I had to M but i did not P WTF!?

Discussion in 'Rebooting - Porn Addiction Recovery' started by ChangeofDavid, Nov 22, 2014.

  1. tweeby

    tweeby Banned

    I'm certainly not starting a rukus for no reason, I'm just presenting some of my reasons as to why Dad might feel so strongly about masturbation... We're free to exchange ideas here aren't we?

    I've not mentioned faith or religion or morality. Personally, these have nothing to do with the topic at hand being discussed. Yes it is true I haven't reached day 90 so I can't comment but how does that make my opinions any less valid?
     
  2. ruso

    ruso Fapstronaut

    Well you were saying it was sinful and wrong... so the vocab let me to think otherwise. I probably had some attitude of my own when I wrote that.
     
  3. tweeby

    tweeby Banned

    No... I said when he was growing up he was taught that his desires were sinful and wrong. Therefore, for practically most of his life he has battled with his sexuality which may be a very apt reason why he has such strong views about masturbation being ok. And if this was a different question, his answers would be very much suitable.

    However, this is a different question being asked, and a different solution is required.

    I personally agree with IGGY, we've all come here presumably because we were 'addicts' and just like a gambler can't restrain himself from the odd flutter, we need to be careful about the odd masturbation session.

    But anyway I digress.
     
  4. beauty

    beauty Fapstronaut

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    You may be correct, there might not be anything inherently wrong with masturbating (I highly doubt there is), but you have to understand that most people on this site have abused masturbation most probably along with pornography. So informing Fapstronauts that masturbation without porn might be okay is not a very wise thing to do. Perhaps it works for you, but most guys and gals on this website are recovering and rebooting. Masturbation will only setback and harm these processes.
     
  5. Dad

    Dad Fapstronaut

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    Woah Tweeby
    For what I read that you have written, you will never understand my sexuality. Notwithstanding, your opinions are as valid as anyone else's no matter how many days are on your counter. You are just plain and simple wrong about my sexual development and attitudes. You know nearly nothing about me, so to make that evaluation is out of line. However, I am not offended, I just wanted to let you know.

    Beauty
    It is very commonly said here, often as a warning, how dangerous it is to suggest that someone here open their possibilities to M. I disagree. This also speaks to IGY's assertions.
    There is not enough discussion about teasing apart porn from masturbation and sex here.
    Let's open that up.
    And try to be objective.
     
  6. beauty

    beauty Fapstronaut

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    Well if a person has been abusing masturbation for X amount of years, using pornography along the way, and they wish to break free of this dependence, after how many days will it be ok to begin masturbating again? I guess that's the question. As most guys and gals have developed a sort of addiction to porn plus masturbation, I can't quite grasp how engaging in casual masturbation without porn is beneficial. If anything, would it not fire the same neural circuits that have been deeply ingrained from PMO? It just doesn't add up. There could be some benefits to masturbating, but overall, everything considered, I don't think it is profitable behaviour to engage in when trying to break a PMO addiction.
     
  7. tweeby

    tweeby Banned


    I do apologise, however, why don't you articulate your sexual development and attitudes.

    I'd be interested in knowing.
     
  8. IGY

    IGY Guest

    I have said before that I am not opposed to masturbation and I will consider doing it sometimes after the end of the year. So, I think Dad is misrepresenting me somewhat (albeit unwittingly).

    The message I give to people is I recommend that they refrain from masturbation and porn during their reboot (for the quickest results). After that, they can decide what they want. But remember, this place is NoFap, not YesFap.
     
  9. Dad

    Dad Fapstronaut

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    IGY
    I agree. I'm talking about after reboots. Which I now have a better concept of than I did two months ago.
     
  10. Dad

    Dad Fapstronaut

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    Long story Tweeby. A lot of it is on my journal in the 40+ section. "Dad' Journal"
     
  11. Dad

    Dad Fapstronaut

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    I'm not saying that this would be easy Beauty.
    But I have some experience that I think could be valuable.
    I think "throwing the baby (M), out with the bath water (PMO)" is unnecessary. I said a little earlier, we can retrain our sexual behavior. Maybe it doesn't always need to include really long hardmode reboots with no plan for failures along the way, and no plan for after, if guys can even figure out when they are ready.
     
