I don't even like women anymore

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Fapstronaut
I've been feeling like shit for these past few weeks, so I just decided to come here and ask for some advice.

For the past few months I've been browsing some incel forums everyday. I find that I am able to relate to the people there. That being because we are all virgins who share a variety of issues. However, I find that my mental state has been deteriorating more and more. I feel like shit and have low energy and motivation I've always had low confidence and self esteem, but now any remnant of that has been eviscerated and replaced with pure self-hatred. I am able to pick apart a variety of flaws with my own appearance and it just makes me depressed and frustrated. As a matter of fact, every time I see a person I begin picking apart flaws.

Not only that, but I am at a point where I dislike women to say the least. I'm sure they also hate me as well. Anyways, I don't trust a women's word at all. They'll say one thing but do something else entirely. I don't even think the average women is capable of love. I have a variety of other 'negative' opinions about women but I"d rather say anymore. I think my family is starting to notice this change but I try to hide it to my best ability.

Ultimately, I'd rather not think like this but I don't know if it's possible to change.
 
if your trying to find a relationship with a girl and you are still fapping, forget about it. with fapping your programing your brain with instant pleasure, and nothing is instant with girls. For now you need to focus on yourself. DO NOT put yourself down thats worst thing you can do. what your experiencing is the domino affect, and fapping was the first domino that feel over, it will manipulate everything and thats the reason what your feeling, again focus on what you can and would like to do, build yourself up again, talk with people you can trust on this issue, especially family like your parents. This will all take time and it is definitely possible to change, good luck, God bless
 
First of all, it's absolutely possible to change.

What you're experiencing is what porn and masturbating does to you. Porn teaches you that women should be a certain way, and that you need to have instant gratification. And if that isn't there then you don't want it because, well...you have porn, so why would you?

That's why the porn and masturbating has to go! It hijacks the reward system on your brain, keeping you in an endless loop of stimulus, leaving you tired, and feeling like you don't ever need to do anything else because you already have your reward.

Think of it in terms of this example. Let's say you tell a kid, listen you're going to do your chores, and then you get a snack or ice cream or something. Then, they would be motivated to do something, in this case their chores. After that, they get the reward. On the flip side, let's say they already had a stock pile of this reward somewhere else, and more of it than you're offering. Why would they take yours if they already have it, and more of it? That's what is happening with porn. You already have the reward being offered, so why do anything?

It's time to quit porn and masturbating for good! We're all in this together. ;)
 
Anagram said:
I've been feeling like shit for these past few weeks, so I just decided to come here and ask for some advice.

For the past few months I've been browsing some incel forums everyday. I find that I am able to relate to the people there. That being because we are all virgins who share a variety of issues. However, I find that my mental state has been deteriorating more and more. I feel like shit and have low energy and motivation I've always had low confidence and self esteem, but now any remnant of that has been eviscerated and replaced with pure self-hatred. I am able to pick apart a variety of flaws with my own appearance and it just makes me depressed and frustrated. As a matter of fact, every time I see a person I begin picking apart flaws.

Not only that, but I am at a point where I dislike women to say the least. I'm sure they also hate me as well. Anyways, I don't trust a women's word at all. They'll say one thing but do something else entirely. I don't even think the average women is capable of love. I have a variety of other 'negative' opinions about women but I"d rather say anymore. I think my family is starting to notice this change but I try to hide it to my best ability.

Ultimately, I'd rather not think like this but I don't know if it's possible to change.
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Change is very possible if your willing to put the work in. I have very low confidence but after spending time working on myself and Improving my social skills things are very different for me. Social skills are learnable skills just like riding a bike or learning to do math. You're lucky because in the past incels were stuck but now there is a wealth of excellent materials that teach incels the basics of social dynamics that will tell them specifically why they are incels and give them step by step plans on how to improve.

Some women suck and a superficial greedy shallow bitches but there are also great women who are caring and have awesome personalites. Whether you want to engage with women or not, improving your social skills and learning to enjoy people will make you happier and give you more options as well as allow you to improver your outlook on life.
 
