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HOW could ANY of us watch porn EVER again after seeing this...

Discussion in 'Porn Addiction' started by Mark, Dec 21, 2013.

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  1. Deleted

    Deleted Guest

    Don't worry its not your fault, I massively overestimated my own ability to not be tempted by triggers because I was so far into my reboot, that's a lesson learned and I at least know that I will NEVER make that mistake again.

    But still ,This applys to all fapstronauts when I say this but please make sure in future that triggers have super noticeable and apparent warnings before you post them.
     
  2. @jiltedjohn, I understand what your point is. But I cannot be free in my expression of what I think and believe and hope that everyone will remain happy in the process. If Jesus rose from the grave then it proves that there is life after death and also proves that everything He said and taught was true - repentance included.

    I did not join NoFap to promote my beliefs, but to battle PMO and to help others battle it too, even on their terms. If they wish to join the battle on my terms, they are welcome - it is however not required of anyone to make me willing to assist them. However, what I believe cannot be kept deep in my heart - but I live it out. Just like if I believe that I can drive a car, then I will be driving it and will plan my life about as if I am able to drive a car.

    My previous post was a reply to EarthDragon's post so I assumed there that we share the same foundation of our faith. If this assumption was false, I apologize for the misunderstading and my previous comment, though expressive of my views, is simply out of place then.

    @Daenxi, I am sorry the link I provided was too much to handle for you. Reading your responce I realise that I might have been a little inconsiderate - so thank you for your honest feedback. I think I will remove it to avoid further stumbling.
     
  3. Mark

    Mark Distinguished Fapstronaut

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    Fair points, I hear and totally respect you and where you are coming from:)
     
  4. Mark

    Mark Distinguished Fapstronaut

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    Also its an interesting point as to whether or not that video should be removed. It HAS helped some people and so with faitlr prior warning people should be able to choose for themselves? I have put a warning before it now but I am also sorry for not making that clearer before.
     
  5. Based on your posts I think we agree in a lot of things regarding our faith. I watched that video you posted some time ago (the falling plates video) and it's pretty accurate. Looks great too.
    Anyway, quitting PMO shouldn't be a question of beliefs or religion, because of it's undeniable physiological effects. Smoking is not a question of religion. Neither alcohol or drugs. Porn shouldn't be, either. The thing is we shouldn't quit because "God wants us", even if that's the case. We should quit to make our lives better. We do this for ourselves, not for Him. He doesn't care. Of course God wants us to be the best we can, but he won't punish us if we stay in this addiction, He loves us anyway.

    But everybody who reaches this site knows that there is something wrong with the PMO cycle, and I strongly believe that it's a sign that God thinks that the time has come to quit. He let you watch it, but now it's time to make a change. Figuratevly speaking, this site is a gift from Him, through Alexander. That's my opinion. The beauty of this is even if you ignore every religious aspect, the truth is still there.
     
  6. I will PM you about this.
     
  7. freedom777

    freedom777 New Fapstronaut

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    true that .......
     
  8. nofap2014

    nofap2014 Fapstronaut

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    Thank you for posting the links. I have a friend who I have argued with about prostitution being a "victimless" crime - I will share these links with him. The sex industry (video production, "massage" parlors, strip clubs, prostitution) lends itself to human trafficking - you never know for certain if that person you are watching has been coerced into their act. Even if you morally do not have a problem with a person sharing their body for hire, I think anyone with a conscience understands human trafficking is wrong. As a part of my P trolling, I myself have viewed some live cam activity - I am sure some of that had to of been coerced - a very sobering thought.

    In my hometown a few years ago, someone opened a "restaurant" which turned out to be a strip club (very shocking in a small, Southern community). There was much consternation, followed by protests from some local churches. The city government felt duped as they had sold a business license for a restaurant but after much legal activity, there was no legal way to shut the place down. Then a strange thing happened. The "restaurant" went out of business after about 2 years of operation. The owner even tried to make a screened parking lot so cars were not visible, but no dice. There was not enough demand for the product even though it was near the intersection of two major regional roadways. This is not to say my hometown holds the moral high ground, but I would say that the sex industry serves a market and if the market is not there... well, those folks will be looking for something else to do. The NoFap makes it OK to say "I am man enough to say no to this crap" and vote with our feet (or our computers).

    Thanks again for this food for reflection.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2014
  9. Mark

    Mark Distinguished Fapstronaut

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    Great points. I've been REALLY pissed off this week because a young man I support in my job working with people with autism/disabilities has been 'encouraged' to go to a local 'massage parlour' to vent his sexual frustrations (which are the product of incessant pornography use) and the argument that has been put forth is that these are 'clean' establishments where the girls have 'good working conditions' and 'are well looked after'.

    WTF!!!