  12. ChangeofDavid

    ChangeofDavid Fapstronaut

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    I kind of agree with Dad, and I also agree with Beauty.. Though I kind of agree with everyone. I read all the comments and back and fourths. It was really hard for me to decide what to do.. More then anything I think I was just overly freaked out about the nightmare. I panicked and I didn't fantasize. In fact after 15 days I only had to pain attention to myself and focus on the sensations. Though I am not going to lie, I know I really really wanted to M twice that day, luckily I didn't because of this site. Truthfully I use to think I would only watch P because it was faster than with no reference... Though I prefer to not to M anymore so I don't rationalize with that kind of thought. I in fact think this site has definitely become the first place I go If I have inclement thoughts in my head. I don't plan to M anymore unless I'm having like a anxiety attack which to be honest I think I was. Though by that point I don't think I would need any reference.
     
  13. MelancholyWeightlifter

    MelancholyWeightlifter Distinguished Fapstronaut

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    In the end it is your choice ThechangeofDavid.
     
  14. Vision

    Vision Fapstronaut

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    Yes, choices are up to us, although consequences of those choices are not. (That's why we need to find out which choices are good).
     
  15. Dad

    Dad Fapstronaut

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    So the part of this comment that interests me is that (I think you state) that after 15 days, you were able to have a sexual act (albeit, on your own) that did not involve sexual imagery to any large degree.
    If I'm not mistaken, that's what we are all after here. It seems like a "reboot" to me.
    Don't we all want to get to a state where we are having a sexual experience that is more pure? What we might call "real" sex? Only that which is going on with the "bodies in the room", the actual flesh, not the digital flesh?

    This is what I'm after. "Actual" sexual experience, with a partner or by myself. Sexual sensation, in the moment, without the mind going to other images.
    Thanks to NoFap, we can get away from porn and get our mindless habituated masturbation under control. But then what? Most of us will not sign up for indefinite celibacy, which might be the ultimate solution because it's absolute. It takes the choice out of the matter. There are no what ifs or when's. It just is. Easy to figure out, not easy to do.
    The rest of us are after a healthy sexlife. It includes having porn around us, but being able to say no. It includes getting sexually aroused and then dealing with the choice in front of us in a healthy way. That being a way that "we" as individuals, decide for ourselves.
    It is my opinion that we can participate in masturbation when the time is right. The question always comes up "why?", as if there is nothing good about masturbation.
    My answer- Because it's there.
     
  16. MelancholyWeightlifter

    MelancholyWeightlifter Distinguished Fapstronaut

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    I agree with your philosophy Dad. But not really extending that philosophy to masturbation. Why not keep our sexual experiences to JUST other people? Masturbation still reinforces the attitude that sexuality is directed inward, which I think is wrong! Sex should be about the other person, not ourselves.
     
  17. strangeriser

    strangeriser New Fapstronaut

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    Just a question man. Is it possible to masturbate without having any mental image? Just with a blank mind or something? =S
     
  18. ruso

    ruso Fapstronaut

    When I did last time, I still used mental images of my current gf. It was less sexualized than before, so I don't know. It's up to you. It's up to each of us what we decide/want to do. Look around other threads and re-read everything in this one. As I think mostly of what all was said, was said.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2014
  19. KrmGrn

    KrmGrn Fapstronaut

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    I think it's possible, but it's diffucult for me to imagine. I think the first time I ever masturbated I didn't have any mental image in mind. But soon after I always did.

    My girlfriend says she usually masturbates without thinking about anything. She's also never had any kind of addiction related to it though. So I think it's possible, but I don't think I can do it. At least not any time in the foreseeable future. It's too addictive for me. I wouldn't want to risk it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2014
  20. Dad

    Dad Fapstronaut

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    I've been doing this for several months now. It might help me by virtue of the fact that I am 57 and have had a meditation practice for about five years.
    It is possible, definitely yes.
     

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