LonelyStrength said:
build yourself up again, talk with people you can trust on this issue, especially family like your parents.
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I don't have anyone to truly talk to. I have no friends and I've never discussed any remotely serious subjects with my family. I've always kept my genuine beliefs and feelings out of anyone's knowledge. I'm just too anxious and high inhibition to discuss these subjects in person. Hell, I've never literally talked to someone online about this. I'm still going to try and build myself up but it's going to be extremely difficult.

TrumanBurbank said:
It's time to quit porn and masturbating for good! We're all in this together.
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Thank you for your encouragement. I don't know if porn is the main problem for me but I will agree that it is a problem needing to be resolved. I'll try my best to quit PMO.

The Unfadeable said:
I have very low confidence but after spending time working on myself and Improving my social skills things are very different for me.
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Well I'm glad and partially eased that you were able to increase your confidence. I hope that am I able to gain any semblance of confidence.

The Unfadeable said:
there is a wealth of excellent materials that teach incels the basics of social dynamics that will tell them specifically why they are incels and give them step by step plans on how to improve.
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The majority of us incels are incels simply because of our appearance. A lot of them including me until recently have simply just given up trying to better ourselves. That being because it's seen as futile since we're genetic trash. I'd suggest researching the blackpill but at the same time I wouldn't. The blackpill has destroyed me since it support some very depressing and taboo ideas.

Infrasapiens said:
Stay away from any kind of incel related thing if you are feeling down
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That's probably for the better but part of me is comforted by it. Why shouldn't identify myself as an Incel if I fit the description? I guess it has a bad connotation but that sucks considering that incels are generally decent people.
 
It's no wonder that you're feeling like a complete loser if you're checking out incel forums. Those guys live to hate, both women and competent men, and live to blame the world for their problems instead of taking responsibility.
Stay away from those places. Concentrate on empowering yourself, on bettering yourself.
 
Anagram said:
Why shouldn't identify myself as an Incel if I fit the description?
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I'm gonna be as blunt as possible:
- you're seeking validation outside your own being (identification with a loosely described group of people; for me you're a man in emotional pain, not an incel);
- you're not genetic trash, that's total bullshit and I don't know who convinced you with that
- you identify yourself by absurd measures (being a virgin, looks)

I'd probably fit the description as well, I don't look good at all, but do I identify myself as such? If a woman looks at me only because of my looks, then I'd be very happy to not have anything to do with her.

Straight forward suggestion: seek the attention of a therapist. You're likely to be severely depressed and you need not to.

Somewhere along the road of your childhood someone didn't give you the attention you needed to have, they left you to your own. You developed a strategy to cope with this situation, by closing in on yourself; this strategy helped you as a child, but now it's wreaking havoc in your life and the strategy needs to be revisited. Your self hatred stems from the fact that you are blaming yourself for how your care givers behaved towards you.

Because of probably a very lonely childhood without much way of finding out new things in life, you didn't develop a sense of identity, what you like, what you don't like. Probably you didn't have friends in your childhood and you started to identify yourself with the group that accepted you, because that was a survival mechanism. Healthy at that stage, but unhealthy now.

Here's some reading I think might help you:
https://www.nofap.com/forum/index.php?threads/a-primer-on-dealing-with-negative-emotions.235876/

https://www.nofap.com/forum/index.p...ilosophy-for-a-good-life.235280/#post-2083496
 
I can totally relate to you.

I used to spend lots of time laying/sitting around thinking about how big a loser I am, how women all hate me, and what a lousy set of cards I’ve been dealt with in life.

I would read/watch online material that helped keep me in that mindset.

My thoughts were deteriorating steadily. They included: I can’t do anything except watch porn and jack, I have no other choice, wish I was dead, how can I do it, and even started coming up with a plan.

My mind was twisted.

I still had sense enough to see how messed up I was and went to a therapist which ended up being a huge help.

That has been suggested already and I think it’s a great idea if you can afford it, seek out a good therapist. It’s amazing how much it helped.

