How To Betray Your Wife, Destroy Her Self-Worth And Implode Your Marriage In One Easy Step

I absolutely love everything he wrote here. So few sex addicts get into long term recovery that it’s hard to see the real actual damage their addiction has caused. I had no idea nor did my husband. Until he got clean. You can tell when he relapses, who he is changes based on where he is at with recovery. He is so utterly selfish when using.

 

Agreed this part really missed the mark. I have never heard someone describe viewing porn as "just sex". People are more likely to describe viewing porn as "just images/videos" with no interaction with another person... The author makes a really dishonest comparison between a wife who has a one night stand and a husband viewing porn. It would have been much more effective if the author focused on why/how a husband would not be okay with his wife using porn. Describing how the "just images/videos" argument does not hold water if a wife is choosing porn over intimacy, no longer satisfied with husband physically, etc.

 

If the porn use was a one off, the partner was up front about porn use before the marriage or quit immediately upon the partners expression that “ hey this fuc*ing hurts me, it feels like cheating and I no longer feel like I can trust you” that might be different. That is rarely what happens. Like an affair, he is giving his time, sexual energy, thoughts, and sometimes money to other people. If his vows included “ forsaking ALL others” then yes I expect to be the only person he turns to for sexual expression. I expect him to talk to me ( shocker) if we are not connecting in any area of our life and marriage. Seriously, if you don’t think it’s cheating that’s fine but you do not get to tell your partner how they feel. I’ll put it another way- your wife meets up ever day with a man she met just for coffee at Starbucks. You don’t know about it. But as time goes by you realize she is gone longer, doesn’t talk or listen to you, and she’s refusing sex more and more, months on end. She’s completely uninterested in you. You see she goes to coffee a lot and ask her about it, she says she just gets coffee. You ask if she’s having an affair, she denies. So you follow her. You see her with this man and Later you confront her about it and she says “ he’s just a friend I meet for coffee, nothing is going on”. But she’s sneaking out to meet him multiple times a day, sometimes getting up in the middle of the night while you’re sleeping. You ask her not to, she continues and continues to lie to you about it. You tell her it hurts and feels like cheating and she adamantly says nothing is going on, she’s not having sex with him. You want to know why she isn’t home more often, why she’s lying about meeting this person, if there isnt anything going on why won’t she stop? She argues they’re just friends and why are you so jealous, why can’t she have friends? Your relationship continues to get worse but she says everything is fine, but you are miserable. She doesn’t really care about anything except when she will see her friend next. You call the man…. He tells you they have never had sex, they have never touched, never seen each other naked, ever, he doesn’t even know her real name. They just exchange stories, fantasies of what they want, then go home and masturbate to them. You confront her again and she says “ it’s not cheating, it’s not like one I’m having sex with him. I just fantasize about it and thousands of other men, everyone does it”. Then she says “ I love you, I can see how much this hurts you, I really didn’t know, I’ll stop seeing him”. You feel better, things get better for a while and you think they no longer see each other. Things aren’t great, she is home more often, but then she starts staying away more and more, telling you it’s work, so you start getting a feeling, you think you’re crazy, so you swing by her work and there she is having lunch with the man. You have 3 children, she earns triple what you do ( you just work on the side because someone had to be home with the kids) and she owns the house you live in. You don’t even own a car because she insisted she could pay cash rather than get a loan so it had to be in her name. You completely trusted her. Until now. You feel trapped. I personally feel porn is as bad if not worse than sex. Because of this. You think it is not as bad. Why isn’t it as bad? If I robbed you blind while married, hiding the money would that be different than if I broke in and stole from a stranger? Technically, all the money is “ ours” so I’m not stealing even if I lie to you about it, right? Again, that’s your right to not think if it as cheating but if your partner feels it is cheating, ( man or woman, and yes men can feel the same) then to them it is. Hell just don’t get married or a long term supposedly honest committed relationship. Go have all the solo sex you want, you can cam, see hookers, you can act out every sexual fantasy you want but don’t drag someone else into your life. Be a decent person and think about how they feel, not just what you want.

