's bi tendencies surfacing (most people have them), and sometimes it's all about pecking order (turning one's gaze from head to toe and back again is a very dominant gesture!).

    No doubt these issues can happen with men too, and why shouldn't they? [Note: My opinion here, you form yours.] There's a cultural push from some conservatives to make "men be men and women be women, as God intended", but that's so artificial. Men and women are more alike than different, always have been. We're all human. If androgyny were such a frightful, unnatural thing, why would traditionalists need to work so hard to stamp it out? Culture pushes gender norms hard, especially on children. Same with homosexuality/omnisexuality and all. If it wasn't a "natural" feeling, how would it happen spontaneously, as it has in every generation? If God made the base nature of human, can't we say that he made us this way?

    Mind, there are healthy and unhealthy expressions of sexuality, which may be a little bit different for each individual, depending on their feelings, their personal history, their values, but I say... if it feels good AND it's good for you AND it's good for those with whom you share it, don't let anyone else shame you for it. And embrace love whatever package it comes in. Sex and love are so intertwined. Sex is a driving urge, love is a carefully cultivated habit. [Again, just my opinion, you have to sort out how you feel about it yourself.]
     
  7. trying_my_best

    trying_my_best Fapstronaut

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    Hi Eric, good on you for sharing this stuff.

    First of all, let me lay my cards on the table on this issue. I identify as gay (but acknowledge what you say about sexuality being complex, and potentially fluid) I have had only male sexual partners for over 20 years and am open about my sexuality and feel it is totally natural and healthy for me to have and act on same gendered attractions.

    First of all, why group these four things? (homosexuality, vanity, fixation on appearance, addiction), and why describe homosexuality as a pandemic as if it is a disease. If more people are able to be truthful and honest about who they are and how they feel, I think that is a great step forward for our societies. Isn't freedom from oppression a good thing?

    Being gay as an addiction? I really don't get how you are thinking about this. Substances can be addicting, behaviours can be addicting - sexual orientation is not addicting. Who you are attracted to, is really never in our control, it just happens. You don't think I was born gay? So does that mean people aren't born straight either? Is being straight a lifestyle choice for you, something you could change tomorrow if you wanted to? Are people addicted to being straight? I was not abused as a child, I did not see any gay porn until maybe sometime in my early twenties (but was sexually attracted to males, and not females, since puberty at least), I did not know any openly gay people as a child, gay sex was illegal where I live until about the time I was 18, I was a young teenager at the time of the beginning of the AIDS crisis when there were a great deal of negative images associated with being gay (ie to view the local media at the time, or to listen to leaders in the church I attended at the time, to be gay meant you deserved to die a horrible death!). I certainly did not choose being gay because it was groovy or sounded fun. I simply am gay and there is nothing that can change that, and nor do I want to change that. Yes, coming to terms with being gay (or bi or transgender or whatever) can be a great emotional struggle (and it was for me when I was young), but that is because of all the negativity and guilt and shame that other people create around the issue. But it is other people who create this shame, not God, not nature. In my opinion, if you do sometimes feel attraction to men, then to answer your final question "
    Are these healthy paths to go down? Is this stuff or should it be permissable, should we just allow it and let ourselves go..? " my answer would be a simple yes. Looking at gay porn doesn't make you gay, or make you attracted to men, rather it is more likely the other way around, that being at least partially attracted to men leads to an interest in gay porn. I might add that as a kid I did see hetro porn, because other kids at school showed it to me etc, and I pretended to be interested so they wouldn't think I was gay, but it never made me straight. Back then I would have been thrilled to be able to become 'normal' so simply. I even had a girlfriend for six months thinking a little practice might turn me straight, which so didn't work. So I so don't believe any of that stuff about environment turning you gay, because absolutly everything about my environment should have made me totally straight and didn't and there is no reason to think the process should work in one direction and not the other.

    As for guys in the gym being fixated about appearance, well that is just guys in the gym, not exactly a cross section of humanity, so maybe it is something about gym culture, rather than all men. But again, unpacking these things is complicated and I think I've written enough for now.

    Follow what you know in your heart, and resist the prejudices others want to project onto you.
    Peace Brother
    Pete
     
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  8. Eric'sBlue

    Eric'sBlue Fapstronaut

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    I'm not sure why I put them together, conflated them. It's not that I meant anything by it - that's just the way ...what I was thinking about at the time. I guess I was thinking about some of the things I see in society as a whole. Not to tie them all together.

    I can't even read what you wrote tryingmybest, about church and being bi and coming out and what the church told you ...and whatever ever yeah... god it was a night mare. For me, it was. I will never forget and still can't ... I wouldn't say that, I am gay. Due to being exposed to porn, and - my natural inborn temperament, perhaps I have some bi slight tendencies, I have engaged in this mess that is my life now. Ha. I probably qualify for a full on personality disorder, probably bpd or, emotion dysregulation. I struggle a lot, immensely. I am smart, well kept, attractive and gifted/talented, but that doesn't all matter - doesn't stop my life from being an utter, utter train wreck. .. of bad decisions, intemperance, terrible self-consciousness and all sorts of anxiety and depression, which have plagued me for a very, very long time. I've learned a lot of negative, unfortunate coping due to the circumstance I was in while younger - no one to talk to, had to get it done, had to survive - quick and dirty. My dad was a military man - Colonel in the Army. I was raised catholic too. Didn't mind that as much it provided solace except when it became irreconcilable with my own reality and the reality of my beliefs, of the world today..
    I have something, some kind of imbalance somewhere that leads to a lot of my problems. Don't know what it is, may never know.. I am impulsive, black and white thinking, extreme reactions to everything. Anger, ocd, anxiety .
    Sometimes I feel like I don't know what this person is, who I am. Or why I am doing what I am doing - sometimes. I think I just went crazy while I was younger, and wired myself this way. That's at least, what I think. I had no one looking out for me, so I didn't care about myself. Those who loved me, didn't know me. So they couldn't help me.
    I did a lot of things in that time period that have become entrenched habits, destructive and senseless (adaptive) ...very basic simple ways of coping, that have become so automatic they are just part of me, now. I have to work at getting in touch with myself and become very aware and mindful to go back and change, love my self. To do what's right and healthy for myself, and love myself, instead of shutting myself in my room away from everyone, and hating the absolute shit out of myself and neglecting my beautiful soul and my own one personal life that I have to live.

