How much sex is too much?

Discussion in 'Porn Addiction' started by Aryangor, Sep 4, 2014.

  1. Weiland

    Weiland Fapstronaut

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    It depends upon the use of the metaphor. I've used it in two separate ways for two separate perspectives.

    In the one intended here, the air force is the much-needed alternative approach that roots out the defenses of the stronghold (cutting off the head, chopping out the root, going to the source, etc). The fortress in this situation is an problem, any problem, but easily associated with perversion like pornography. What is the root? Depends on how deep you go. Effectively, pornography is caused by certain tendencies and if you find out why it's there in the first place, cut off the source, restore the purity to the heart, and reestablish pure habits and pursuits, it'll lose its strength (as opposed to merely attacking it head-on).

    For me, it was [NSFW] Jennifer Lawrence's nudes.[/NSFW] I realized the depth and the root of my addiction - anonymity, the lack of an identity to the women I was lusting over made it possible for me to go back to it time and time again, desensitized. It started me on the path to defeating this addiction once and for all - a precision munition.

    The other metaphor I use is a spiritual one. The idea is that as Christians, we often approach people in a direct manner and try to witness to them or minister to them spiritually without much in the way of preparation or wisdom. This is akin to assaulting a fortified, hardened position with ground troops first. If there's a spiritual stronghold in their lives, you're not going to tear it down directly and it's going to get messy - there will be arguing, fighting, conflict, judgements made, words said - or at best the person will simply look at you like you're a loon: "I don't need that Jesus stuff." The air force in this example is prayer, sending the Holy Spirit (i.e. God) to soften up the target's heart and to prepare your heart for your approach, so that when you do interact with them, you have the wisdom and discernment to minister to them properly and they'll be able to receive it. That last part applies to the mopping-up section of the metaphor, where the infantry and armor come in after the precision munitions and carpet bombing and simply mop up the softened defenses.

    Is that clearer?
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2014
  2. e5s

    e5s Fapstronaut

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    Yeah, that makes more sense in context. I get you, Weiland.

    Anyway, it's still dumb for guys to feel accomplished about banging party girls wherever they find them. The "prey" is hunting you back! Ugh. You have NO idea. (Ah, "you" being Joe 19-year-old, not you, personally.)

    The alternative scenario, taking advantage of innocents, is worlds worse, of course, which I guess makes me grateful I'm not a guy who has to work within earshot of such sick conversations.
     
  3. Ribbit

    Ribbit Fapstronaut

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    This is an interesting subject.

    I just wanted to remind everyone, that we all make our own choices and we should listen to our inner in these cases. If you find the idea of casual sex exciting for you, then go and do it. It may not be for everyone, but for those who enjoy it, it can bring benefits as well.

    Some studies have been against it and some have been recommending it, but the end result seems to be the same: If you want to have casual sex and you are okay with that, then you should have it. If you start feeling bad doing it, then don't.

    Simple :)
     
  4. Weiland

    Weiland Fapstronaut

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    I would tend to disagree. I've yet to find even a single situation where casual sex is beneficial. About the only potential "pro" is that it's exciting in the moment, but cons include an increased chance of getting an STD, desensitization, a warped and unfair perspective and expectations of women, and a lot of heartache. And the farther beneath the surface you get, the worse and most destructive it gets.

    Operating purely on how you feel at the present is a sure recipe for destruction. In fact, that same argument can be (and has been) used in regards to pornography: if you want to watch it and are okay with it, then go ahead; if you start feeling bad, then stop. But like any disease, you're unlikely to know there's a problem until the symptoms start showing up, and by then, you're desperately sick and in pain.

    As men, we have a responsibility to the women in our lives. Many men shirk that responsibility and cause untold amounts of damage. It doesn't "feel" like they're doing anything wrong at the moment, for sure, but we can't operate merely out of how we feel at the moment. Men who engage in casual sex are in danger of experiencing the same drawbacks as the men who engage in pornography (a damaged self-image, warped views of women, a difficulty producing real intimacy, and so on) - the difference between the two is that with casual sex, you're also affecting women.

    And suddenly you're not the only broken one, but have in addition left a trail of broken women in your wake. I'm not suggesting that you're the only problem there - a woman who respects herself and values her body and her heart won't sleep around casually (and that should tell us something), and a woman who doesn't has more problems than just her current fling - but you'll be contributing heavily.

