How To Betray Your Wife, Destroy Her Self-Worth And Implode Your Marriage In One Easy Step

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How To Betray Your Wife, Destroy Her Self-Worth And Implode Your Marriage In One Easy Step
By Matt Walsh
I wrote an article a few years ago about a husband’s great need, and right, to be respected by his wife. The article went fairly viral, so I was inundated with hundreds of emails in response to it. To my surprise, and for a refreshing change of pace, most of them were not angry or vulgar. But one theme seemed to emerge from many of the messages I received: a lot of women have trouble respecting their husbands because their husbands spend so much time watching porn.
I maintain, porn or no porn, that husbands should still be treated with respect in their homes. But that does not justify porn, nor does it mitigate the impact it has on a marriage. A man who laughs at the very idea that he may be hurting his wife by watching porn only proves the point. He has become so intensely self-involved that his wife’s needs are a joke to him. Even when she tells him that she is hurt by it, still, he blows her off and returns to the naked people on the screen. In this way, porn is even more insidious than a traditional, in-person affair, because it not only robs the wife of the fidelity and honor she is owed, but it even robs her of the right to feel angry and forsaken by her husband’s infidelity.
Few men, unless they are outright sociopaths, would scoff at their wives for being upset at them for sleeping with the secretary. They are more likely to apologize (whether sincerely or not) and cry and beg for forgiveness. Neither party will deny that the issue is a big deal. But a man who watches porn, though he has committed a form of adultery, is much bolder when confronted. He will defend his actions and actually get outraged at his wife for being outraged. She is left feeling betrayed — and crazy for feeling betrayed.
But she is not crazy.
Her husband is turning — not just once, by the way, but every day — to other women to satisfy his sexual urges. He is cheating on her. There is no nuance to it. She’s right: it’s adultery. He whittles away hours a day sitting in a darkened room pleasuring himself while strangers have sex in front of him. He imagines himself in the place of a naked man on the screen so that he can have vicarious sex with a woman who is not his wife. It’s a big deal. A very big deal. He is not really having sex with her, but so what? Perhaps he would if he had the chance, but he doesn’t, so he settles for the closest thing to it.
The whole activity is entirely selfish, of course. His wife does not exist while he watches porn. Neither do his kids. He blots them out of his mind as he plunges into the internet’s darkest recesses, looking to get his fix in increasingly depraved and exotic ways. He shrugs and yawns at his own unfaithfulness, demanding, almost self-righteously, that his wife just accept this “hobby” of his. “It’s just porn,” he says.
Notice that he would never allow his wife to use a similar argument against him. She could not run off and have a one-night stand with some guy she met at the gym on the basis that it’s “just sex.” But if porn is “just porn,” then why should sex be anything other than “just sex”? A porn user certainly can’t suddenly discover, when it suits him, a newfound appreciation for the sacredness and intimacy of the sexual act. His defense of porn is built on the very premise that watching two people have sex is no more morally significant than watching two geometric shapes bump together. But if that’s all porn is, that’s all sex is. Sex is merely two shapes bumping together. One body part inside of another. It’s just a sensation. Just a romp between the sheets. Just a physical release.
Why get worked up that your wife experienced a temporary physical sensation with another guy? Don’t overreact! It was just for fun! She didn’t love him! Calm down, bud. Why are you getting so bent out of shape? Sex is nothing special, anyway. Isn’t that your point?
Oh, but it’s different when you’re watching, you say. But why? And how far does that logic go? Could you sit in someone’s room, two feet from the bed, and witness the act unfold? Should your wife be OK with that, too? Or is it only acceptable when there’s a screen separating you? OK, then stand out on the porch and look through the window. Is that something your wife ought to tolerate? No? So it must be a digital screen? The digital screen makes it all right?
These rules are rather arbitrary, and apparently designed to justify the particular and specific form of adultery that you enjoy. That doesn’t seem very fair.
Meanwhile, as it erodes the bonds of trust that keep your marriage together, porn also ruins your wife’s self-worth. It’s not hard to see why this happens. A woman will obviously begin to feel inadequate if her husband would dredge the depths of PornHub, searching desperately for literally any woman but his wife to satisfy his urges, rather than enjoy her. Again, a porn habit is arguably worse than a one-off physical affair in this way. After an affair, a wife only feels the need to compare herself to the one woman her husband slept with. If her husband looks at porn, however, she must compare herself to hundreds and hundreds of mistresses, who are all willing to do things she refuses to do and degrade themselves in ways that she will not.
And, as porn causes a wife to feel less attractive to her husband, it also makes her husband less attractive to her. Porn emasculates, and no woman desires an emasculated man. Porn is passive and self-involved — the exact opposite of masculine. A wife finds her husband most desirable when he is doing things, making himself useful, serving, protecting, providing for his family. If you want your wife to see you as a man and feel physically and emotionally attracted to you, go out and do some yard work. Help around the house. Bring home a paycheck. Read to your children. Kill a spider. Go downstairs in the middle of the night to investigate a strange noise. Solve a problem. Lead your family in prayer.
If, instead, you want her to see you as a selfish boy and feel repulsed by you, head to the basement and turn on some porn.
The views expressed in this opinion piece are the author’s own and do not necessarily represent those of The Daily Wire.
 
