I had to M but i did not P WTF!?

Discussion in 'Rebooting - Porn Addiction Recovery' started by ChangeofDavid, Nov 22, 2014.

  1. TeddyBear

    TeddyBear Guest

    There are no right or wrong answers here. Everyone here has their own goals for different reasons. If you've read the YBOP book, the goal is to undo the damage that years of high speed pornography has done to our brains, not eliminate masturbation entirely (although that can be a goal)... to achieve orgasm without artificial visual stimuli flooding all our sensors with dopamine reward. I'm an advocate against masturbation for religious reasons, but I'm not going to deny the health benefits from the occasional MO ... without porn, that is. If you can have healthy, normal MO without any artificial visual stimuli, that is a lot healthier than doing so while watching P. The problem is mostly P due to the immense access to so much P in such a short period of time that high speed internet provides. Our brains are maxed out. This leads to porn-related ED ... meaning one absolutely NEEDS P to get off. They can't even MO without P at all. So if you're abstaining from P for an extended period of time ... and you can MO without P successfully, you are on the right road to recovery.

    Having said all that, the health benefits of sex over self-pleasure are orders of magnitude higher. There are distinct biological processes happening in the body when you have sex as opposed to masturbation.

    I think when we all start out, we should be avoiding P with an iron fist, but for those that want to occasionally MO without P, I don't really see the harm in that if that's their goal. Everything in moderation. It's when we overdo something, it can become an issue. However, P is bad no matter how often or how little you watch it. There have been studies showing that even after abstaining from all forms of PMO for months, just one session of P undid all their progress. So the problem of porn on our neuroplastic brain cannot be understated. It's a real issue ... and we don't begin to see just how severe it is until we stop trying to watch it.

    I'm starting to ramble. My point is ... we're here to support each other ... not attack each other. We all have our own unique goals and motives. And although we might all be here for different reasons, we're all here to support each other. If your goal is no PMO or no P only, we should respect each other's goals and not lash out. Porn addiction ... and abstaining from porn ... is a very new movement that is garnering more research as time goes on ... so there isn't any definite answer to it all because we're all still learning about it. So let's be patient with each other.
  2. MelancholyWeightlifter

    MelancholyWeightlifter Distinguished Fapstronaut

    I just need to stop looking at these threads. I have too much emotionally tied up in this. It's hard for me to be calm. I have the goals I do for religious reasons. Period. No other reason really matters.

    I guess I view masturbation as an enemy. It's hard for almost anyone on here to fathom the amount of pain masturbation just by itself has caused me. The point is, I can't relate to you guys to give you advice on this...
  3. TeddyBear

    TeddyBear Guest

    I'm here for religious reasons too, Mel. Don't get too upset, just take a breather. Focus on you and your goals and don't let anyone else distract you from that because ultimately ... that's all that really matters anyway. This is a very personal matter and we're all here for different reasons. Keep your head up, bro.
  4. MelancholyWeightlifter

    MelancholyWeightlifter Distinguished Fapstronaut

    I appreciate it Fapocalypse. I'm just saying it's kinda pointless for me to post on the threads discussing masturbation whithin NoFap because I can't really answer them well. I give my advice but it's really just my personal view that I think applies to very few here.
  5. Dad

    Dad Fapstronaut

    I respect your personal values MW, like I stated in an earlier post, the stance of indefinite celibacy is clear cut and therefore you don't need to defend it, explain it, or promote it. It just is, and for some people it could be a really satisfying way.
    I like Fapocalypse's emphasis on how important it is for each one of us to be true to our own values and chosen ways. How what we can be doing here is exchanging views and information as we avoid trying to persuade or attack. There are as many ways to do and see things as there are human beings.
    As a participant here, I want to be sensitive to the "mission" here. As I see it, people come here because they have a significant PMO problem. Usually self diagnosed. They want to fix it, and in the process we all find that it is bigger than just fapping to porn, it's about making realizations, making choices and making changes.
    We can all help eachother to be better, but we can do that without trying to satisfy our egos by convincing another to think a certain way. The best that we can do is share what we think and feel, suggest resources to eachother, and express our personal fears, frustrations and successes.
    Most importantly, no matter how we do it, we need to get away and stay away from porn. The whole porn/dopamine dynamic is a trap and a life suck. Creating a healthy outlook on sex needs to put porn in its place, and quite often, for a person who has identified that as a problem, the best direction is to abstain, avoid, and maybe even vilify porn.
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2014
  6. NoBrainer

    NoBrainer Distinguished Fapstronaut

    The values you uphold MW are some of the strongest on this site. Although you may not come across as the most encouraging to people, your advice is very sound! I think you do answer well. :) Your reasons for upholding your values are based on your own personal views.

    For many of us, we are the living proof that a completely successful reboot can only come as the result of complete sexual abstinence. No porn, no masturbation, no edging, no orgasm, no fantasizing, no looking at promiscuous content and regrettably, no sex.

    People have trouble accepting some of these criteria (and fair enough). I believe that it is important for at least some members to uphold these strong values, to maintain the credibility of the nofap site, and to encourage/ help other members. You definitely fit this model Melancholy Weightlifter! :D
  7. Nitram

    Nitram Fapstronaut

    We want to understand and take control over ourselves to feel like our lives have purpose and meaning.
    Human desire is a process,desire is not always sexual it can be hunger or desire for playing a sport, desire to sleep... but without that desire to do something we would not put anything into action.
    Addiction to me is the loss of the control of the desire, or rather when the desire is so strong I can't control the action which follows.

    Regain control and master yourself and then your desires become yours again. No one likes to feel out of control, and unfortunately when we are unable to control other things in our lives, PM,&M almost seems like a choice we are making? like we control when we do this thing? However we come to realize this is not the case and suddenly all that remains is a desire for self control.

    Going cold turkey for any addiction is the best way to get fast results, but not everyone can manage this. It is real hard for some to go without fulling a desire for 24 hours. That is why small goals to regain this self control will pay dividends as time goes on and eventually you find that its been weeks or months or longer before you relapsed.

    If you are trying to stop something, it is not a good idea to dabble. An alcoholic does not keep shandy in the house, nor does a recovering heroine addict keep weed in the house. It is temptation and temptation will win if you have not regained the power over your desires.

    At some point with work, you will have this power back, and if you learn to love yourself without becoming a slave to your desire to do so then it will be OK. That being said, recovered alcoholics tend not to have an occasional beer, most stay dry for good.

    The stimulant maybe different here but the process for desire and the addictive behavior is very similar. We seem to forget we are different people, but at the same time we are all human and part of the same species. We are more alike than we care to admit I feel.
  8. That's good, and I fully agree to yoi. Freedom of PMO is the goal. And let me add: To reach this goal, you need to become a balanced person. A person, who is always relaxed and who can deal with stress.

    In fact, we are often really acting like someone would point a gun to us!
    Stress is totally self-made. Total non-sense. In fact, you can go very calmly through all situations in
    life. Yes, even if it is burning or if someone is point a gun to you!

    Real masters stay cool in all situations. Think of pilot Sully, who landed the airplane into the Hudson River!
  9. Vision

    Vision Fapstronaut

    Reasons agains masturbation do not have to be religion-based. Basically: sexual pleasure is like a glue. What do you glue to?
  10. MelancholyWeightlifter

    MelancholyWeightlifter Distinguished Fapstronaut

    Thank you. I guess I'll just try to help who I can.
  11. Vision

    Vision Fapstronaut

    I agree with the praise of MW!

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