I had to M but i did not P WTF!?

Discussion in 'Rebooting - Porn Addiction Recovery' started by ChangeofDavid, Nov 22, 2014.

  1. feo1966

    feo1966 Fapstronaut

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    My 2 cents .... you are giving into your reward center when you MO.

    You are no better than a lab rat with electrodes stuck in it's head pushing a lever to stimulate it's reward center .... in order to get your shot of dopamine.

    When you MO .... you are a junky looking for a hit. Plain and simple.
     
  2. MelancholyWeightlifter

    MelancholyWeightlifter Distinguished Fapstronaut

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    So sitting alone having sex with yourself is manly? Who defines what is natural? I'm still here, no girlfriend, no wife, no porn and no masturbation.

    Everyone has their own goals here, but the default Fapstronaut DOES not masturbate. So you have to expect people to advise against masturbation. In the end, NOTHING good comes of masturbation, it is a pointless waste of time and energy. The strength that needs to be developed in order to stop masturbating is tremendous. For most, including me, it was MUCH harder then quitting porn. Finding this strength, this FIRE inside to quit P, M and O is reason enough to quit.
     
  3. Dad

    Dad Fapstronaut

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    I'm feeling like there needs to be some alternatives for guys, there probably are but I haven't found them.

    Tweeby, I think that you should start your own site. You seem to have all the answers for everyone. Thanks so much for your "clarifications".

    Melancholy, thanks for your "realistic" solution of entirely extinguishing sex from the rest of your existence. It's a model that I think so many of us want to follow. There should be a place on the Internet for such a forum.

    IGY, I know that you haven't posted on this thread, but we need your policeing of what is ok to say publicly and what isn't. Maybe a site where you can correct everyone's speak and attitudes would come in handy for all of these "lost boys".

    Who will be the next wet dream deny'er?

    Masturbation is fun. It's satisfying. There is no documented, scientific findings on whether the retention or release of reproductive fluids is healthy or unhealthy. That is a religious question, not a moral one.
    Masturbation can be used as a tool to develop skills for men and women to have better mutually satisfying partnered sex.
    Masturbation can be done without the use of sexual imagery. If you don't believe that, then you have never tried it. Don't let someone else tell you it's not possible if you haven't tried it for yourself.

    Which leads me to the most important point that I want to make.
    One needs to make their own minds up as to how to conduct their own business with their penis or vagina.
    Idea sharing is fine here, I believe that is what this is for.
    If you want to be instructed by another person, in my opinion, you will never find your solution. You will only be doing what some other person told you is right.
    Shame
    Guilt
    Prohibition
    Negativity
    I'm not sure that these are ways to getting to the kind of life that we want for ourselves.

    Trial and error.
    Time and patience.
    Open mindedness and self forgiveness.
    Non judgement and non violence.
    These are approaches that yield lasting results, peace and happiness.

    Check out- Your Brain on Porn/ Solo Energy Circulation Practices
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2014
  4. scotey73

    scotey73 Guest

    I don't disagree with most of what you're saying, but being bitter and sarcastic towards other people on the forum doesn't help anyone, at any time, ever. It doesn't help them, and it really doesn't help yourself. There is a more productive way to make your point! You don't have to hurt anyone in the process!

    My thoughts on this issue come from my own personal experience....I'm choosing not to masturbate because, personally, due to the coolidge effect, I'll eventually need further stimulation to masturbate, whether presently visual or otherwise. In my humble opinion, masturbating will affect MY PERSONAL recovery in a negative way. In no way am I saying that others absolutely shouldn't masturbate, but they should be mindful of how they adapt to masturbating with no visual images/fantasies if they choose to masturbate.
     
  5. Dad

    Dad Fapstronaut

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    Hey Shauncote

    After I wrote my last post, I went and looked at the rules of NoFap. It left me thinking if I was in violation, and then I considered the comments of others that I was responding too. There are a number of us who are guilty of being sarcastic and aggressive on this thread, and throughout this forum continuously.
    A bunch of us have our particular drum beats.
    For me it's hard to read a thread that is a question or concern of vulnerability from a newer or more unsure poster and then hear all of the prejudicial misinformed opinionated "advice", and just let it lay, unaddressed.
    I started out here posting in the most sensitive respectful language that I could muster. If I ever had a serious challenge to another's comments, I would PM them. Most times this turned into a positive exchange of ideas. But still the comments remained in the public forum, creating what in my opinion is the prevailing culture currently on NoFap.
    1) Masturbation is wrong under any circumstances.
    2) Sexuality is catagorical and to be defined by society, not the individual.
    3) Statememts made that are inline with an approach to long term PMO prohibition are the penultimate standard and beyond reproach.