How To Betray Your Wife, Destroy Her Self-Worth And Implode Your Marriage In One Easy Step
By Matt Walsh
I wrote an article a few years ago about a husband’s great need, and right, to be respected by his wife. The article went fairly viral, so I was inundated with hundreds of emails in response to it. To my surprise, and for a refreshing change of pace, most of them were not angry or vulgar. But one theme seemed to emerge from many of the messages I received: a lot of women have trouble respecting their husbands because their husbands spend so much time watching porn.
I maintain, porn or no porn, that husbands should still be treated with respect in their homes. But that does not justify porn, nor does it mitigate the impact it has on a marriage. A man who laughs at the very idea that he may be hurting his wife by watching porn only proves the point. He has become so intensely self-involved that his wife’s needs are a joke to him. Even when she tells him that she is hurt by it, still, he blows her off and returns to the naked people on the screen. In this way, porn is even more insidious than a traditional, in-person affair, because it not only robs the wife of the fidelity and honor she is owed, but it even robs her of the right to feel angry and forsaken by her husband’s infidelity.
Few men, unless they are outright sociopaths, would scoff at their wives for being upset at them for sleeping with the secretary. They are more likely to apologize (whether sincerely or not) and cry and beg for forgiveness. Neither party will deny that the issue is a big deal. But a man who watches porn, though he has committed a form of adultery, is much bolder when confronted. He will defend his actions and actually get outraged at his wife for being outraged. She is left feeling betrayed — and crazy for feeling betrayed.
But she is not crazy.
Her husband is turning — not just once, by the way, but every day — to other women to satisfy his sexual urges. He is cheating on her. There is no nuance to it. She’s right: it’s adultery. He whittles away hours a day sitting in a darkened room pleasuring himself while strangers have sex in front of him. He imagines himself in the place of a naked man on the screen so that he can have vicarious sex with a woman who is not his wife. It’s a big deal. A very big deal. He is not really having sex with her, but so what? Perhaps he would if he had the chance, but he doesn’t, so he settles for the closest thing to it.
The whole activity is entirely selfish, of course. His wife does not exist while he watches porn. Neither do his kids. He blots them out of his mind as he plunges into the internet’s darkest recesses, looking to get his fix in increasingly depraved and exotic ways. He shrugs and yawns at his own unfaithfulness, demanding, almost self-righteously, that his wife just accept this “hobby” of his. “It’s just porn,” he says.
Notice that he would never allow his wife to use a similar argument against him. She could not run off and have a one-night stand with some guy she met at the gym on the basis that it’s “just sex.” But if porn is “just porn,” then why should sex be anything other than “just sex”? A porn user certainly can’t suddenly discover, when it suits him, a newfound appreciation for the sacredness and intimacy of the sexual act. His defense of porn is built on the very premise that watching two people have sex is no more morally significant than watching two geometric shapes bump together. But if that’s all porn is, that’s all sex is. Sex is merely two shapes bumping together. One body part inside of another. It’s just a sensation. Just a romp between the sheets. Just a physical release.
Why get worked up that your wife experienced a temporary physical sensation with another guy? Don’t overreact! It was just for fun! She didn’t love him! Calm down, bud. Why are you getting so bent out of shape? Sex is nothing special, anyway. Isn’t that your point?
Oh, but it’s different when you’re watching, you say. But why? And how far does that logic go? Could you sit in someone’s room, two feet from the bed, and witness the act unfold? Should your wife be OK with that, too? Or is it only acceptable when there’s a screen separating you? OK, then stand out on the porch and look through the window. Is that something your wife ought to tolerate? No? So it must be a digital screen? The digital screen makes it all right?
These rules are rather arbitrary, and apparently designed to justify the particular and specific form of adultery that you enjoy. That doesn’t seem very fair.
Meanwhile, as it erodes the bonds of trust that keep your marriage together, porn also ruins your wife’s self-worth. It’s not hard to see why this happens. A woman will obviously begin to feel inadequate if her husband would dredge the depths of PornHub, searching desperately for literally any woman but his wife to satisfy his urges, rather than enjoy her. Again, a porn habit is arguably worse than a one-off physical affair in this way. After an affair, a wife only feels the need to compare herself to the one woman her husband slept with. If her husband looks at porn, however, she must compare herself to hundreds and hundreds of mistresses, who are all willing to do things she refuses to do and degrade themselves in ways that she will not.
And, as porn causes a wife to feel less attractive to her husband, it also makes her husband less attractive to her. Porn emasculates, and no woman desires an emasculated man. Porn is passive and self-involved — the exact opposite of masculine. A wife finds her husband most desirable when he is doing things, making himself useful, serving, protecting, providing for his family. If you want your wife to see you as a man and feel physically and emotionally attracted to you, go out and do some yard work. Help around the house. Bring home a paycheck. Read to your children. Kill a spider. Go downstairs in the middle of the night to investigate a strange noise. Solve a problem. Lead your family in prayer.
If, instead, you want her to see you as a selfish boy and feel repulsed by you, head to the basement and turn on some porn.
The views expressed in this opinion piece are the author’s own and do not necessarily represent those of The Daily Wire.
I absolutely love everything he wrote here. So few sex addicts get into long term recovery that it’s hard to see the real actual damage their addiction has caused. I had no idea nor did my husband. Until he got clean. You can tell when he relapses, who he is changes based on where he is at with recovery. He is so utterly selfish when using.
 
