I mean are you even addicted?

Discussion in 'Porn Addiction' started by skaterdrew, Aug 15, 2019.

  1. skaterdrew

    skaterdrew Fapstronaut

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    When you look at drugs like heroin, cocaine, alcohol, generally when someone is addicted to one of these substances they wouldn't usually go a week or few weeks without these substances if they were seriously addicted to them. They would be craving within a few days or even one day. But then when you look at something like PMO which obviously can be addictive, seriously addictive even, some guys will struggle to go a day or week without it. But what about the guys who can go a week or few weeks without it no problem? How addicted even are they to PMO? If even at all?

    The thing with porn that you need to understand is you don't need to be addicted to it to like it. Lets look at a man who lives in a third world country who has never seen porn before, never seen the internet before, and this man has a laptop put in front of him which has porn content. Would it be impossible for this man to like and be turned on from what he was seeing? Considering a lot of the guys on this think the only reason you like porn is because your addicted to it, even though the first time you seen porn you liked it and were extremely aroused by it. You obviously weren't addicted to porn the first time you seen it, yet you really liked it and were extremely aroused by it. So wouldn't it actually be quite normal and natural this man would actually be extremely aroused and turned on by the porn the first time he seen it? My point is you don't need to have any addiction to porn to like it and be extremely aroused by it. A lot of guys on this seem to think once they have 100% rebooted no way they will like porn anymore, they will no longer be turned on by it. It's not true. The behaviour might change, but porn will always have a high potential and probability to be extremely arousing. The behaviour might change though after you have rebooted where your no longer searching it.

    Another big problem with PMO addiction is you naturally have a sex drive, which after eating is your most powerful natural drive, to reproduce. The issue is PMO gets extremely tangled with that natural powerful drive. So just feeling horny could make you want porn, regardless if your addicted to it or not.

    We don't have a natural drive to take heroin, cocaine, alcohol. We do however have a natural powerful drive to reproduce. Porn can easily get tangled with that natural drive.
     
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  2. Jake n Bake

    Jake n Bake Fapstronaut

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    We are still addicted but our usual frequency has changed to once or twice a week. That’s my feeling.
     
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  3. TheGambler

    TheGambler Fapstronaut

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    Excellent point, addiction may be way overblown in general. I see guys posting shit like, 'reduced gray matter in the brain', and 'sexual compulsive disorder'. I wonder if Tiger Woods' ex wife was satisfied with that explanation? You won't get away from the ethical judgements people put on sexual behavior even if its dressed up in professional language.

    Then there's the circle jerk going on in the 12 step programs related to sex. People say I'm sober from this or that, the only reason SAA wasn't a total waste of time was I gained some testosterone from it. Other than that it was homo's and sex offenders trying to tell me what was 'sobriety'.

    If we go back to what Freud said, its just libido that creates a neurosis when it doesn't have a healthy outlet. So most neurotics out there have pent up sexual frustration and it exacerbates their relationship problems overall.
     
  4. Fenix Rising

    Fenix Rising Fapstronaut

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    It all comes down to dopamine rush and oxytocin for me. Porn is no different than drugs in my eyes. I was addicted to Roxanol (Morphine Sulfate Liquid) doctor prescribed me for 2 years and it was very similar experience to my pmo binges. I only needed to take 2-3 drops to elevate my back pain, yet I took six or more to self-medicate my depression and anxiety on regular basis. I did hours long PMO binges for the same reason. When I craved to PMO, I never had procreation or need for human contact on my mind. I only wanted to get dopamine high and analgesic effect that MB and O are able to deliver. First one to lift depression, second to numb my anxiety and negative emotions. It was only when I started addressing my depression/anxiety with other coping mechanisms, cravings for PMO subdued. Social connection and intimacy are basic human needs, homo sapiens is social animal, but porn and MB aren't.

    I can only thank "god" that I have inherited or triggered strong alcohol intolerance at a very young age (drinking only one beer means being sick for days), and chose binge PMO as a method of self-medication instead of drinking for the last two decades. If I wouldn't have genetic condition in which the body can't break down alcohol efficiently, I'd probably end up being hardcore alcoholic instead of a compulsive binge wanker.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
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  5. tIoD

    tIoD Fapstronaut

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    What u say, some of guys can go without porn days or weeks, yes it's true but it's maybe 5-10% of porn users who can just forget about it for a some time, so they are not really addicted to it. But after a long use, 4-5 years, I think at last you will eventually get addicted to it, because it's so skyrocket stimulant for our brain. You just should not watch it, not once a day, not once a month.
    About porn turn on and like about person who is not addicted, or never seen it, or already rebooted. Everyone likes porn, I have been completely off from it almost a year now and sometimes thoughts about porn still hits me, it's like my brain remind me about what pleasure can it give me. Also when I see accidentally NSFW stuff online, that old buzz still comes.
    What a journey, have not been on this forum like 3-4 months. I was a heavy addict to porn, first when I saw that porn addiction is like heroin/cocaine, I said pffff, bullshit. Then when I started to leave it, I understood that it's really heavy, heavy stuff to be addicted on. Maybe withdrawal is not like heroin, I mean body pains, it's more mental and inside a brain.
     