 

Do you believe that having solo sex with yourself while imagining you’re with someone else is betraying your partner? Maybe that’s where we really have a difference of opinion. I think it is cheating., my husband vowed to forsake all others. Then proceeded to pretend to be faithful because he “ hadn’t” touched another person. Why are emotional affairs even a thing? No sex involved, it shouldn’t hurt right? Too many porn addicts want to minimize the hurt and betrayal by saying “ well at least I didn’t cheat” and take great pride in that fact. I think here, he’s really pointing out, that of your partner feels like it’s cheating then you cannot tell her it’s not. You have the right to disagree, but you do not have the right to tell her how to feel.

 

Not helpful to who? Pay attention, because this is a poignant moment for you men who are PA. You're getting a wealth of knowledge here, and you are dismissing it and invalidating the author. Sorry you see it that way, but I vehemently disagree with you. As the sex addict, you aren't the one suffering our consequences for that which we played no part in.

You too are dismissing it and invalidating the author. Don't you get it? We view it as one and the same, or worse. How do you think that makes us feel when you just more or less tell us we don't know what we are talking about? You missed the whole point entirely. I understood the author to mean that "what if we presented that argument to you as our husband that it was 'just sex' if we went out "? Not to imply someone describes viewing porn as just sex. You would be upset if we went out and just had sex wouldn't you? I don't understand where you're coming from. And just for the record, it isn't us choosing porn over intimacy. No, we're not interested in having sex with a man who has sex with hundreds of women, porn, affair, or otherwise.

Right! That's gaslighting.

This kinda makes me laugh because it made me think back to a scene in a movie where he stabbed the man in the stomach with a sword and then said "well at least I didn't use a spoon". The end result is the same and just as devastating. It doesn't matter whether or not if porn does not hold the risk of contracting a sexually transmitted disease. Neither does abstinence. It's an extremely weak argument for a very weak case.

Could it be that that's because we as a society have normalized it as such?

I think you may be right about this.

I had this exact scenario with my husband. He used that very argument. One day when he was going through his program he came up to me and apologized for cheating. It was one of many turning points in our recoveries. It doesn't matter if he thinks it's cheating. If we think it's cheating, then it's cheating.

Just WOW! I cannot even... Let's not play semantics here. "Solo sex" aka masturbation by any other name is still masturbation. Are we really going to go there? If you're not imaging being with someone else, that someone being on your screen in front of you, why don't you just jerk off to a chocolate chip cookie or something then? I mean if you're not imagining to be with someone what the hell is the point of watching that trash anyway? Do you know anyone who watches porn and doesn't ejaculate? I believe most men are not capable of distinguishing between being intimate with someone and maybe also having sex with that person. Most men objectify that person for the purpose of jerking off, producing an orgasm, and getting that dopamine hit. That is most men who are PA.

So by your definition, you mean to say that it is not cheating regardless or it is not cheating if you're not in a committed relationship with someone? And I think it's safe to say most all of the women here would disagree with you also and say it is cheating on them. That's your opinion. This is ours.

Do you realize what you just said here? How in the world could your wife be OK with porn, but it upsets her at the same time? That makes absolutely no sense what so ever.

Because to us, it is! We do not make the distinction you do.

Yeah well perhaps you need to learn a little more about respect. We learned that no one can demand it. It is commanded, and in part like you said, earned. However, showing someone respect is not any reflection on them. It is a reflection on us. Think about that whenever you feel like it's OK to disrespect someone. That really hit my husband like a ton of bricks.

I don't think emotional affairs are common with someone in porn. I think they are more common with someone we know like the friend you just pointed out. Your wife felt threated by her, so I can see why she reacted the way that she did.