The rest of the text misses the point entirely. Sex can not be set equal to porn.

Agreed this part really missed the mark. I have never heard someone describe viewing porn as "just sex". People are more likely to describe viewing porn as "just images/videos" with no interaction with another person... The author makes a really dishonest comparison between a wife who has a one night stand and a husband viewing porn. It would have been much more effective if the author focused on why/how a husband would not be okay with his wife using porn. Describing how the "just images/videos" argument does not hold water if a wife is choosing porn over intimacy, no longer satisfied with husband physically, etc.
 
Very well written and excellent advise up until here.

The rest of the text misses the point entirely. Sex can not be set equal to porn.
Porn use is very problematic. More so in a relationship.
Trying to stress this by arguing that "porn is the same as sex" is not helpful and it does not strengthen the argument.
There are also other assertions and assumptions in the second part that are imo plainly wrong.
Is the second part by the same author or written by someone else?
If the porn use was a one off, the partner was up front about porn use before the marriage or quit immediately upon the partners expression that “ hey this fuc*ing hurts me, it feels like cheating and I no longer feel like I can trust you” that might be different. That is rarely what happens. Like an affair, he is giving his time, sexual energy, thoughts, and sometimes money to other people. If his vows included “ forsaking ALL others” then yes I expect to be the only person he turns to for sexual expression. I expect him to talk to me ( shocker) if we are not connecting in any area of our life and marriage. Seriously, if you don’t think it’s cheating that’s fine but you do not get to tell your partner how they feel. I’ll put it another way- your wife meets up ever day with a man she met just for coffee at Starbucks. You don’t know about it. But as time goes by you realize she is gone longer, doesn’t talk or listen to you, and she’s refusing sex more and more, months on end. She’s completely uninterested in you. You see she goes to coffee a lot and ask her about it, she says she just gets coffee. You ask if she’s having an affair, she denies. So you follow her. You see her with this man and Later you confront her about it and she says “ he’s just a friend I meet for coffee, nothing is going on”. But she’s sneaking out to meet him multiple times a day, sometimes getting up in the middle of the night while you’re sleeping. You ask her not to, she continues and continues to lie to you about it. You tell her it hurts and feels like cheating and she adamantly says nothing is going on, she’s not having sex with him. You want to know why she isn’t home more often, why she’s lying about meeting this person, if there isnt anything going on why won’t she stop? She argues they’re just friends and why are you so jealous, why can’t she have friends? Your relationship continues to get worse but she says everything is fine, but you are miserable. She doesn’t really care about anything except when she will see her friend next. You call the man…. He tells you they have never had sex, they have never touched, never seen each other naked, ever, he doesn’t even know her real name. They just exchange stories, fantasies of what they want, then go home and masturbate to them. You confront her again and she says “ it’s not cheating, it’s not like one I’m having sex with him. I just fantasize about it and thousands of other men, everyone does it”. Then she says “ I love you, I can see how much this hurts you, I really didn’t know, I’ll stop seeing him”. You feel better, things get better for a while and you think they no longer see each other. Things aren’t great, she is home more often, but then she starts staying away more and more, telling you it’s work, so you start getting a feeling, you think you’re crazy, so you swing by her work and there she is having lunch with the man. You have 3 children, she earns triple what you do ( you just work on the side because someone had to be home with the kids) and she owns the house you live in. You don’t even own a car because she insisted she could pay cash rather than get a loan so it had to be in her name. You completely trusted her. Until now. You feel trapped. I personally feel porn is as bad if not worse than sex. Because of this. You think it is not as bad. Why isn’t it as bad? If I robbed you blind while married, hiding the money would that be different than if I broke in and stole from a stranger? Technically, all the money is “ ours” so I’m not stealing even if I lie to you about it, right? Again, that’s your right to not think if it as cheating but if your partner feels it is cheating, ( man or woman, and yes men can feel the same) then to them it is. Hell just don’t get married or a long term supposedly honest committed relationship. Go have all the solo sex you want, you can cam, see hookers, you can act out every sexual fantasy you want but don’t drag someone else into your life. Be a decent person and think about how they feel, not just what you want.
 
As I wrote, I think that consuming porn is very problematic in various ways. By doing so, you hurt yourself and others.