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  6. Lilla_My

    Lilla_My Fapstronaut

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    All substances and behaviours, whether they are from natural sources or not, work on receptors in your cells.

    You have dopamine receptors (cocaine, porn, kleptomania), serotonin receptors (LSD), ephinephrine, cannabinoid receptors (marijuana), muskarin receptors (magic mushrooms), opioid receptors (heroin, morphine) and so forth. All of these receptors are needed for your body to function and all of them can be "hijacked" through "unnatural" behaviours or substances.

    This means, you do not get high from cocaine in itself, you get high from the dopamine, epinephrine and serotonin that cocaine sets free in the brain through blockage of its reuptake. Note that all these substances are perfectly natural and produced in your own body.

    With that in mind, it's easier to comprehend how natural behaviours can be tweaked to be addictive. Porn is designed to give a huge kick normal sex can't compete with. Unnaturally large releases of perfectly natural transmittor substances will cause cerebral changes over time.

    Porn is stimulating for the majority of people; so is heroine, cocaine, weed and cupcakes. Some people just associate massive negativity with the consumption of these vices and never, or rarely, consume them. Together with the right tools and social network to manage their mental states, these people manage to abstain so long that their brains never change enough for addiction to occur.
     
  7. bken

    bken Fapstronaut

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    I had nosebleeds and a nervous breakdown after 2 weeks of abstaining for the first time. Kidney stones after relapses. Pretty sure I was addicted to pmo.
     
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  8. skaterdrew

    skaterdrew Fapstronaut

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    Great post.

    Yeah I do actually have some understanding on how addictions work, how they only happen because they hijack the brains natural rewards. So eating, reproducing, they're natural rewards and seen as good for our survival. So dopamine heavily rises motivating us to do these things again. But these days there is super normal stimulus's, so things like drugs, alcohol, junk food, video games, and of course high speed internet porn. These things can actually raise the dopamine much higher than the natural rewards. So if you become addicted to these things our brain just thinks it's doing it's job and heavily raising dopamine motivating us to go after these things because it thinks it's good for our survival. But it's not good for our survival, it's addiction, and is leading us down a black hole.

    But with porn dopamine would heavily rise the first time you see it, your obviously not addicted to it at this point, as it's the first time you've seen it.

    The thing is addictions like heroin, cocaine, alcohol is if your heavily addicted to them for years then they can kill. PMO doesn't seem to pose the same life threatening health risks. However I do believe it can cause severe mental health problems. But the thing with drugs like heroin, cocaine, alcohol is if you have been addicted to them for years and then manage to get off them, quitting cold turkey, the user will go through a week or few weeks of severe withdrawal, even life threatening withdrawal sometimes, but then after a few weeks or months the ex users life has pretty much transformed, and their life is all round much better.

    With a heavy PMO addict I believe they still can face quite a severe withdrawal, but no where near on the same scale as someone who has been heavily addicted to drugs like heroin, cocaine or alcohol. But the issue is when the PMO addict is through the withdrawal the problem is not over, a lot of the time they are left with these horrendous sexual dysfunctions. These sexual dysfunction seem to be very difficult to fix. I think this is why PMO addiction seems to be so much different from all other addictions. Your off PMO completely for a few weeks, even a few months, yet you are still left with horrendous sexual dysfunctions.
     
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  9. Fenix Rising

    Fenix Rising Fapstronaut

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    If I compare personal withdrawal symptoms after quitting 27 months of Roxanol (Morphine) abuse and 2 decades of mostly daily compulsive MO and PMO binging behaviour:

    Morphine (went through reboot only once):

    Acute withdrawal symptoms I experienced were: fever/cold, sweating like pig, muscle and stomach cramps, vomiting, diarrhea, the worst "flu" you could ever imagine, insomnia, hallucinations, panic attacks -> Started on 2nd day and ended on 10th day of abstinence

    Paws: depression, anxiety, insomnia, fatigue followed by anhedonia (total lost of interest in anything)

    binge PMO (went through these reboots so many times I stopped counting):

    Acute withdrawal symptoms: cold/flu like symptoms (I literally become sick), chronic headache, insomnia, loss of appetite, muscle cramps (much milder than with Morphine withdrawals) -> starts around 7th day into abstinence and lasts for about 2-3 weeks

    Paws: wild mood swings (like being bipolar weeks of euphoria followed by deep depression), panic attacks (so severe my doc rushed me to hospital twice thinking I have had a heart attack- my pulse was hitting +230 bpm), depression, anxiety, insomnia, fatigue, anhedonia