If you can’t afford it I say the first step you need to take is stop reading/watching the negative material and start filling your mind with good material.

(I’m making the assumption that you posted because you’re seriously looking for suggestions)

Here’s my suggestion for starting to fill your mind with good material:

1) A big help for me in the beginning of this campaign was watching “Mindful Habit Life Coaching” videos on YouTube. You don’t have to buy the guy’s program. It’s very expensive. I read the reviews for it and it seems good but I got a lot of help from just the free videos.

As far as good reading material I suggest reading the articles at FightTheNewDrug.org. It’s a website about getting away from porn addiction.

Stay away from the anti-women material out there. I can’t say it enough times, women aren’t all out to destroy men. They are people. Some are bad, some are good.

2) Force yourself to get out and meet people. I’ve started using Meetup.com to get out and socialize. It’s been a good help in getting in touch with reality. The media is pumping garbage into our heads. We need to get out and meet people.

3) Stop making excuses. I did for decades and am in my 50’s way behind the curve. But we all need to start somewhere. You will not make any progress as long as you make excuses. You only can get your butt in gear and make changes. Others can only give suggestions. No one is going to have a magic word for you that’s going to make everything better. You need to act on good advice and make the necessary changes.

Best wishes to you!
 
properWood said:
- you're not genetic trash, that's total bullshit and I don't know who convinced you with that
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I convinced myself of that since I have no self esteem. In addition, it's because nobody outside my family cares about me.

properWood said:
- you identify yourself by absurd measures (being a virgin, looks)
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These are the measures that society, especially women, care about. That's why I care about them.

properWood said:
Straight forward suggestion: seek the attention of a therapist. You're likely to be severely depressed and you need not to.
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Therapy is seen as a waste of time and money. Even then, I'm scared to see a therapist since it's embarrassing, shameful, uncomfortable, and awkward. It could go terribly wrong. Not only that, but you're not supposed to reveal any signs of weakness to anybody in real life. Likewise, I don't like using the term depressed because the term is often overused by people who aren't depressed. I feel terrible and sometimes suicidal but since I have never been diagnosed I don't use the term.

You are scarily accurate about my childhood. My childhood from the age of 6 consisted of going to school and spacing out and coming home and playing video games. To which, I had amassed around thousands of hours on an MMORPG by the age of 11. My parents are good people but I didn't talk to my dad that much until 5th grade because he was working and going to college at the same time. As a result he'd come home at the same time I went to sleep. I had a single friend from 1st to 3rd grade but then he moved and I never saw him again. Since then I've never had a 'true' friend or a relationship with anyone outside of my family.
 
Anagram said:
I don't have anyone to truly talk to. I have no friends and I've never discussed any remotely serious subjects with my family. I've always kept my genuine beliefs and feelings out of anyone's knowledge. I'm just too anxious and high inhibition to discuss these subjects in person. Hell, I've never literally talked to someone online about this. I'm still going to try and build myself up but it's going to be extremely difficult.


Thank you for your encouragement. I don't know if porn is the main problem for me but I will agree that it is a problem needing to be resolved. I'll try my best to quit PMO.


Well I'm glad and partially eased that you were able to increase your confidence. I hope that am I able to gain any semblance of confidence.


The majority of us incels are incels simply because of our appearance. A lot of them including me until recently have simply just given up trying to better ourselves. That being because it's seen as futile since we're genetic trash. I'd suggest researching the blackpill but at the same time I wouldn't. The blackpill has destroyed me since it support some very depressing and taboo ideas.


That's probably for the better but part of me is comforted by it. Why shouldn't identify myself as an Incel if I fit the description? I guess it has a bad connotation but that sucks considering that incels are generally decent people.
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You feel confortable because it is much easier to drop to the floor, piss your pants and cry blaming everything but you for your misfortune. Incels are generally man-children with no grasp on reality, not decent people.
 
Your past only hinders you because you're blaming it for why you can't have a better life. Not even that... you're using your past as a reason to not even try to create a better life.

You're very good at listing all the reasons why you can't and listing all the things / people that are responsible for how your life turned out.