    I remember about 15 years ago I worked in a bar in the small northern industrial town I live and there was a 'brothel'(lets call a spade a spade shall we!!) next door. Less than a minutes walk away there was the local (large) 'police' headquarters. One of my friends asked the 'receptionist' at the brothel how they managed to stay open so close to the police station? She gave a wry smile and simply said, "who do you think our biggest customers are?"

    And of course that won't shock anybody who understands the real nature of both the establishments mentioned which is why we can NEVER rely on the 'authorities' to do anything other than show a tokenistic 'interest' in such matters.

    The responsibility for ending this shit lies with each and every one of US to STOP participating in this...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WmL2-nZKFQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player

    ... because when we do we are equally responsible!!

    (In fact I'm so pissed off about the above I'm going to start a thread on it)
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2014
  10. xavieravenue

    xavieravenue Fapstronaut

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    These links are absolutely mind blowing. So disturbing...I wouldn't even put a trigger warning on these, they are so distressing you'd never watch porn again.
    Thank u for posting. Fuck I'll never watch porn ever again.
     
  11. Mark

    Mark Distinguished Fapstronaut

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    I know exactly how you feel!
     
  12. Mark

    Mark Distinguished Fapstronaut

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  13. hold

    hold New Fapstronaut

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    Look I just can't sympathize with the liveleak video.

    Unlike the first one where people are being trafficked, she is working there of her own free will and by her herself participating in the creation of adult material has done more harm for her own cause than the people she's angry at.
     
  14. Mark

    Mark Distinguished Fapstronaut

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    Maybe? But is worth considering the points raised in this article... http://mattfradd.com/2012/07/18/5-myths-about-porn/comment-page-1/
     
  15. Castle7

    Castle7 Fapstronaut

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    Before replying with any hate messages, please read my entire post.

    OK. So, I'm not so sure I agree with the message of the liveleak video, basically saying that women are raped and forced into porn. Although rape happens (just as it does anywhere else in the country), the performers aren't routinely being raped. The truth is, they prostitute themselves for money. The video is entirely oriented towards the women as victims, not even mentioning the male performers.

    I feel it's an important point to make that both the male and the female performers are the victims. I don't like the whole "women are victims" and the (usually male) "producers are the rapists" message. That simply is an incomplete message and thus a false one by omission. All of the actors, male and female, are being taken advantage of, and they live horrible lives.

    The performers admit this, that they do it for the money. One related video I found on youtube had a performer state that many times they show up and end up doing stuff they didn't necessarily sign up for. But they do it anyway "for fear of not being paid." Again, clear admission that this is prostitution, not rape. I find it a little disingenuous for a performer to basically say 'Hey, I signed up to have degrading sex on film, but not that kind of degrading sex, but I did it anyway for the money' and then try to title it as rape.

    Where does that leave us, the voyeurs? The darkness, the depression, the blindness of mind. Where does this come from? It comes from the same sinister source. A bunch of sad performers all pretending to be enjoying sex, but they are not. We all intuitively know this, but we soak in their darkness anyway. Don't we know that the performers real lives are a sham as well? Sad, dark, and fogged. Sound familiar?

    So I will leave you with this video. It shows the many, many porn performers, both male and female, that have died due to STDs, drugs and suicide. The video is posted by Shelley Lubben, the same ex-porn star talking in the liveleak video.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0q_VGacfNk
     
  16. Mark

    Mark Distinguished Fapstronaut

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    Cheers for post, all fair, relative/relevant points. Video is sad and your post adds even more reasons for never looking at/using porn again. Thanks again.
     
  17. -DS-

    -DS- Fapstronaut

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    It's important not to put all porn into one basket.

    Sure, there is a lot of really sick stuff where people are taken advantage of. But not all porn is like that and not all performers are helpless victims (in fact a vast majority are not).

    It is a question of supply and demand. There is always gonna be a demand for porn and it's up to performers who are willing to make living doing it to choose a way to supply it in a most dignifying fashion.
    A lot of girl today have there on websites or use other means to distribute their videos.

    And just as it is a responsibility of a buyer to know from where his stuff is coming from, the same responsibility falls on viewers of pornography.

    I could quite easily watch a porn after seeing those videos because I know what I watch.
     