    I'd say acute morphine withdrawals were pure hell, but lasted shorter period than PMO withdrawals. Paws were pretty much the same. Severe depression was the hardest thing with both of them. When I say depression and anxiety I don't mean just feeling blue… I don't even know how to put it in works. You don't sleep for days, at nights you turn and sweat like a pig while thinking how meaningless life is and how you wouldn't mind dying or better not waking up anymore. When you are finally able to fall asleep when other people start going to work, you begin to oversleep till noon or later. Getting out of bed becomes hard. Simple tasks like brushing your teeth, taking a shower are way too difficult to do, you lose apetite and stop eating… You sit in a darkened room doing nothing all day, you turn down all friend's invites because socializing becomes to much of a burden, you gradually stop answering your phone, because just talking to people becomes too hard… I hope you get the picture.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
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  10. skaterdrew

    skaterdrew Fapstronaut

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    I am sure I went through some quite severe PMO withdrawals. I think I went through different stages of this. I just felt really unwell like flu like symptoms, agitation, severe anxiety, mood swings, extreme depression, body aches, and the last thing I remember having was severe migraines.

    The thing is a while back I was managing to stay away from PMo for periods as long as a month and things like that. But the thing is these days even when I relapse on PMO, even when I binge and then stop it again I don't feel like I get any the withdrawal effects, and if I do they're very mild and don't last anywhere near as long. My mental health just seems to be all around way better these days.

    But the thing is the sexual dysfunctions still remain. Don't get me wrong the sexual dysfunctions are much better compared to what they used to be. But yeah sexual dysfunction issues do still remain. In a lot of ways it feels like I am through the withdrawal and severe addiction of PMO. But even though this is the case I do still want PMO sometimes, do still relapse, do still sometimes binge. But like I said the negative effects from it don't seem to be anywhere near as severe as they used to be.
     
  11. Fenix Rising

    Fenix Rising Fapstronaut

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    It's good thing you can relapse and get back on track soon. Maybe that's why withdrawals aren't so bad anymore. I could never do that. Relapse after long abstention always led me to months long daily binge nightmare ending with complete body exhaustion and PIED. That's why I decided to give up MB too. I also have a plan in place in case of a slip. Always packed backpack with 300 bucks in it so I can call my boss, lock the door and go for a 3 day hike the moment I slip to prevent full blown relapse. Thankfully my boss agreed to cover for me if I "disappear" for 3 days no questions asked up to twice a year.
     
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  12. skaterdrew

    skaterdrew Fapstronaut

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    Wow that's really nice of your boss lol

    Yeah usually when I relapse I binge once or twice for maybe around 5 hours, so 1 PMO session lasting hours type thing. But when alcohol is involved and I am hungover I do literally PMO the entire day if I have a hangover, and sometimes this does last like 2 days. But yeah usually after a relapse or binge I stay off it again for a week or few weeks.

    Recently though I have noticed that I am going back to it quicker than I used to. I think with feel less negative effects from it could be causing me to go back to it quicker?
     
  13. It's because of the commandments God gave me that I was able to grow out of my addiction. And it gives me insight in why I feel so terrible sfter I gave in.
    Was I addicted?
    For sure I was enslaved to that particular sin.
     
  14. Advocate109

    Advocate109 Fapstronaut

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    A lot of people are on here for religious reasons or redundant reasons. But a lot of us use porn as a compulsion to check our sexual identity or similar things. I have HOCD so porn is almost always a check for me.
     
  15. SirErnest

    SirErnest Fapstronaut
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    Great little thread, chaps.
    I used to use marijuana a lot, and have done a fair amount of other drugs, but now only booze.
    Wanking and/or porn doesn't feel the same overall, but I do note that I started this wanking game at about 13, whereas the booze etc was much later. In short, the genetic/breeding thing is pretty huge, and I think that drugs and booze are a different thing.
     
  16. Fenix Rising

    Fenix Rising Fapstronaut

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    I don't now. It could be or it's behaviour progression. I've noticed that I can't do anything highly dopamine rewarding in moderation. I even stopped buying chocolate because of it. Just can't stop eating it until I feel sick in my stomach.
     
  17. Advocate109

    Advocate109 Fapstronaut

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    A lot of people are here because they are no longer aroused by vanilla porn and it has affected their sex lives, not because they are turned on by it, but because theyre not.
     
  18. skaterdrew

    skaterdrew Fapstronaut

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    Yeah I can actually be quite similar. Actually usually I am either living really healthy or really unhealthy. So when I am living healthy I'm not using PMO, not using alcohol, not eating junk food, doing intermittent fasting, and exercising. When I am living unhealthy I am drinking a lot of alcohol, eating a lot of junk food, not fasting, not exercising, and of course PMO binging. It seems to be one or the other with me.

    But I don't usually live unhealthy for too long, maybe 1 or 2 days, 3 days max. Then I am living healthy usually for at least a few weeks.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
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  19. skaterdrew

    skaterdrew Fapstronaut

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    Ironically vanilla porn is the most thing that turns me on lol. It's quite strange.
     
  20. Enwar

    Enwar Fapstronaut

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    Not every addiction has a withdrawal effect.
     

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