I Still Don't Get It

Discussion in 'Rebooting in a Relationship' started by Fighting Axeman, Apr 20, 2018.

  1. Fighting Axeman

    Fighting Axeman Fapstronaut

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    Yay for me for watching a show that had sex scenes and I didn't M or go looking for more (sarcasm). So what if I am doing better in not being triggered, what do my actions say to my SO? I have created such a selfish mindset that I'm all looking at me for how much work I have done. Right there see all the "I's" speaks of my heart and mind. There is this other wonderful, awesome person in my life that has been dragged into this shit storm, not of her free will. Yes, progress has been made but do I consider my SO and how she is healing from my destruction in her life? No, I didn't.

    Relapse isn't just about me but it's also about how my behaviors affect my SO and how she would see it through her eyes. If I fail to protect her and her heart then I have relapsed. What got us into this pit was a selfish pride and a self-centered heart. I start over again today in breaking down my heart and mind and to open my eyes to her heart and mind.
     
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  2. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    These "i's" ARE selfish.
    This is typical behavior of "look at how well I'm doing, please come pat me on the head."
    Um, no.
    Dude..
    There is so much to say to this.... But you aren't in a place to hear it with this passive aggressive post against your SO.
     
  3. Fighting Axeman

    Fighting Axeman Fapstronaut

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    This is the reason why I posted because I don't get it. If you see something that I'm failing to see please show me my blindness.
     
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  4. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    Well for starters, the sarcasm, while directed publicly, is rude to your SOs situation. It's called betrayal trauma.
    And even if you weren't triggered.. Your brain is still recovering. It still took the dopamine hit and it still crashed (which is apparent by your anger in this post)
    Please brush up on what is going on with your body and brain.
    Reboot isn't just abstinence from porn.. It's a lifestyle change.
    I have resources in my signature and so does @AnonymousAnnaXOXO. Maybe read up on them?
    To see exactly how much is going to impact your life.
    It's good your reaching out... How you did it could use some improvements.
    Please feel free to ask any questions, we are here to help.
     
  5. Queen_Of_Hearts_13

    Queen_Of_Hearts_13 Fapstronaut

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    Yeah check out my signature with resources. Also some couples agree to no tv with nudity/sex scenes (some forever and some just for a period of time) maybe consider that as part of rebooting?
     
  6. Fighting Axeman

    Fighting Axeman Fapstronaut

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    Thank you for your help, I will read the links you provided and be more sensitive to how I post.
     
  7. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Fapstronaut

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    As far as Betrayal Trauma goes, if you get nothing else, get this: every time you relapse, you throw your wife off that cliff. She starts to feel safe and then bam, you throw her off again. It happens over and over and over again. Watch the first video to see what I mean.






    As far as not getting it in regards to PMO, until you decide that every form of porn is not okay, i.e. sex scenes in movies/TV, you will continue to fail. It might not be porn, per se, but anything that serves the purpose to get the dopamine going in your brain serves as a porn substitute, or p-sub, as we call it here on NoFap. And when you blow it off, you are gas lighting your wife and fooling yourself.
     
  8. Torn

    Torn Fapstronaut

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    YES, this. ^^^
     
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  9. RunningFree

    RunningFree Fapstronaut

    Yes, I agree with you @EyesWideOpen. It's coming to terms that all forms of "porn" are not okay. I say images, as in a broad sense any image that provides the dopamine hit should be avoided, ANY image. I did not get this at first, and in my faulty wiring I was able to differentiate, i.e. justify, the difference between "porn" and "non-porn". Once I acknowledged this, understood this, accepted this, and believed this (as I fully believe), it help me tremendously. It took time and dedicated work to get to that point.

    One of the other points of advice I like, and I think it is understated on this site as a whole, @Kenzi hits right on spot.
    I advise taking the time to read up on this. If you need some other forms of reading, look at Dr. Patrick Carnes workbooks. They are fantastic tools, if the necessary time and genuine effort to read and complete the exercises are given. I have read the first workbook many times, and am now in the second workbook.
     
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  10. BetrayedMermaid

    BetrayedMermaid Fapstronaut

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    I’m Fighting Axeman’s SO....That first video with the guy and his girlfriend on the cliff- triggered me so hard- I had to stop watching for now- and I’m crying again- and I’M NOT AFRAID OF HEIGHTS... thanks EyesWideOpen for trying to help him “Get it”.
     
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  11. BetrayedMermaid

    BetrayedMermaid Fapstronaut

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    Thanks Kenzi. This is my husband.
     
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  12. BetrayedMermaid

    BetrayedMermaid Fapstronaut

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    Also- it really pisses me off that the audience is laughing in the background right after he shows them this video.. There is absolutely nothing funny about him pushing her off the cliff. Absolutely nothing.
     
  13. I just watched that first video -- going to watch the second now -- he mentions a New York Times article 'Great Betrayals' -- here is the link: https://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/opinion/sunday/great-betrayals.html

    Also, I recommend that all PA's in a relationship watch the first video above .. it's only 45 minutes, and it's a very sobering reminder of what our SO's go through.

    In his last slide, he talks about responding to Betrayal Trauma -- it's definitely worth listening to the whole video, but here are my notes and key takeaways from that section.