You have no self confidence, but what have you done to be proud of yourself? You sound like someone that feels entitled to have confidence before taking any action, but confidence is earned... not magically given to you. I'm sure being self critical, wallowing in self pitty with others on an incel forum, hating women, and blaming the past has done wonders for your confidence.

You don't want to open up to others, you don't like women, you aren't willing to see a therapist, and you aren't willing to let go of the past... are you really wondering why you don't have friends, meet women, and aren't improving your life?

So what are you willing to do?

From what I see... all you're willing to do is continue drowning in self pity and scare yourself out of taking any action because it's a lot more simple and certain than the difficulties and uncertainties of creating a better life. It's easier to hate women than it is to find and develop relationships with good women. You realize that not all men are good either right? You know that, but you can't see beyond your own self pity, blame, and fear.

Holding on to your past means comfort and safety from risks and uncertainty. It also means you don't have to do anything other than be self centered, protect, and cope. It means never taking responsibility for your life because it's everything and everyone else's fault. It means you can continue to get better at talking about your shitty past in order to gain attention and sympathy that you'll use to have even more self pity.

You don't have confidence because you haven't worked for it.

Have fun blaming everything and everyone else while not taking any action.
 
Anagram said:
You are scarily accurate about my childhood.
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Then trust me on the other points. You have a lot of strong limiting beliefs that must change if you want to see improvements.

First, you need to measure yourself only by your own standards, not by what magazines are writing and definitely not by what instagram and facebook are showing you; that's the worst measure possible! Quit social media, it doesn't help you at all, on the contrary.

Second, no one outside of your family has any responsibility to care for you, unless they see that you are at least trying to take care of yourself first. Why should anyone care about you if YOU don't care about you? No woman wants to raise someone else's baby, she will want her own baby.

Thirdly, I've thought the same about therapy until I went through it. To me it proved and still proves to be the best investment in myself I have ever done and no group of friends can ever come close. I trust this person so much with all my darkest thoughts, he's the only person that, to me, seems to want the best for me at all times. In your case, I believe severe depression is the correct and accurate term; asking for help is a sign of strength, so please do it.


Here's in short what happened. You didn't have much emotional or direct physical contact (were hugs given freely in your home?) with members of your family. I'd go as far as to speculate that they were not really interested in you picking up a physical sport of any sort nor where they interested in doing physical activity with you outside (like even going for a bike ride on a Sunday), and while you were "a good, quiet kid", deep inside you went neglected for only you know how many years (from age 6 until today). No one was there to validate how you feel, whether bored, sad, frustrated, lonely etc. Your parents were absent. I'm not trying to shift the blame, but I'm trying to point out to you that you were not taught the tools and the skill of how to identify(!) and handle your emotions. I'd go as far as to say that you probably sometimes cannot identify what emotions are behind your anger towards yourself. I'm in the same boat with the emotions, that's why I succumbed to PMO 20+ years ago.

This lack of emotional tool- and skill-set that leaves you incapable of understanding what you feel is the source of your lack of what you call self-esteem. I'd like to rephrase it from self-esteem to self-trust. You don't trust that you can identify correctly what you feel, so better not get involved in situations where feelings are likely to come out, because then you'll not fight, you'll not fly, you'll basically freeze - further killing the trust you have in yourself that you can handle situations in the future. Once you learn to identify and handle your emotions, you'll gather experience trusting that you can accurately navigate your emotional states and that, in turn, will give you the self esteem you so much crave.

You can come back from this situation, but it will be your own work and hopefully that of a therapist, to gently go through what you feel and give yourself the emotional validation you are currently lacking. I genuinely want to ask you to reconsider your beliefs about yourself, therapy and women.
 
Anagram said:
I've been browsing some incel forums everyday. I find that I am able to relate to the people there. That being because we are all virgins who share a variety of issues. However, I find that my mental state has been deteriorating more and more.
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Of course, your mental state will be bad if you spend time in an incel community. The incel movement started with the best intentions but has since emerged into something completely different to what the founded hoped it to be.