    I don't know. Thank you for all your responses, they are really insightful, and wonderful. Thank you.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2015
  9. trying_my_best

    trying_my_best Fapstronaut

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    Hi Eric

    Sounds like you have had a pretty hard gig. And I hear you that things are a real struggle and have been for a long time. But sounds like you are very thoughtful, and able to see what's going on at least, like you are on a path to recovery, even though it still feels like shit sometimes. Sounds like you already have some good tools, like being mindful and loving yourself - but I know it's hard to keep implementing those things all the time, even when you know they are good for you. Do you have any other people in your life who understand those things, who can help you be the person you'd like to be? Guess I'm just trying to say hang in there mate.

    Pete
     
  10. jazzphanatic

    jazzphanatic Fapstronaut

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    Hello Gentleman! 'Eric's Blue', what an interesting post!
    I feel that sexuality has been a mystery for centuries and finally, due to the progression of the culture that we currently live in, people now have a platform to discuss such a controversial topic more freely and doing so without being scorned or judged in the process. This, in my opinion, is a progressive issue that will continue for years to come. There's so much more to cover but this is all I have for now. Again, great post!
     
  11. IGY

    IGY Guest

    jazzphanatic - I just wanted to take a moment to commend you for reaching 100 days with no PMO or even edging.

    That is both impressive and inspirational. I wish you every success in completing the other two thirds of your goal. :)
     
  12. Andrew0268

    Andrew0268 Fapstronaut

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    All I can talk about is my experience. No matter how much porn I watched, when I occasionally found a gay scene I was immediately closing down windows and getting it off of my screen. I wasn't turned on and curious about Brokeback Mountain. I always feel strange if guys touch me in certain ways that could be contrived as sexual. However, my brother and my cousin, who grew up in very similar backgrounds to me are gay. Nobody abused them, nobody tried to sissify them, nobody shamed them in a way that would make them gay. They were different from a very young age and everybody knew it, but wouldn't talk about it. They both are very active in their churches and models of what humans should be. They are both kind, patient, don't take shit from people, will listen to people, and are relatively non-judgmental. Very Christ-like. So when some people say that "Homos are an abomination" I think that they have never really met one. Sure, SOME of them are obnoxious and loud and flamboyant. But so are Justin Beiber and Kim Kardashian. I don't for one second agree that sexuality is as simple as a choice.

    If it is... then prove it. Choose to be gay. Choose to be attracted to men. You don't have to kiss one.... Just look at a picture of a sexy man and choose to be arroused. In fact, if you think sexuality is a "Choice"... then choose to be attracted to a fat woman.... or a super ugly woman.... or a woman who is disfigured. Just choose it once, go to a hospital and have your attraction scientifically verified and I will shut up. Show me the evidence that sexuality is a "choice" the same way that choosing your job, what food you eat, and what articles you read is a choice. Just choose it and prove it to me. .... Until you can PROVE that it is a choice, you have no grounds on which to demonize these people.... the same people that are doctors, lawyers, teachers, servers, engineers, homeless, saints and sinners like we all are.

    And who cares if it is a choice or not.... do you judge someone who chooses a blonde over a redhead.... or a black wife over a hispanic wife.... It's not our place to judge. You don't know their lives.... You can't say that ALL gay people were abused... because that's not true. Neither can you say that all Abused people turn out gay. That's not true either. I know several straight women who were abused. Stop hating on gay people just because you think it's *Icky*. I personally think it's *Icky* but I have no place to judge them or stop them when I am receiving no harm. Stop being so easily offended. Man Up!

    About body image.... I both agree and disagree. Men and women need better things to shoot for than to get below 12% body fat. And we need a better life objective than buying a huge house with a cool car. But, being healthy will lead to a better looking body.... and contributing to society will (or should) result in a comfortable life IMO. I like looking better, but I don't obsess over it.

    About addictions.... I feel as though addictions are cause by being unbalanced and not being honest with yourself about your thoughts and emotions. Why can I have a beer and not feel compelled to drink till I passout and what makes another person have no control? What makes me PMO and another watch porn and turn it off without any urges? I feel that addictions are coping mechanisms brought on by being very insufficient in one area of life. Your thoughts and emotions guide you to balance. Don't ignore your feelings....expecially the bad ones.. but don't let them force your actions either.
     
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  13. jazzphanatic

    jazzphanatic Fapstronaut

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    Andrew 0268,

    Great response! So many great points that you touched on. It's always refreshing when someone gives their opinion in a positive way. You definitely did that with your response and it was both enlightening and encouraging to read!
     
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