But, consuming pornographic images on a screen is not the same as having physical intercourse with somebody.
You wrote yourself that it is not the same but probably worse.

I think you are right; physical sex (with a healthy person) is more healthy than becoming addicted to porn and you can not have it as frequent and as easy as porn; on the other hand, porn does not hold the risk of contracting a sexually transmitted disease; being addicted to something is not the same as having an affair;... the list can go on. You should do neither - but they are different things. If the author believes that having an affair equals consuming porn, he did not understand the nature of the problem. Comparing apples with oranges never strengthens an argument. I still maintain this opinion.

Indeed, in the first part, the author appears to agree:


It is not me saying that porn is somehow a lesser evil. Instead, this is the message transported by the second part of the text. The author seems to be of the opinion that his audience will perceive porn consumption as nothing serious. For this reason, he is trying to equate porn consumption with having extramartial sex, which his audience likely will disgust. To me, this weakens the argument. The first part of the text is excellent and to-the-point. The second part is weird and hand-waving.

I think I understand from where you are coming and that you say "but for me, I don't want him to consume porn and I also don't want him to have an affair, so therefore consuming porn and having an affair are the same". I just think that this leads to the wrong conclusions. Imo, compulsive porn consumption is more harmful and more problematic to the relationship and to the individual. For instance, it is easier to stop the affair - either way - than to stop consuming porn. And because the mechanisms behind the husband having an affair and the husband having problems avoiding porn are completely different, acknowledging that these are two different problems helps in understanding the mechanisms behind and in fighting and overcoming the problem.
Do you believe that having solo sex with yourself while imagining you’re with someone else is betraying your partner? Maybe that’s where we really have a difference of opinion. I think it is cheating., my husband vowed to forsake all others. Then proceeded to pretend to be faithful because he “ hadn’t” touched another person. Why are emotional affairs even a thing? No sex involved, it shouldn’t hurt right? Too many porn addicts want to minimize the hurt and betrayal by saying “ well at least I didn’t cheat” and take great pride in that fact. I think here, he’s really pointing out, that of your partner feels like it’s cheating then you cannot tell her it’s not. You have the right to disagree, but you do not have the right to tell her how to feel.
 
Trying to stress this by arguing that "porn is the same as sex" is not helpful and it does not strengthen the argument.
Not helpful to who? Pay attention, because this is a poignant moment for you men who are PA. You're getting a wealth of knowledge here, and you are dismissing it and invalidating the author. Sorry you see it that way, but I vehemently disagree with you. As the sex addict, you aren't the one suffering our consequences for that which we played no part in.
Agreed this part really missed the mark. I have never heard someone describe viewing porn as "just sex". People are more likely to describe viewing porn as "just images/videos" with no interaction with another person... The author makes a really dishonest comparison between a wife who has a one night stand and a husband viewing porn. It would have been much more effective if the author focused on why/how a husband would not be okay with his wife using porn. Describing how the "just images/videos" argument does not hold water if a wife is choosing porn over intimacy, no longer satisfied with husband physically, etc.
You too are dismissing it and invalidating the author. Don't you get it? We view it as one and the same, or worse. How do you think that makes us feel when you just more or less tell us we don't know what we are talking about? You missed the whole point entirely. I understood the author to mean that "what if we presented that argument to you as our husband that it was 'just sex' if we went out "? Not to imply someone describes viewing porn as just sex. You would be upset if we went out and just had sex wouldn't you? I don't understand where you're coming from. And just for the record, it isn't us choosing porn over intimacy. No, we're not interested in having sex with a man who has sex with hundreds of women, porn, affair, or otherwise.
Seriously, if you don’t think it’s cheating that’s fine but you do not get to tell your partner how they feel.
Right! That's gaslighting.
I think you are right; physical sex (with a healthy person) is more healthy than becoming addicted to porn and you can not have it as frequent and as easy as porn; on the other hand, porn does not hold the risk of contracting a sexually transmitted disease; being addicted to something is not the same as having an affair;... the list can go on. You should do neither - but they are different things. If the author believes that having an affair equals consuming porn, he did not understand the nature of the problem. Comparing apples with oranges never strengthens an argument. I still maintain this opinion.
This kinda makes me laugh because it made me think back to a scene in a movie where he stabbed the man in the stomach with a sword and then said "well at least I didn't use a spoon". The end result is the same and just as devastating. It doesn't matter whether or not if porn does not hold the risk of contracting a sexually transmitted disease. Neither does abstinence. It's an extremely weak argument for a very weak case.
It is not me saying that porn is somehow a lesser evil. Instead, this is the message transported by the second part of the text. The author seems to be of the opinion that his audience will perceive porn consumption as nothing serious.
Could it be that that's because we as a society have normalized it as such?
Imo, compulsive porn consumption is more harmful and more problematic to the relationship and to the individual. For instance, it is easier to stop the affair - either way - than to stop consuming porn.
I think you may be right about this.
Do you believe that having solo sex with yourself while imagining you’re with someone else is betraying your partner? Maybe that’s where we really have a difference of opinion. I think it is cheating., my husband vowed to forsake all others. Then proceeded to pretend to be faithful because he “ hadn’t” touched another person. Why are emotional affairs even a thing? No sex involved, it shouldn’t hurt right? Too many porn addicts want to minimize the hurt and betrayal by saying “ well at least I didn’t cheat” and take great pride in that fact. I think here, he’s really pointing out, that of your partner feels like it’s cheating then you cannot tell her it’s not. You have the right to disagree, but you do not have the right to tell her how to feel.
I had this exact scenario with my husband. He used that very argument. One day when he was going through his program he came up to me and apologized for cheating. It was one of many turning points in our recoveries. It doesn't matter if he thinks it's cheating. If we think it's cheating, then it's cheating.
I believe you imagine the situation of consuming porn different than me. "Solo sex" is not accurate imo (because there is no sex), neither is "imagining to be with someone" (because indeed consuming porn is very egoistic and self-focused). Sex is not the same as ejaculate and consuming porn does not necessarily mean ejaculating. I believe that most men are quite well able to distinguish between 'being intimate with someone and maybe also having sex with that person', and 'jerking off' or 'consuming pornographic content'. Being aroused by pornographic content need not imply an "imagining to be with the performer".

