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Discussion in 'Rebooting in a Relationship' started by Braveheart1990, Feb 14, 2018.
I think he was referring to the multiple "you don't have a real relationship" comments.
I know I said that and it was not a judgment. It was my own feeling, it is how I've felt about my own relationship since finding out I've been lied to for 15 years. It is harsh but true.
I said it too. What I meant is that she is in a relationship with the person that he has led her to believe that he is, not the person that he really is, and I cannot see how that would be real. On his end sure, its all real, but she has no idea who he is so how can it be real? Maybe this comes from the inability for a PMO addict to see how strongly finding out someone is lying to you or PMOing or using cams effects a person. Its almost like being catfished but in person. She thinks he’s one person, but he’s actually an entirely different person. She’s in love with the fake version of him. She actually may love the real version of him, but he has not given her that chance, he’s pretending to be who he is not. I don’t see that as judgment, I see it as reality. If he wants to do that that’s his business, but she does not know who he is, so how can that be real?
And from a recently-enlightened SO / a recently-told-the-truth SO, I think Numb's perspective saying "you don't have a real relationship" is EXTREMELY valid. Maybe it will wake the OP up so that he realizes that without truth, his relationship might not be real.
That is not mocking .. it is hard truth (from Numb's perspective).
Maybe I can try to explain it without being mocking. Here it goes. We all like to think we know the people that we choose to share our time with, friends, lovers, etc. But certainly those with whom we share a bed. So as a couple dates and moves into a relationship, each has an idea of who they think the other is, and that is whom they fall in love with. So just using myself as an example. I think that my hypothetical partner is honest, and that is something I value, I don’t believe in situational honesty and I would never date someone who did. I also would never date an addict, no matter the circumstances. But you could replace it with something else, I would never date a man who did not want kids, or who was divorced or who had committed murder. But my partner is in fact a liar, or whatever it is that I would never date. I trust him, I do not question that he is being honest with me. The trust builds the foundation for love, why because it allows people to be vunerable with him. Without trust, the vunerablity never comes, nor does the love. I am in love with a man who I think is being honest with me and would never lie to me. Then one day I find out that he was in fact lying to me for our entire relationshp. I start immediately to question what is actually real. I question my ability to know if people are honest, or who they are. I question it not just in the relationshp, but in all aspects of my life. I did not ever really know the person sleeping next to me. If am in love with a person who is not real. And without that trust, I would have never been vunerable and I would have never fallen in love. Does that make sense? The love is based on a lie. Then even though there may have been other things I loved about my partner and good times I had with him, I start to question what is real, was he being real then, was he lying who the heck am I dating? You cannot fall in love with a person when you don’t know who they are.
Yes, this is very much myself too and as my hubby likes to state it, is after telling the whole the truth we now share the same reality and can continue to move on with our marriage doing so. I unfortunately had to find out the hard way for him to come clean with the whole truth. I would have rather had a respectful disclosure years ago.
Very insightful and concise!
It was a deliberate decision not to single out specific respondees so I won't be naming and shaming. If I did that it would be the start of a race to the bottom in which those members feel personally attacked and so will respond defensively.
If you, and others, don't see the mockery towards the bottom of the first page/start of the second then that's okay but I did, as did several others.
I've decided to unwatch this thread as I feel I've extracted all meaningful information from it. Thank you to those who responded.
I understand. My purpose was not to start an argument, but to honestly see what was said that you were offended and hurt by. The majority of people that are on this group have zero intention to hurt people, I certainly do not. But if we don’t know how we are doing that, we can’t fix it and not do it again. I do not think that is mockery and yes I read it all. I go back to the fact that people are just saying things you don’t want to hear, hence why you are unfollowing this thread. I fully understand that you are genuinely hurt by what was said, but I don’t think it’s because it was said in a mocking manner. Because no matter how we said those things, you would take offense. It’s not the manner in which it is being said, it’s the information provided that is causing you pain. And I suspect many of the others who say it was mocking, don’t want to hear it either. You can see a distinct difference between those in active addiction,and those in recovery. I hope in time you will be able to b honest with your partner, before it’s too late. Best of luck in your journey.
Pity Braveheart took very honest and wise answers from SO's as personal attack on him.
I agree 100% with everyone who said his relationship is not real.
If you hide anything important what is going on in your life from your partner a specially your sexual activities outside relationship you are lying. Half truth is lie.Hiding stuff is lie.
If you are not honest the whole relationship is manipulated by you .You can't build relationships on lies .The truth can't be built on lie.
In monogamous relationships we believe we are only one. We expect to be the only one .
I expected that from my ex. My ex expected that from me too. He didn't tell me about his porn habit and for nearly three years of our relationship I was living in the fantasy world.
He made me believe that I'm the only one and special .He made me believe in exclusivety of our relationship. He made me believe I'm enough and he is not interested in others. He made me believe his only one desire.
He sent me a lots of messages, emails and hand written letters.
One of his messages sent a few weeks before DDAY.
Thinking about you. Again. You are truly a unique and amazing person and I have never met anyone even remotely like you ineed all my life.
You are very intelligent. You are very interesting. You are very funny. You are great company. If we're having a quiet pint, sitting at home or having a mad night out, I just enjoy being with you.
You are very beautiful. If you get dressed up to go out, full make-up etc., you are stunning. Take my breath away. I have to pinch myself sometimes - "this stunning woman chooses to be with ME?!?!: But even when you're at home with no make-up, you're still naturally pretty and sexy. I don't think you realise this. Sometimes I look at you and think "Wow". Like yesterday at the cooker, or the other day coming out of the bank. Beautiful and sexy - naturally. Jayzuss some of the things that I think about you would make a person blush. I have to restrain myself.