 

I FEEL cheated on , simply put , wether an accurate “ definition “ . It was defined after a HUGE dday between us . Not just cheated on , I feel cheated of a life with my husband free from lying . This whole thread is about semantics . In the end a betrayed spouse just wants to be validated , not dismissed . To be given the same respect in the marriage as we have given . My husband does not ejaculate every time he uses . My husband does not picture himself in the sex scenarios he’s watching . As it was with me , it was simply getting turned on by the sexual images . For me porn was in addition to him , for him porn was chosen INSTEAD of me . I can tell you a one night stand would hit differently for me in a POSITIVE way . Because then it would a clear cut GET THE EFF OUT . I wish he had an affair 20 years ago

 

OK, let's be clear here. What would you, collectively as a group, wish to be called? Seriously, I don't consider being called a PA devaluing them any more than calling them an drug addict if they are addicted to drugs. It's not a statement of derogatory judgment. It is a statement of fact. That sounds more like shame to me than it does anything else. My husband didn't like being called a sex addict. But that's what he was. Now he just accepts it for what it was and utilizes it to tell his own story. That's huge and a remarkable understanding on his part. Yes, they are PA. Would you rather me spell it out and say "porn addict"?

As you said, "in my opinion". I'm trying to tell you that most all women would disagree with you on this. It causes deep physiological pain to know that your husband is ejaculating all over the screen at women instead of with you where it belongs. Yes, that's how we feel about it, and no amount of invalidation is going to change that. Please, for the sake of your marriage, learn to validate your wife's feelings. I promise you that you won't regret it.

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Yes I know what you wrote. Either you missed the point entirely or I was unclear in conveying it. Here is what you wrote again...

What I am trying to say is that on one hand, according to your wife, "porn and sex are two different things" and "porn is not cheating on her", yet on the other hand "Still, it upsets her". How can anyone lay claim that it's not cheating and then turn around and say that it upsets her? Why in the hell should she be upset then if it's not cheating? This is why I said that is a contradiction.

You may assume whatever you want. I'm telling you, if you polled the women who have been betrayed in this forum, you'll find most all of them have the same point of view.

No, I meant "us" and "we". "Us" as in me and my husband, the other wives and their husbands, all who went through our program. So no, I didn't mean 'me' and 'I'.

Yeah, well we know why it happened again, and it was because of addiction.

Have a nice day.

 

Yuck , we know there’s nothing we can do to control or change the behavior. We ARE resilient for staying over and over , or dumb . Please rephrase that unless you REALLY think that to be true .

 

I figured that lol I read everything you wrote and I was like there is absolutely no way this man thinks that his wife can help him to not do it again

 

I appreciate your response. Do you think the process of anticipating viewing other women, planning to view other women, sitting in a room with 10 lesbians while you gentle masturbate possibly to orgasm is cheating? You never talk to them, or touch them. They just come to your house when your wife is not present and perform for you.
You do this two or three times a week. Would you consider that a betrayal?
What is the longest you have ever been in sobriety and or recovery?
Much like you, my husband did not view it the same as an affair. He prided himself on how “ faithful” he was. He thought what a great husband he was. Until he got into recovery. Even at 6 months clean he still didn’t view it as cheating. It wasn’t until about 2 years into recovery that his entire mindset changed. I, personally, believe this is one of the single most insidious lies the sex addict tells himself in order to feel a little better about what he’s doing. That shame that drives the addiction is telling the addict what a terrible person he is, but if he can point out “ Well, I don’t have affairs” then he feels a tiny bit better about himself. Or so he thinks. Case in point -one man on here posted about his neighbors affair, he began to talk about the man getting caught and deserved his wife leaving. Then he talked about how he wound never have an affair or cheat on his wife. His only problem was his escort addiction.,Escorts. This man argued with me that he was not cheating because there was no emotional involvement. He really didn’t see it as cheating. SMH.
When you get into recovery, know that many, many things you thought and did will look completely different. You will be completely different. Addiction changes you. So does recovery.