The action is wrong and there is no excuse. But betray is not the right term imo. However, I accept that it is betrayal for you and that is OK for me too. I am no lawyer, so for me, this is just a label. Important is that the action it is wrong.
Just WOW! I cannot even... Let's not play semantics here. "Solo sex" aka masturbation by any other name is still masturbation. Are we really going to go there? If you're not imaging being with someone else, that someone being on your screen in front of you, why don't you just jerk off to a chocolate chip cookie or something then? I mean if you're not imagining to be with someone what the hell is the point of watching that trash anyway? Do you know anyone who watches porn and doesn't ejaculate? I believe most men are not capable of distinguishing between being intimate with someone and maybe also having sex with that person. Most men objectify that person for the purpose of jerking off, producing an orgasm, and getting that dopamine hit. That is most men who are PA.
It is just a name/label, but true. Cheating does not seem the right term to me when we talk about consuming porn. But I know that you call it cheating, so I can translate and I accept that it is cheating for you. In any case, consuming porn should not happen, as it is harmful - even if there is no partner involved and then maybe you would not call it cheating. But especially in a relationship it should not happen and it is obvious that the wife will not be happy about it - so there is no excuse. Continuing to do it, even try to keep it secret, etc. is plain wrong. I think we agree on everything, just the label/name.
So by your definition, you mean to say that it is not cheating regardless or it is not cheating if you're not in a committed relationship with someone? And I think it's safe to say most all of the women here would disagree with you also and say it is cheating on them. That's your opinion. This is ours.
For my wife, porn and sex are two different things and porn is not cheating to her. Still, it upsets her, so then we can call it cheating or something else
Do you realize what you just said here? How in the world could your wife be OK with porn, but it upsets her at the same time? That makes absolutely no sense what so ever.
And, they distract from the nature of pornography addiction by setting it equal to having an affair.
Because to us, it is! We do not make the distinction you do.
This should be very conditional imo - You do not need to respect somebody if that person does not behave accordingly. Respect imo is always earned - it does not come for free with the marriage. But ok, it simply expresses the authors opinion.
Yeah well perhaps you need to learn a little more about respect. We learned that no one can demand it. It is commanded, and in part like you said, earned. However, showing someone respect is not any reflection on them. It is a reflection on us. Think about that whenever you feel like it's OK to disrespect someone. That really hit my husband like a ton of bricks.
Emotional affairs are very problematic - I agree. I do have a hard time imagining that somebody develops an emotional affair with a porn performer, but there seem to be such cases. In any case, if the emotional bond is lost, the relationship is very likely over. This is irrespective of whether porn or sex is involved or even none of both. (I got my own taste on this when some years back a very good friend of mine suddenly told me she thinks that we were too close to be just friends. I was so surprised because there was nothing at all, only a light hug for greetings and I had not even noticed how she felt. I told the friend that this is not how I saw our relationship and informed my wife on the same day. My wife took this very seriously (naive as I am, I was surprised because it meant nothing for me). The friend I now hardly see anymore. Emotional affairs can happen easily even without noticing and likely/sadly break the connection between people)
I don't think emotional affairs are common with someone in porn. I think they are more common with someone we know like the friend you just pointed out. Your wife felt threated by her, so I can see why she reacted the way that she did.
 