  18. Mark

    Mark Distinguished Fapstronaut

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    I guess you could say there's a 'sex industry spectrum' and at one extreme we have trafficked girls (do they traffic guys?) and all the really 'seedy' stuff etc and at the other extreme we have well paid 'glamour' models (or wherever we draw the increasingly blurred line?) and I guess there's everything in between. To me its all interconnected and in terms of supply and demand if I (for instance) willingly use/watch one aspect of it I feed (if only a little) the entire industry because the moment we objectify the female form as a sex object or engage in 'voyeurism' (which is what watching porn is, getting off watching filmed prostitution) for our own self gratification we become part of the demand and I for one am no longer prepared to be part of that in any way, shape or form. I also have a beautiful teenage daughter and part of my decision to completely disengage from all manner of porn is that if there's something I would not want to see my daughter (or sons!!) engaged in then it would be totally hypocritical to 'engage' in it myself. If women/men etc wish to willingly participate in the 'supply' of pornographic material then that is their business but I will never be part of the 'demand' again. And I'm not judging either because I have been there but I just think I, like most others on this forum just want to move onwards and upwards having learned and grown together as we leave behind something most of us never even considered questioning not so long ago, such is the power and draw of the 'spectrum'.

    I really like these other threads as I believe they examine deeper aspects of the 'source' of the problem and I believe the more we understand the more even those who have previously expressed a desore to continue participating in one form or another (rationalizing?) might desire to become part of the 'solution'...

    http://www.nofap.org/forum/showthre...-of-mind-control-(an-interesting-perspective)

    http://www.nofap.org/forum/showthre...-yourself-ever-It-s-not-(entirely)-your-fault

    ...in fact DS you posted an excellent thread recently about treating the cause not the symptom and I totally agree (and its only right these threads should provoke enlightening discussion for ALL of us and I appreciate all angles as all's relative etc). And please don't think I'm trying to be arsey in any way its just that I really do believe we live in times where we really do need to start digging deep, sink or swim style? :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2014
  19. -DS-

    -DS- Fapstronaut

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    But imagine if your daughter decided she wants to be part of the industry. I am not trying to be personal for the sake of being personal - I want to illustrate a point and I obviously don't know you nor your daughter so please take no offense.

    If your daughter decided to shoot softcore pornography because she would like the idea of making a living that way and the whole idea of getting paid because somebody appreciates her female beauty, it wouldn't be so far from a career of a regular non-nude model. In fact the only difference is the lack of cloths.

    You mentioned that it would be wrong to indulge in such a material because "we objectify the female form as a sex object". But I don't think that it is necessarily correct. In my experience guys on porn forums and torrent trackers care a lot about their favorite performer as a whole person. They take into consideration her attitude, sense of humor and see her not as sex object but as a very sexy female.

    And just as there is nothing wrong about appreciation of intellect (biographies of famous writers, rules, etc.) there is no reason not to appreciate sexuality in the same way.

    I absolutely agree that we should strive to elevate ourselfs as much as possible and that in case of porn there is a LOT to improve on both ends.

    But putting everything into one basket is never a good idea (and I know that is not what you were doing) and often can obscure the real problems that need our focus and create many additional ones that wouldn't need to exist in the first place.

    100% agree. Never before was humanity faced with so many conflicting ideas, believes and new trends. To make sense of all of this is a tremendous task.
     
  20. Mark

    Mark Distinguished Fapstronaut

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    I understand the nature/purpose of your question so no offence taken:) I have discussed these kind of things with my kids and I guess if say my daughter did get into that type of modelling that would have to be her choice and I honestly don't know how I'd feel (probably gutted!;)) but she is a very strong willed young lady with values I never even dreamed exsisted at her age:D so I would be surprised if that's the route she would go down and am pretty sure she wouldn't (and honestly the Flanders we most definitely are not!;))

    I've had a similar conversation with my boys as their mums family is predominantly military and if they ever sold their minds/bodies to a lying/cheating/murderous government of course I would be gutted (and i appreciate some might find that offensive but that doesnt make it any less valid) but that's something, young as they are, I am fairly sure they would never want to do. Having said that its their choice I guess but I would never support them to go fight a 'war' if I knew it was based on false premises and a pack of self serving murderous lies! (In other words I would NEVER support them to go to war!) How could I? And I guess I feel the same about the sex industry? I'm thinking (typing!)out loud here and I actually find these type of discussions helpful to gauge where I'm at with certain things so I do appreciate the opportunity etc.

    And I don't know about people finding the whole person attractive etc as mentioned i guess that's a subjective thing and absolutely there's nothing wrong with appreciating somebody's beauty I just guess when they are 'packaged' to be appreciated mainly as 'sexy' it boils down to them being sold as a sexual object/commodity etc even if they are willing participants. To me it all feeds into an industry that causes lust/craving/materialism/suffering etc etc and so i want no part in it anymore.

    I guess its a kind of 'house of cards' type idea I have that if people weren't willing to go on the 'frontline' in any aspect of it (including the spectators!) then those profiteering would slowly lose their 'grip' etc and its those behind the scenes, in the shadows, the string pullers, that are the real fuckers in all of this and as long as any of us keep buying into their 'products' (whether it be porn or 'war') then its those that keep winning, and at whose expense?
     
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