    Now, as a Christian, I also have a deeper understanding of what sex between a man and woman is. As spiritual beings, we men tie ourselves together and become one body and one spirit when we have sex with our wives. What happens when you tie with someone who has tied herself with other men? You become spiritually linked and tied with everyone else she's been with, polluting your marriage bed - and that spider web can go on for a very long time when you consider how many other partners her partners tied with, and so on. Having gone through the process to break and cast off those spiritual ties I've made with other women before my current intended, I'd be a damned fool to dig back into that lifestyle; such things are not so easily repaired, and even my non-casual sexual endeavors inflicted damage on the women in my past.

    Simple on the surface, perhaps, but there is a lot going on underneath the waves.
     
  5. Ribbit

    Ribbit Fapstronaut

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    I understand your point of view, but as long as both people are honest and don't play games, casual sex could as well be great and a wonderful stress relief?

    There are people out there, guys and girls, who are not currently interested in a relationship, but who still want to experience their sexuality in some other way than just PM or M. If two people can set their boundaries right, and they both know what they are getting into / enjoy it, then why not?

    I just don't think all that negative stuff would be set in stone in this case.

    Cheers.
     
  6. You make claims here without any substance. Please provide some evidence, research results or personal stories of people to support your claims. Words "ideally" and "definitely" imply very serious allegations, please support your thoughts.
     
  7. Yeah, I read "Wild at Heart", as well as other books by Eldredge. I have also been to his boot camp when his team and he came down to South Africa - was very special!!
     
  8. Correct me if i'm wrong, but this sounds like the "tolerance"-type argument, which might imply an attitude of "as long as it does not affect me, anything goes". I am not a great fan of such point of view, because I prefer to care for the society around me and am more altruistic. Also, this argument can be applied to rape, abortion, serial murders and other crimes. Feelings are not a good measure because they are too subjective. What we are trying to discuss here is hard evidence, physiological, psychological and even moral.

    But once again, I might be wrong and maybe this is not how you meant it.

    These are your thoughts and you are totally entitled to them. But, like I said to another poster, would you give some substance here to your thoughts? I am sure you are coming from somewhere and something must have convinced you to hold on to this opinion. Is it something from your own personal life, or maybe from lives of some people you trust deeply on the matter?
     
  9. Weiland

    Weiland Fapstronaut

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    I can understand where you're coming from, but I think that your perspective is actually illustrating a point I've made in the past: sexuality doesn't necessarily have to have anything to do with the act of sex. Experiencing our sexuality with a woman doesn't have to mean doing anything overtly sexual; it's society's mixed-up idea of what sexuality is that seems to encourage this concept. As a man chases after purity and chases especially after his own heart, his identity is reaffirmed and he begins to redevelop sensitivity to the other ways in which he can experience (and enjoy) sexuality.

    In fact, casual sex with no strings attached is actually one of the basest methods of expressing ones sexuality; it misses entirely the depth of the entire experience, while simultaneously ignoring the long-term effects and underlying, slowly-developing factors that only become evident when they're thoroughly rooted and give fruit.
     
  10. Ribbit

    Ribbit Fapstronaut

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    Heh, I'm not much of an internet argument type of a person. My original intent was to bring some other points of view to this discussion, and remind people not to beat themselves down for doing casual sex, especially if they get something out of it in a positive way. Sorry if I missed the point, that was not my intent.

    So yeah, jumping out at this point :)
     
  11. Ribbit

    Ribbit Fapstronaut

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    Thanks for the wise words. You see, I'm still young and have a lot to learn ;)
     
  12. e5s

    e5s Fapstronaut

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    Ribbit, Please define "relationship". Also "casual".

    It seems to me, if two (or more) people get to know each other well enough to be justifiably confident that the other is being honest, is mentally sound, will be respectful of all boundaries and is a good steward of their own emotional state (high bar on that last one) then what you have there is a relationship. It may not be a traditional relationship of the love-and-marriage type, but it wouldn't be what I consider a casual sex encounter either. That kind of interpersonal homework can't be accomplished over a quick cup of coffee or two.

    Also, hopefully this won't derail the thread, but here's a link to a big Venn diagram mapping out relationship models.
    http://paxus.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/nonmonogamy.gif (Warning: If your spiritual discipline is held together with tunnel vision, don't look.)
     
  13. e5s

    e5s Fapstronaut

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    Going back to the beginning, I think the original question was more about promiscuity, shallow relationships and unhealthy patterns of sexual behavior than it was about any deeply considered sexual/relational choices that adults might make together. Correct me if I'm wrong.
     