I FEEL cheated on , simply put , wether an accurate “ definition “ . It was defined after a HUGE dday between us . Not just cheated on , I feel cheated of a life with my husband free from lying . This whole thread is about semantics . In the end a betrayed spouse just wants to be validated , not dismissed . To be given the same respect in the marriage as we have given . My husband does not ejaculate every time he uses . My husband does not picture himself in the sex scenarios he’s watching . As it was with me , it was simply getting turned on by the sexual images . For me porn was in addition to him , for him porn was chosen INSTEAD of me . I can tell you a one night stand would hit differently for me in a POSITIVE way . Because then it would a clear cut GET THE EFF OUT . I wish he had an affair 20 years ago :)
 
Even those which you try to devalue by calling them PAs
OK, let's be clear here. What would you, collectively as a group, wish to be called? Seriously, I don't consider being called a PA devaluing them any more than calling them an drug addict if they are addicted to drugs. It's not a statement of derogatory judgment. It is a statement of fact. That sounds more like shame to me than it does anything else. My husband didn't like being called a sex addict. But that's what he was. Now he just accepts it for what it was and utilizes it to tell his own story. That's huge and a remarkable understanding on his part. Yes, they are PA. Would you rather me spell it out and say "porn addict"?
I don't understand why it is so important to nail down 'porn=cheating' 'porn=lying' 'porn=infidelity' 'porn=affair' 'porn=sex' 'porn=you-name-it'. In my opinion these are all inaccurate. But I acknowledge that this is how you feel about it. And in the end, that is what is important - right? not how we name it. I tried to say that I don't care what name you give to it. Consuming porn is extremely harmful to the person consuming and to her/his environment.
As you said, "in my opinion". I'm trying to tell you that most all women would disagree with you on this. It causes deep physiological pain to know that your husband is ejaculating all over the screen at women instead of with you where it belongs. Yes, that's how we feel about it, and no amount of invalidation is going to change that. Please, for the sake of your marriage, learn to validate your wife's feelings. I promise you that you won't regret it.
Indeed, please note that I did not write that she is OK with it. I wrote that she is upset (which is about the opposite of being OK) and therefore that it is my duty to take action to stop. She had the assumption that 'all men do porn' and so she had somehow expected it would be the same for me even before I told her. That does not mean she is OK with it, but on the other hand, she did not assume that all men have an affair. Therefore I was writing, porn and sex are different things for her.
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Yes I know what you wrote. Either you missed the point entirely or I was unclear in conveying it. Here is what you wrote again...
For my wife, porn and sex are two different things and porn is not cheating to her. Still, it upsets her, so then we can call it cheating or something else - I simply need to stop it.
What I am trying to say is that on one hand, according to your wife, "porn and sex are two different things" and "porn is not cheating on her", yet on the other hand "Still, it upsets her". How can anyone lay claim that it's not cheating and then turn around and say that it upsets her? Why in the hell should she be upset then if it's not cheating? This is why I said that is a contradiction.
That is OK (though I assume you also may speak only for yourself), but I still maintain that the first part of the text is very strong and to-the-point. The second part makes assertions and assumptions which are not generally accurate. Thereby it weakens the argument.
You may assume whatever you want. I'm telling you, if you polled the women who have been betrayed in this forum, you'll find most all of them have the same point of view.
I think we agree in what we wrote. (though, you should not write 'us' and 'we' when you mean 'me' and 'I'; Also, mind that gender does not make a difference when it comes to respect.)
No, I meant "us" and "we". "Us" as in me and my husband, the other wives and their husbands, all who went through our program. So no, I didn't mean 'me' and 'I'.
"Yes, I fully agree and this is what I want. - I can not explain why it happened again"
Yeah, well we know why it happened again, and it was because of addiction.

Have a nice day.
 
Yuck , we know there’s nothing we can do to control or change the behavior. We ARE resilient for staying over and over , or dumb . Please rephrase that unless you REALLY think that to be true .
 
I appreciate your response. Do you think the process of anticipating viewing other women, planning to view other women, sitting in a room with 10 lesbians while you gentle masturbate possibly to orgasm is cheating? You never talk to them, or touch them. They just come to your house when your wife is not present and perform for you.
You do this two or three times a week. Would you consider that a betrayal?
What is the longest you have ever been in sobriety and or recovery?
Much like you, my husband did not view it the same as an affair. He prided himself on how “ faithful” he was. He thought what a great husband he was. Until he got into recovery. Even at 6 months clean he still didn’t view it as cheating. It wasn’t until about 2 years into recovery that his entire mindset changed. I, personally, believe this is one of the single most insidious lies the sex addict tells himself in order to feel a little better about what he’s doing. That shame that drives the addiction is telling the addict what a terrible person he is, but if he can point out “ Well, I don’t have affairs” then he feels a tiny bit better about himself. Or so he thinks. Case in point -one man on here posted about his neighbors affair, he began to talk about the man getting caught and deserved his wife leaving. Then he talked about how he wound never have an affair or cheat on his wife. His only problem was his escort addiction.,Escorts. This man argued with me that he was not cheating because there was no emotional involvement. He really didn’t see it as cheating. SMH.
When you get into recovery, know that many, many things you thought and did will look completely different. You will be completely different. Addiction changes you. So does recovery.
 