    Responding to Betrayal Trauma
    (context is for the betrayer OR a close friend/family member of the SO trying to support them)

    * Emotional First Aid
    *** letting her have emotional validation; letting her know she is not crazy; letting her share and express and feel without editing / without giving a bunch of advice
    *** it's about presence, making room for the betrayed, you're not alone, listening, saying "I'm here with you / for you"
    *** it's rare to have people in our lives that are just going to let it be about what the betrayed is feeling in the moment
    *** you have to be able to sit with a lot of discomfort, to hear things that you might disagree with

    * Physical Care
    *** the betrayed needs to figure out what to say No to and what to say Yes to when it comes to their body
    *** say Yes to more naps
    *** decrease the physical stress on their bodies

    * Grief/Loss
    *** validate this as a loss--a lot like death
    *** it's not about "getting over something" .. it's about integrating this new information into the life moving forward
    *** don't rush through their grief and loss process

    * Forgiveness vs. Trust
    *** forgiveness is releasing the person to God; trust is about rebuilding the relationship
    *** trust takes a long time; trust takes WAY longer
    *** trust is earned back

    * Friend of the marriage
    ** stay neutral; stay a friend of the marriage
     
  14. Wade W. Wilson

    Wade W. Wilson Fapstronaut

    To me, my wife's healing matters very much and I do want to hear what she thinks and feels. Same goes for my wife, she is my AP and we both agree that it was the best decision we ever made. I tell her everything and she tells me how she feels and we work things out. At first it was hard to share with her everything and at the same time it was hard for her to hear what I say, my urges and triggers, but she learned not to just fester but tell me how she feels and what she thinks. My wife has minimum boundaries for me and that's because she wants me to learn to control my urges on my own and not her controlling me, and I want learn to control them. Because we had been talking everyday since I started this recovery, we both feel so much better about oursleves, our intimacy and communication is better than ever, at this point we both truly happy, and as long as keep being honest with each other I believe we will stay that way. Of course I still have bumps here and there, I'm not that far into my recovery, but we both agree without us talking every night this wouldn't be possible. Plus because I am honest with her and tell her everything she doesn't have to wonder if I'm doing something wrong. By now I've learned that she knows if I'm lying to her or not.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2018
  15. BetrayedMermaid

    BetrayedMermaid Fapstronaut

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    It’s hard to hear the urges and temptations but I want him to stay accountable and sometimes I feel like I’d be the best one for the job but it really does traumatize me- I just ask him to tell me when I’m ready and can handle it- not in the middle of me caring for patients.
     
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  16. Fighting Axeman

    Fighting Axeman Fapstronaut

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    I have learned that when I relapsed I was using psub's. I was in denial that it was porn to me because it wasn't a porn site. I have been desensitized by my addiction that my activity was okay technically. I was still getting the same physical and mental reactions from my psub's as if I were watching porn. With the help of my counselor, I defined porn as any nudity outside of marriage. Now following my relapse plan of not going to porn sites with my definition I have created guardrails to keep me on the road and out of the weeds. This will help me see through my SO's eyes and understand what she is experiencing so I can protect her heart and soul. I will get it.

    Here is a text I sent her the other day -

    You lay broken and ripped apart by me. You are innocent in all of this and yet you are the most damaged. I see you bleeding out and pieces of your heart and soul laying about next to you on the floor. You are in agonizing pain and screaming for this nightmare to stop. Your greatest fear is kneeling next to you and I see in your eyes that you are scared of this man who blew your life apart. How do I help, what do I say or will my mere presence hinder your healing? So I kneel next to you in silence listening to your screams and seeing your body writhe in anguish. Hearing your needs trying to understand what I have done to you. May you heal, your spirit soar again, your mermaid to love and laugh in complete happiness and to enjoy the beauty of you.
     
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  17. Jagliana

    Jagliana Fapstronaut

    I'm his wife :)
     
  18. Torn

    Torn Fapstronaut

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    My PA partner went through the same realization with psubs. He had to get specific with his definition so he didn't find loopholes. For him, porn includes images (not just videos because that was one of his loopholes) including swimsuit, lingerie and risqué pics, not just nudity. He stopped looking at music album art on his phone. He also stopped watching the morning weather channels that had attractive female meteorologists he was checking out. There were so many loopholes he had to close.

    Your text to your wife sounds very grim. I get it. It is a grim situation, this pain she's feeling and you feeling paralyzed, not knowing how to help her. This reminds me of how things used to play out with my partner when he was earlier in his recovery. I would be in so much pain, some of the most tortuous emotional pain I've ever felt -- because of his actions -- and he would just freeze up. He reminded me of a stone statue, not talking, not changing his expression, not reaching out to comfort or hold me or even hold my hand. That made my pain so much worse. I wondered, "Who IS this man??? Where is his empathy????" It put me in such a dark place. To me, it seemed like he just didn't care, however, I learned in couples therapy that's what he did when he felt difficult emotions like the sadness he was in fact feeling under that stony surface. He learned that coping mechanism in childhood. He didn't know what else to do or how to help. He's learned since then to be not just physically accessible but also responsive. There is an acronym for it: ARE (Accessible, Responsive, Engaged). I'll try to find the video we watched that really drove home how important this is in a relationship.

    I hope you both find peace.
     
  19. Fighting Axeman

    Fighting Axeman Fapstronaut

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    Still learning how selfish I am when it comes to answering questions from my SO. My excuse is that I want to protect her from the details but the truth is I’m afraid of her reaction. She’s a grown strong woman who can handle herself quite well. I need to respect her and what she is willing to absorb from my betrayal.
     
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  20. BetrayedMermaid

    BetrayedMermaid Fapstronaut

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    yep. I can handle what I ask for. am I really that scary with my reactions?...
     

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