And you don't just LOOK sexy. You ARE sexy. Sex with you is an incredible experience & I have never known anybody who has the same effect on me. Not even close.
But it's much more than sexual attraction. I am also in love with your body in a non-sexual way. I just love touching you, cuddling you, feeling your skin. In bed or on Lidl. Doesn't matter. I just want to touch you.
Mind, body and soul. The complete package. My best friend, my lover, my one true love. Thank you for being with me and making my life SO much better than before I knew you. I feel alive because of you."
Because of these wonderful letters, messages and emails, on the DDay I completely lost my mind. I was shocked. Nothing was real anymore. I questioned my sanity.
On DDAY I discovered that I was fed with bullshit by someone who I loved to the bits inside out.
I didn't know who is he anymore .
I didn't know why he lied.
I didn't feel only insecure I was scared.
So many questions and so many destructive feelings I couldn't control.
I ended up in psychiatric hospital for about two weeks.
We broked up but this wasn't the end of the story.
He hurt me even more after the break up again with his dishonesty and games . I ended up in psychiatric hospital for over two months .
If he only could be honest on the very beginning of our relationship about his porn habit then I could have chance to make decision or try make things alright. I could see him as a man in different light instead of putting him on pedestal and believing he is a Unicorn.
I know this won’t be a popular take, but I think it’s not always so clear. I can honestly say that if my PA had recognized what he was doing was damaging to our relationship and took appropriate measures to rid himself of the behavior without my knowledge, I would have taken that road in a heartbeat. Do I deserve honesty? Sure. But I don’t want it at all costs.
My husband and I are now working very hard to repair our relationship, and I think it can recover. The damage it has done to me personally? I’m not so sure. I liked the person I was before this nonsense. Understanding that he chose P when he knew precisely how much it would hurt me makes me feel remarkably less safe. It has altered in a real way how I feel about myself and my body, and about him and his.
So don’t tell her, and be damn sure she doesn’t find out. Keep your happy life. Let her keep hers. But ONLY if you stop your ridiculous behavior. Not later. Now. If you can do that, and maintain it, then you get my blessing for a single mulligan. If you aren’t man enough to choose the well being of your partner and your relationship over PMO, I hope your dick falls off. I mean that in as nice a way as possible. XO
Well if you never found out as an SO you would never be hurt because how could you be hurt if you did not know? What you are saying is exactly what a lot of addicts use to justify not telling in their own minds. “I can fix this on my own I don’t need to tell her she will never find out.” But if it’s a true addiction it’s pretty much next to impossible in a serious relationship to recovery on your own without an SO knowing. If there are men that have that’s amazing, then again they don’t know that she won’t find out she just has not yet.
I get what you are saying and I felt a lot like that too. I just wanted to go back to how I saw him before I found out. But I would have always found out it was just a matter of time.
I understand all your points (although I think the first one was unnecessary to iterate, because wherever you go, there you are, and all that Jazz. I get that my being in this very discussion proves I have not rippled the space-time continuum) My point was only to say that:
1) If he wants a pass, he should take ONE, with the understanding that his dick falls off if he doesn’t quit the behavior. I am in the dissent on this one, so my permission isn’t good for much.
2) Maybe his SO doesn’t need to be devastated for him to hit some kind of bottom. Maybe the realization that he is making a conscious decision to put an actual person he loves in peril in the name of whacking off to a screen could be enough. (And for fucks sake, WHY IS THAT NOT ENOUGH FOR PEOPLE?)
Sorry to yell, I’m feeling very angry today
[?Unfortunately?] this is nothing but a huge idle threat. HE knows that his dick isn't going to fall off .. and you and I and he knows he isn't going to chop it off when he falls back into porn! So why even talk about "a pass" -- when the consequence is bogus?
SIMPLE: because it's an addiction. You are trying to apply rationale thought to an addicted mind.
You know what works => actually hitting Rock Bottom of some sort. Keeping it hidden from your SO does not equal anything close to Rock Bottom.
This viewpoint interests me because I didn’t really get caught, but I felt I needed to let my wife know so that I could be really known by her.
I told her some of my background in this and asked if she wanted to know more and she said no. She is upset but because I have made significant progress already she wasn’t quite as mad.
A question though: I didn’t usually M to porn, I looked at it mostly out of curiosity. M was a separate problem. Would it bother you if your SO looked at porn for curiosity but didn’t M to it?
Would it bother you if he was Ming without P?
Not to derail the thread, just curious.
Don’t answer if it’s not appropriate here.
The feedback was intense because you hit a nerve with a lot of people in recovery.
Keep in mind that this message board is chock full of dudes in recovery with raging testosterone levels due to the fact that for the first time in their life they haven’t jerked off in more than a week. They are also facing the necessary hell that can be found when they face their shit and work through it with honesty, courage and conviction. All this to say, a post providing reasoning with why honesty is perhaps avoidable is going to hit a serious nerve. Simultaneously, it is wise to consider that this much blowback to your question could be more indicative of what you are doing wrong, as opposed to what everyone ELSE is doing wrong, but that has to be your own conclusion. There is a chance that if the conviction and intensity from others stings, then it might be onto something in your mind.
All that being said, best of luck to you. I know the hellish path ahead of you well, and I also know it’s worth facing with courage.