That is OK, you can call me what you like. Just in that moment you were not using PA to me but the group of men which you value less. And when you think that the male people here may not appreciate being called PA, why do you use it still? Maybe I was wrong. (I prefer to assume 'compulsive' behavior over 'addictive' behavior, but that just because it helps me mentally to maintain stronger resistance in fighting - but of course you choose)
Well let's call a spade a spade shall we? I take great exception to you telling me what I think..."the group of men which you value less." I never said that. You conjectured that. Then you go on to say "And when you think...", well here comes the gaslighting. That's what that is whether you choose to believe it or not. When you try to tell us what we think, how we think, what we feel or think, or how we should feel or think, all of that is gaslighting. I specifically asked you
What would you, collectively as a group, wish to be called?
Hey, I'm all for calling you whatever will help you sleep at night and feel good about yourself. But at the end of the day, a PA is a PA is a PA, and by any other name, is still a PA. Does it help you if we sugar coat it? I think it's safe to say, most of those experiencing the effects of sex addiction here are, sex addicts. Not sex compulsions. They depend on that dopamine high. Are you really going to split hairs over it? My experience has been that if we don't come right out and say clearly what it is we are trying to convey, mark my word, it will be weaponized and used against us. Been there, done that, got the T-Shirt.
 
I appreciate your response. Do you think the process of anticipating viewing other women, planning to view other women, sitting in a room with 10 lesbians while you gentle masturbate possibly to orgasm is cheating? You never talk to them, or touch them. They just come to your house when your wife is not present and perform for you.
You do this two or three times a week. Would you consider that a betrayal?
What is the longest you have ever been in sobriety and or recovery?
Much like you, my husband did not view it the same as an affair. He prided himself on how “ faithful” he was. He thought what a great husband he was. Until he got into recovery. Even at 6 months clean he still didn’t view it as cheating. It wasn’t until about 2 years into recovery that his entire mindset changed. I, personally, believe this is one of the single most insidious lies the sex addict tells himself in order to feel a little better about what he’s doing. That shame that drives the addiction is telling the addict what a terrible person he is, but if he can point out “ Well, I don’t have affairs” then he feels a tiny bit better about himself. Or so he thinks. Case in point -one man on here posted about his neighbors affair, he began to talk about the man getting caught and deserved his wife leaving. Then he talked about how he wound never have an affair or cheat on his wife. His only problem was his escort addiction.,Escorts. This man argued with me that he was not cheating because there was no emotional involvement. He really didn’t see it as cheating. SMH.
When you get into recovery, know that many, many things you thought and did will look completely different. You will be completely different. Addiction changes you. So does recovery.
Amen to that!
 
You said “And now comes the interesting part: How to become more resilienttogether against failing, so that itwould not happen again?
I am a little lost at this point.”

I was letting you clarify if you actually believe that . It sounded like that’s not what you meant . That’s all
 
This feels a little like an execution, but ok, let's go through this.
First, I don't know why it is important to nail it to these terms like cheating/betrayal etc. but ok:

Cheating for me is to have an affair with a physical person and involving an emotional connection.
Extramartial sex without emotional connection to the other person I would think is betrayal.
In any case, what you describe sounds mean and very wrong activity. The husband should be ashamed of himself if he does so - regardless of how he calls it.

Betrayal: For me is abuse of trust or breach of fidelity, which I would find an accurate description of the activity you described. His action would be breach of fidelity already at the first time acting out. It becomes continued abuse of trust if you continue to do it over a longer period.

Longest time of not consuming porn: most recent ones which I still remember are 158days (or similar) in 21/22, and 367 days in 20/21, 5 or 6 months periods are more often than longer ones, however, this is indeed the very first time I ever listed or wrote about it - because you asked me. Otherwise, I rather try to forget these. There is no point in carrying these numbers before you because indeed they are records of failure. Whatever has been in the past does not count anymore once you relapse. My current record is only few days old and that is where I have to focus on. It is more important how you constantly work on yourself and improve than how long single-time record you can boast.

Maybe the brief difference here is that I never ever thought that porn is OK. I have always loathed it but during my teenage time I have been more religious and, you know, "you are forgiven everything when you are just honest about it to god". So, I cradled this little secret which I only had to share with god (effectively with myself :D ) for long enough before I realized that I have developed a problem. Since then, I had to gradually overcome some further religion-induced misconceptions about sexuality before I was in a position to start to make actual progress. I am concerned about many things - the effect on my wife, my kids, myself, our relationship, my job, etc. - that is true, but I am confident and I see that I am making progress. It would obviously be better had I already left porn behind, but I can only work with the reality and that is improving, though slowly.
There is enough people here who start nofap with their first post and then go 500/800/1000+ days with not a single relapse. That is adorable, however, my story is different and I can not do anything else but constantly improve further. If I continue with the progress I had over the past years, I will make it eventually, that I am confident in. ;).