    I have been regularly criticized as being over-reactive when making comments that challenge the above sentiments. While seeing many who post with much harsher tones, but are in agreement with the above sentiments, being encouraged and affirmed.

    Respect on forums like this is a two way street. We have to allow room for disagreement. I have carefully avoided using disparaging terms and name calling when posting, yet I still get called on being inappropriate or out of line. It's easy to be offended by the "way" someone says something to you when you don't like "what" they said.
     
  6. scotey73

    scotey73 Guest

    I do not disagree with you calling people out, or playing devil's advocate, when you are in disagreement with anyone. I mean, in life, it's all about perspective. Giving people different perspectives on any issue is the healthy thing to do. This is one thing that is fucked up about society in general; very many people refuse to see another perspective, or they just dismiss it without giving it any thought. We need people here to give differing perspectives, because what works for one may not work for another. In that respect, I applaud you. You go against the grain when you feel it's necessary, and I respect the hell out of that.

    What I disagreed with is you sarcastically telling certain posters to "start their own websites". I did not, nor do I still see the necessity in doing that when it comes to helping people recover from porn addiction. I apologize to you that I didn't make that clear right away. That, more than anything else you said, rubbed me the wrong way.

    I'm not a moderator here, nor do I try to pretend to know what people should or should not say. In the end, we can probably just agree to disagree on the way we approach issues. Your way has worked for you, my way has worked for me, Tweeby, Melancholy, and IGY's way has worked for them, and we/they can only give opinions based on their own perspective. Can we agree on that?
     
  7. tweeby

    tweeby Banned

    Interesting...

    So when you masturbate 'dad' you don't think of anything. I'm sure the next time I have an MO session I'm going to look at my oak chair that is sitting in the corner of my room, and just as I am about to orgasm think about the wonderful ornate carvings on said chair.

    The truth is, this is a lie. Even if for split second you will think about something sexual, then you have fantasized. This could be at the beginning when you're trying to get hard or right at the end. It doesn't matter. No one is MO's to nothing, and if they SAY they do it will escalate to fantasy. Of course we can never prove this, but this is simply the TRUTH.

    Whatever way you slice it, MO is inherently bad. I mean come on, how many sessions by yourself do you need to figure out what gets you off? So that one goes out the window.

    This is why people have tried to go without porn and just masturbation and have failed. It comes around full circle. They are depleting their life energy, there is no satisfaction, and this is different to having real life shared sex or masturbation with a partner.

    I really don't understand why people don't get this? But as I said to each their own.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2014
  8. Dad

    Dad Fapstronaut

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    I don't want to make any assumptions, Tweeby, about your sexual experience or your own relationship with your body and mind.
    I am not lying when I tell you that I can masturbate using only my own body and it's sensations to become and stay aroused. I have a practice, that I discovered in the past few months with the help of some resources about tantric practices that allow me to do this. I refrain from ejaculating during these times, but I do orgasm. Several times. I only ejaculate now when I am having sex with another person.
    I'm not going to expect 'you' to believe me, but maybe there is someone else out there who might.

    For me the point of masturbation is to enjoy my body and my life and not spend so much time repressing myself.
    At least we are back on the subject of this thread.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2014
  9. IGY

    IGY Guest

    I believe you Dad. But I think for most addicts of PMO, it is quite hard to achieve that, or even imagine the possibility of it.

    As for the thread, I haven't read it, but the phrase "I had to masturbate" is something I can relate to. It is an addiction-related rationalization, but one I have genuinely believed about myself in the past. If people wish to masturbate while rebooting, that is their choice, but I still think it would be good to disabuse themselves of the idea: "I had to masturbate". I believe that everything we do is a choice. We cannot honestly say, "I couldn't help myself", whether than is in respect of masturbation or pornography.
     
  10. tom745

    tom745 Fapstronaut

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    this is a really good discussion and I think the ideas being shared are honest and enlightening. I agree with IGY, addiction-related rationalization, I am a professional rationalizer. I have Probably covered every single excuse to PMO over the 40 years I have been wasting my life doing this. For me, in my personal struggles, if I M then it would just lead to a fall. Every guy is different, so if a guy can M and not fail, it's up to him and his goals. But I would say most of the time overcoming the urge to 'have to M' will be a win and a step to beating this addiction.
     
  11. MelancholyWeightlifter

    MelancholyWeightlifter Distinguished Fapstronaut

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    "I'm glad your here again to tell us all how great masturbating is. Maybe there should be a site for that?" You're contradicting yourself man, let's let all ideas flow freely here.