 

Well let's call a spade a spade shall we? I take great exception to you telling me what I think..."the group of men which you value less." I never said that. You conjectured that. Then you go on to say "And when you think...", well here comes the gaslighting. That's what that is whether you choose to believe it or not. When you try to tell us what we think, how we think, what we feel or think, or how we should feel or think, all of that is gaslighting. I specifically asked you

Hey, I'm all for calling you whatever will help you sleep at night and feel good about yourself. But at the end of the day, a PA is a PA is a PA, and by any other name, is still a PA. Does it help you if we sugar coat it? I think it's safe to say, most of those experiencing the effects of sex addiction here are, sex addicts. Not sex compulsions. They depend on that dopamine high. Are you really going to split hairs over it? My experience has been that if we don't come right out and say clearly what it is we are trying to convey, mark my word, it will be weaponized and used against us. Been there, done that, got the T-Shirt.

 

Amen to that!

 

You said “And now comes the interesting part: How to become more resilienttogether against failing, so that itwould not happen again?
I am a little lost at this point.”

I was letting you clarify if you actually believe that . It sounded like that’s not what you meant . That’s all

 

I did not mean it to feel like an execution. I’m not sure where you see these people who join and do 500/800/1000 days clean. That would be exceedingly rare. This addiction has around a 5% long term recovery rate. Most join and quit. Really it’s not about your streak. It’s about facing the addiction, tackling the issues that drive it and getting clean and in long term recovery ( 5+ years). At least you understand how harmful it is. Unfortunately most pa’s have little understanding of the actual pain they cause their partners.

 

This is exhausting. I'm moving on...

 

I guess we will have to disagree again! Lol. I do not think statistics are there to discourage you. I mean if it said 95% get into long term recovery would you get discouraged? It’s data. Not good or bad. However, it could be a driving force in waking you up to the difficulty of kicking this addiction. My sil had a 30% chance to live more than 3 months when diagnosed with cancer, 5% chance to make it 5 years. She died right before the 3 month mark. She fell within the 70% that die. I’m not sure where you are finding people in long term recovery (5 + years). Kropo just hit 5 years, but he has been seriously working recovery not just posting here. Tao is at 3 years I believe, then a handful of others. It’s underwhelming. Statistically speaking you are more likely to relapse after the first 6 months clean, did you know that? My husband relapsed at a year, not uncommon. I don’t feel 500 days is much if you’ve been and addict for 30 years (10,950 days). That’s not success to me. Success is the one who gets into recovery and changes his or her life. I do agree that you should not let the failures of someone else influence you but it should serve as a reminder of how difficult this is.

 

Fantastic article. I used to think it was unfair to call viewing pornography a form of cheating/adultery, but I have changed my stance on this position.

All things have their beginning and end, and no man or woman has ever cheated without first consenting to cheating in their heart. This is where cheating/adultery is conceived, and this remains a fact whether or not it reaches its physical fruition with another person.

 

No, I think it really is on the mark. This is one of those subtle gender differences that we cannot really understand until we see it from a scientific perspective (and even then we don't really understand it, but merely accept it). Read "A billion wicked thoughts", where it is very clearly explained. Here is the most relevant fragment:

The female brain splits conscious psychological arousal apart from unconscious physical arousal, while the male brain unites them. But the male brain splits apart two neural systems that are united in the female brain: sex and romance.

At its core, it really is a misunderstanding of other's nature. He would never "cheat" (by his definition) on her because in his mind psychological arousal (addictor/motivator) has nothing to do with love he feels toward her; it has everything to do with simple visual stimuli (just images/videos) that arouse him physically. She considers porn cheating because in her mind his psychological arousal to other women equals losing him, since she cannot imagine those three things being partitioned so differently. To her, associations are completely reversed.

I'm not saying A and B are objectively equal, whatever that meant. I'm just saying that A seems to women the same as B seems to men. Saying it's not so because to men A and B are obviously different, is really missing the point.