Another thing about recovery: it is a long process and relapses are unfortunately part of it. Just because I am resetting my day counter with every relapse, does not mean that I am not on a path of recovery. As I wrote before, we should not value the credibility and opinion of others based on whether they are PA or whether they have a long streak or short one. You don't suddenly erase your mind and change your opinion when you relapse.
(If I may, and I really mean well by writing this: Recovery and healing also includes to overcome prejudices formed as a protection during traumatic experiences)
I did not mean it to feel like an execution. I’m not sure where you see these people who join and do 500/800/1000 days clean. That would be exceedingly rare. This addiction has around a 5% long term recovery rate. Most join and quit. Really it’s not about your streak. It’s about facing the addiction, tackling the issues that drive it and getting clean and in long term recovery ( 5+ years). At least you understand how harmful it is. Unfortunately most pa’s have little understanding of the actual pain they cause their partners.
 
Just kidding - felt a little weird with so many confrontations from you and others :). But I enjoyed thinking about each of them. So it was good.

You are more at home here than me, so probably you know, but if you go wander in the journals of members that are around for a while, a good number of posts are from people with 500+ days. Or, find a person with 500+ days and follow where they have posted - you will find many more members that stand at that number. Every now and then there is also a post in the success stories.

I don't care the statistics. They are just there to discourage. And it depends on how you read them: how many of those 5% have started NoFap in one way or the other? I would argue an overwhelming share of them. How many people have the same profession as I have? maybe just 5% too? How many people intentionally sold their car at 40 to instead go by foot and bicycle henceforth? maybe 5%? What fraction of the population has never done drugs, does not smoke, drink no alcohol, or coffee? Maybe also only 5%. And I am one of them :) How many 40+ year olds have never owned a TV? maybe 5%? What fraction of the population in western countries does not own a smartphone? I just need to ask the right questions to belong to a lot of 5% groups - Not important what 95% of the population does, as long as I make sure to be among the other 200kM males ;) :p. Here is another statistic: 90% of the adult male population has consumed porn within the last 6 months. I like this one more because it sounds more motivating than the 5% statistic: already after 6 months you can consider yourself to belong to an elitist group of only 10% of all males.
But statistic is not important - What counts is what you make out of your very individual opportunities. I can anyway not influence how the other non-successful 95% of the population will behave :D
I guess we will have to disagree again! Lol. I do not think statistics are there to discourage you. I mean if it said 95% get into long term recovery would you get discouraged? It’s data. Not good or bad. However, it could be a driving force in waking you up to the difficulty of kicking this addiction. My sil had a 30% chance to live more than 3 months when diagnosed with cancer, 5% chance to make it 5 years. She died right before the 3 month mark. She fell within the 70% that die. I’m not sure where you are finding people in long term recovery (5 + years). Kropo just hit 5 years, but he has been seriously working recovery not just posting here. Tao is at 3 years I believe, then a handful of others. It’s underwhelming. Statistically speaking you are more likely to relapse after the first 6 months clean, did you know that? My husband relapsed at a year, not uncommon. I don’t feel 500 days is much if you’ve been and addict for 30 years (10,950 days). That’s not success to me. Success is the one who gets into recovery and changes his or her life. I do agree that you should not let the failures of someone else influence you but it should serve as a reminder of how difficult this is.
 
Fantastic article. I used to think it was unfair to call viewing pornography a form of cheating/adultery, but I have changed my stance on this position.

All things have their beginning and end, and no man or woman has ever cheated without first consenting to cheating in their heart. This is where cheating/adultery is conceived, and this remains a fact whether or not it reaches its physical fruition with another person.
 
Agreed this part really missed the mark. I have never heard someone describe viewing porn as "just sex". People are more likely to describe viewing porn as "just images/videos" with no interaction with another person... The author makes a really dishonest comparison between a wife who has a one night stand and a husband viewing porn. It would have been much more effective if the author focused on why/how a husband would not be okay with his wife using porn. Describing how the "just images/videos" argument does not hold water if a wife is choosing porn over intimacy, no longer satisfied with husband physically, etc.

No, I think it really is on the mark. This is one of those subtle gender differences that we cannot really understand until we see it from a scientific perspective (and even then we don't really understand it, but merely accept it). Read "A billion wicked thoughts", where it is very clearly explained. Here is the most relevant fragment:

The female brain splits conscious psychological arousal apart from unconscious physical arousal, while the male brain unites them. But the male brain splits apart two neural systems that are united in the female brain: sex and romance.

At its core, it really is a misunderstanding of other's nature. He would never "cheat" (by his definition) on her because in his mind psychological arousal (addictor/motivator) has nothing to do with love he feels toward her; it has everything to do with simple visual stimuli (just images/videos) that arouse him physically. She considers porn cheating because in her mind his psychological arousal to other women equals losing him, since she cannot imagine those three things being partitioned so differently. To her, associations are completely reversed.

I'm not saying A and B are objectively equal, whatever that meant. I'm just saying that A seems to women the same as B seems to men. Saying it's not so because to men A and B are obviously different, is really missing the point.
 
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