    Most people here would be detrimentally effected by masturbating, namely because it would lead them back to porn. For some this may not be true. BUT to err on the side of caution, the standard is to advise against masturbation.

    Masturbating CAN be harmful, but is not always. NOT masturbating cannot be harmful. Do you see what I mean here?
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2014
  12. Dad

    Dad Fapstronaut

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    I don't agree MW.
    Respectfully.
    Not masturbating is leading to huge problems for almost everyone who is posting here.
    Of course, we are all making our own decisions. Plus, although it might not seem like it, I respect everyone doing so.

    I am sharing my take on this.
    I still am vehemently against uncontrolled use of porn (there is something soul crushing about looking at that everyday). But experiencing the many pleasurable things about a person's own body, to me, just can't be a bad thing.

    I refer everyone again to the section- Solo Energy Circulation Practices @ Your Brain On Porn
     
  13. ruso

    ruso Fapstronaut

    I don't think what you said here is accurate.

    David, the original poster was just angry at himself for doing it. He didn't experience any physical pain. Apparently he made up his mind and separated the two counters. The pain I have experienced and others have experienced lasts truly temporarily for me it was 1 day. However I had a gf so I was still having orgasms on a somewhat regulated schedule. The theories here are all new.

    What is more accurate to say is "not masturbating" is leading to huge discussions. But not problems.

    What causes HUGE problems is the wet dreams, that's what makes most feel guilty and some relapse, but that is a natural thing that those who experience comes to terms with.
     
  14. MelancholyWeightlifter

    MelancholyWeightlifter Distinguished Fapstronaut

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    Could you explain that further?

    Not even if it is excessive or leads to porn use? I'm not talking morals here.
     
  15. Dad

    Dad Fapstronaut

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    Ruso

    Thanks. I should not have written "huge problems", although I did say almost all. A very common statement or question of nearly everyone here has something to do with the problem of trying to keep themselves from masturbation and/or the problems of dealing with it psychologically after they have.

    What I put forth is a suggestion that maybe many people here could consider that porn, over use of porn, and possibly over use of the Internet are more what they could look at. Let masturbation be a separate issue, one that could also be a problem, but not necessarily.

    When people's first reactions to me making this suggestion, is about the slippery slope to porn use or the impossibility of M without sexual imagery, I just have to ask myself why their objection is so rigid and often so charged.
     
  16. Dad

    Dad Fapstronaut

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    MW

    I'm talking about the measured use of masturbation. I'm not talking about 2hr wank sessions several times per day.
    We can form new habits around our sexual behaviors.
     
  17. tweeby

    tweeby Banned

    I just honestly think "dad's" opinions are misguided more than anything else. He's just coming from a background where his very essence, his sexual desires have been ingrained into his subconscious that they are wrong and sinful.

    I think that's why his expression of discovering your sexual desires with masturbation isn't wrong and can be helpful. But he's applying the wrong solution to the question at hand. Remember this thread isn't about one's sexuality and denying one's sexuality.

    This thread is, after one has accepted their sexuality, to then go on and masturbate with fantasy as 99.9% of people do. And the harmful results they lead to, which are naturally the same as porn.

    As I said before, people start of with a no porn goal allowing themselves to MO. At some point they realise the three are linked.
     
  18. ruso

    ruso Fapstronaut

    Tweeby quite honsetly you are starting a rukus for no reason. If you go ahead and read the post when Dad relapsed after 70 days, he even said himself that once he relapsed to PMO he felt bad and un-energetic. So he is himself saying to Don't start saying that one is right one is wrong. There are members here who have faith, those who are not. I'm not here because it is sinful or wrong to masturabate. This is purely a long term experiment that I want to be a part of (with regards to masturbation) And a QUITTING FOR LIFE thing to quitting porn.

    At this point I'd say until you have gotten to even 90 days, and beyond, all you are doing is stirring the pot without being constructive.
     
  19. IGY

    IGY Guest

    Just noting a point made above, i.e. "A very common statement or question of nearly everyone here has something to do with the problem of trying to keep themselves from masturbation and/or the problems of dealing with it psychologically after they have." But as most people that come to NoFap are addicted to, well... ...fapping, it is only to be expected that it is problematic.

    If this was NoGamble, then "A very common statement or question of nearly everyone here has something to do with the problem of trying to keep themselves from gambling and/or the problems of dealing with it psychologically after they have." If some gambling addicts can have an occasional bet without triggering a gambling binge then they might be able to do so. But I would expect that most would find avoidance necessary to require their neural pathways. Does that make sense?
     
  20. ruso

    ruso Fapstronaut

    Yea this pretty much eloquently without any bias to religion and attitude, sums up this thread.
     

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