  14. coolmike87

    coolmike87 Fapstronaut

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    craving and obsessing over sex and making that your goal is when it has become too much... when thoughts of sex can just pass through your mind without a crazy desire for it, you are on the right track... MOST people ARE sex addicts... society says its ok. society says its actually really cool even
     
  15. Aw man! Sorry if it felt like arguing - coz its not. Its a tennis-like discussion, a debate about a certain topic. Of course there will be pros and cons, and certainly some people will be more for it and some against it. But this is how you learn new stuff and challenge others about their points of view. This is how we men do things - you know, to connect and to support each other. By communication with enough respect and good listening skills, so much can be accomplished. And we are all equal here - and not just because of the Internet.

    So yeah... would be nice to have you support your argument further. Im just sayin...
     
  16. e5s, good point. I started the thread to discuss sex and sexual relations that men engage into without planning to have emotional connection. This would also include trying to have an emotional connection with one woman, while having a huge history of casual sex with multiple partners.

    There are marginal cases existing as well. Cases when a certain level of emotional involvement is reached before sexual involvement, but still little or no commitment is given. But that's another topic for another day...

    The main purpose of this thread is to make some solid conclusions about the state of men's minds and hearts who go through such lifestyle in order to address the problems (if there are any) and to assist them in coming free (if they want and need it). Because if there is a good chance that there is such a thing as sex addict, then they also need help from outside to get out - like any other addict.

    Coz if u cant get out on your own, then u r an addict.
     
  17. Oh that's a cool statement!! Society is very sexualized today - is that good or bad? To what extend?

    Here are two videos I came up with quickly that illustrate woman objectification and sexualization:

    [h=1]Jessica Rey - The evolution of the swim suit[/h]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJVHRJbgLz8

    [h=1]The Sexy Lie: Caroline Heldman at [email protected][/FONT][/SIZE][/h]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMS4VJKekW8

    These claims are well researched and are very good. So the question that follows for me is this - are we as men going on the society's leash, doing what it brainwashes us to do? Or are we taking a stand against the societal norms, however tough that might be, and are shaping our own value systems?

    Or perhaps, we as men are what shapes the society and the world around us is the very product of us? Of who we are?
     
  18. e5s

    e5s Fapstronaut

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    For what it's worth, I'm not a man, but the only thing that got me out of that lifestyle was the offer of a desired loving relationship conditional upon faithfulness. Looking back at what I was then, what honestly happened was, I weighed the pros and cons and decided the price of admission was worth it. That was 17 years ago now, and we're still going strong. I don't know if anything short of that situation would pull many people to their senses. The desire for intimacy is so strong.
     
  19. Ekhangel

    Ekhangel Fapstronaut

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    What does "society" matter anyway? There are different layers of society, different men living in it. It is up to each one of us alone to make our own decisions, basing on our inherent sense of beauty. Unless we of course live in a collectivist society (democracy) which is indeed a mortal enemy of individualism.

    Whether casual sex is "good" or "bad" (or when is there "too much" of it) should not be a subject of discussion in the XXI century anymore, for these absolute terms have too often distorted rational argumentation in the past to be recognized as valuable rhetorical devices.

    I can only laugh at those going on about how much casual sex creates a void (or fails to fill it), how it gives a hurting soul and so on. Those preachers of absolute morality tend to think that we as humans are uniform in our perception of reality, in our ambitions and goals and in our sensitivity to various emotional stimuli. This is obviously not the case and thus any discussion based on such assumption leads to nowhere - or another religious rant at best.

    Having acknowledged the differences among individuals however, one can still seek mutual understanding among his peers and try to persuade his point of view. But this can be most effectively done by a mere personal statement of will along with reasoning behind it. Any reference to "society", " morality" and bollocks of that sort will only effect in another shallow and pointless chit-chat, if not a flamed quarrel.

    So, my final statement is: I don't care if a man or a woman agree for casual sex. It's their business. What I intend to do however is deny it to myself, and condemn it among my family and close friends. The reasons for this I have stated many times on this forum and are similar to what most of us here feel about the issues of family, dignity, love and so on.
     
  20. HispanicMON

    HispanicMON Fapstronaut

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    1: no casual sex, why? Well, sex is important (I'm a virgin). By the way, your going to get a lot of bias answers because this is a "NOFAP" website where people are actually trying to stop bad habits. By coming to this website you have already answered your question.

    2: what extent?! Lol, one is fine....multiple!! What universe?
    3: I've never TECHNICALLY been in a relationship, so, I can't answer that.
    4: an addiction ( look at answer 1)
    5:well, I don't know anything about casual sex, but, to stop any addiction is to stop "cold turkey", have SUPPORT to help you/someone get through.

    SORRY if this was not helpful.

    I hope it kind of helps.
     

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