Anagram said:
Not only that, but I am at a point where I dislike women to say the least
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Some women are great. In all fairness when I was in my teens I didn't have female friends but in my mid-twenties I made friends with some great women. So maybe you won't meet any time soon but I would encourage you to not become so bitter that you miss out on having a great friendship or even relationship with a woman.
 
You’re getting a lot of good information in this thread.

Some of the words might seem harsh/hard to take but truly we all want to encourage others and help others succeed.

But it’s ultimately up to you.

Your choices: Keep making excuses and end up wasting decades like I (and others) did. Or decide to believe what we’re saying and take action.
 
Dude, how can you be an incel? You're only 19. Incels are guys in their 30's who still haven't gotten laid. Being a virgin at 19 is normal. Get away from that incel nonsense. These guys sit around fantasizing about raping and murdering women and some of them actually do. There's been at least 2 mass shooters who attribute their killings to their incel ideology. It's insane.

I know trying to convince an incel to stop being an incel is like trying to convince someone from al-queda to stop being Muslim but that wont stop me from trying. Your lack of experience with women probably has more to do with your internet/video game addiction than being ugly. While your friends were out getting their first kiss, going on their first date, dancing with girls, etc. you were playing an MMORPG. I'm sure your parents tried to get you off the computer but you wouldn't listen.

Listen dude, you're not the only one who's wasted a serious portion of their life. I too missed out on first kiss, first date, all those milestones because of my drug addiction. It sucks but you can't change the past by wallowing in the filth of a nihilistic ideology like incel. It's just going to bring you down in the present and in the future. You need to surround yourself with rational, life-affirming people not 40 y/o losers who only want to bring people down to their level. That's what losers do. They can't win so they try and bring everybody else down.

Get away from that shit.
 
Anagram said:
The majority of us incels are incels simply because of our appearance. A lot of them including me until recently have simply just given up trying to better ourselves. That being because it's seen as futile since we're genetic trash. I'd suggest researching the blackpill but at the same time I wouldn't. The blackpill has destroyed me since it support some very depressing and taboo ideas.
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In high school I was shy and quiet. My lack of confidence came from dealing with physical and emotional abuse from my father as this is usually known to negatively effect a males confidence. I was kind of overweight which doesnt help but I was attractive. Summer after sophmore year I grew and lost weight so this helped with confidence. Girls were actually intersted in me but in many cases my lack of confidence would kill it.

Conversely, my best friend was this tall, skinny, akward goofy looking bastard. Alot of girls didnt like him and said he was ugly but he had this outgoing funny personality so he would end up winning alot of girls over and some of them were really hot. He would joke around with everyone everywhere we went and it was always well recieved. I had looked way better than him, had a car and dressed better than him but he got more girls than i did. A couple of years of hanging around with him taught me to loosen up and be more outgoing and soon I became more confident so when I went to college I was a different person.

Looks are Important to women but not as important as all those incels make it seem. I looked great and had access to money but it didn't get me anywhere until I became confident and developed my personality. I know guys who are ugly and broke with no job who get more women than men who work for fortune 500 companies because they have game.

Alot of people hate on PUA because those guys are a bunch of douchy chads but alot of them were guys like you who just learned how to present themselves. You can be a different person if you really want to.
 
I apologize to all of you for making excuses and being resistant to advice.

I know it's mainly my fault, I know I shouldn't continue to dwell on negative thoughts, I know all the advice in the world is meaningless if I don't listen.

Elevate, you were quite brutal and blunt. Nonetheless, you made very valid points and have given more motivation to not stay like this.

properWood, thank you for being kind. You are a very understanding person and you are almost psychic with what you were able to derive.

Cool I Can Use Spaces I like you're username but more importantly it's nice knowing you can relate thank you.

I won't make excuses and hold onto the past. I won't visit those sites anymore since they've done nothing but harm. I will try to see the good in woman. I'll be honest therapy is very drastic so I'm still nervous about it.

I guess the only thing left is to stick to my word. Sorry for being a whiny and resistant SOB.
 
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